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Todays Young Persons ..Remarkable

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Michael Soldan

Well-known Member
I read Larry's experience with a young person at the auction food booth. Larry and I and most of you grew up in a different environment. I
had to learn multiplication tables,Math facts, Grammar and Geography,cursive writing and Spelling. My 13 year old granddaughter couldn't
sign a bond her Nanny gave her, she doesn't write in cursive. I spouted off and my son who is a high school teacher gave me some pretty
good explanations. These kids live in an electronic age where information of any kind is instant and available. They are capable of skills
with computers and iPads that I couldn't begin to duplicate,not evern with a manual. They can get a flash crowd instantly,find any info
instantly and spread it in a heartbeat. I told my son that my signature in cursive was my bond to any deal,bank,credit card,document or
legal matter..he looked at me and said her "Password" does all that, she doesn't need to sign for any of that. I think teenagers today are
just as smart, just as capable as in any generation but their media is different than in our day..why memorize the Periodic Table when you
can have it in you hands in a nanosecond ? Mathematical situations are calculated in a nanosecond..no need to learn multiplication
tables...its just a different world than what we grew up in ! When I'm working a job some of the young guys will be looking at ordering
some material and I'll figure it out in my head and tell them how many board feet, they get out their I Phone and check..how'd you do it??
It doesn't matter how its done. Todays young people are far more capable that our generation, using a different Media. Once in Ontario
students had to pass a grade 8 Departmental Math exam from the Government, I looked at the 1948 exam and I couldn't answer half of it. Yes
its a different age where information is instantaneous at your finger tips..thats one of the differences!
 
What happens if all of a sudden the satellites or communication source is turned off or fails? Another problem I see is this generation doesn't have social skills like we have,have you seen them setting around on their phones or I-pads in a booth and not talking to each other in a group setting like I have? There are a lot of plus'es but also a lot of negatives in this new instant media that we are witnessing,I don't agree that they are smarter by any stretch of the imagination,it's going to show in the future and it may not be pretty.Just my opinion.
 
Your right there . A woman mentioned to me that her lemon merange pie was runny . I'm no cook but grab the smart phone went to Internet and the answer was cornstarch. She tried it and it worked. I'm still hoping for a sample.
 
Yup. That goes on to use it or loose it too. I learned to write in cursive in the early 60s,just like everybody else. In Junior High,in the days of mimeograph,the science teacher wrote a final exam and ran off some copies,but didn't run enough. He needed somebody to hand print the whole test again and I got volunteered to do it. After printing that whole exam,I got pretty good at it.
Fast forward to when I hauled bulk milk just out of high school and had to sign weight slips about 20 times a day. I learned to scribble something that passed as a signature in a hurry. Today,I can't write cursive at all. I've tried,my hands just won't do it.
When I changed banks 35 years ago,the bank president called me in to his office and asked me what that was that I was putting in the signature line on checks? He asked me if I could try a little harder. It still makes people look real hard at my checks when I write one if they don't know me. I've even been asked "Is that legal?".
As far as doing math,I used to keep all my books in farm account books and I did my own taxes. I always did the math in my head,then checked it with a calculator. Now I do math with a calculator and just look at it with a little common sense and ask myself if it looks like it might be close.
 
Mike Groom, I agree with you. I remember being at the local Walmart during a thunder storm when the power went out. All the cashiers were standing around, can't do anything until our computers come back up. I honestly believe one day the computers and all the other electronic conveniences are going to be the downfall of our civilization. Just my 2 cents!
 
Yes, this modern age may be all well and good, but just how ignorant are they all going to be when their battery is dead in their cell phone or the government decides to turn off the internet or shut down the power plants?
 
What happens is everything shuts down!!!! Out fits like the amish or survival people do ok!!!
 
Lots of good comments here. And I agree with "what happens when the computer is down?" But I'm kind of wondering if my great grandparents thought, "We'll always need good horsemanship. What if the car (or tractor) is broken, or we can't get parts or gas?"
 
While young people may be taught printing and using a calculator the main problem I see with youngsters is common sense.
They can give you the answer to any question you may have with their smart phone. They can do their job well because they have been taught how.

But get them off their normal beaten path where some reasoning and thinking threw a problem is involved and they are dumbfounded.
 
" no need to learn multiplication tables" Better keep those devices glued to you if you can't multiply. So if they have no electronics they have no brains.
 
Your son is only partly correct. The youth of today do "know" an amazing amount of stuff. The trouble is very few have creative thinking skills anymore. They are all taught "group think" and do not do well if they can't text twenty friends or "surf the net" to figure out stuff.
 
One of my favorite gags on the Simpsons was when Bart's teacher told the class 'OK class, take out your calculators. We're going to do some math. Who can tell me what 2+2 equals?'. Millhouse throws his hand up and says 'Ooo, ooo, Low Battery?'.
 
It's true that we have quick access to much info these days. The problem is who controls that access.

The "choices" when you use a computer program or app were already made and limited by whomever controls the programming. As other posts are getting at you don't have to think, only select from what is presented.

Consider how much of our wealth exists only as digits in a computer program and then think about the last time you dropped you phone and it quit working or your PC crashed. We put a lot of faith in financial institutions and our government to have adequate backup and be honest. I'm not a prepper or conspiracy type but sometimes I wonder about our current setup.
 
I would hope that if the government decided to turn off the internet or shut down the power stations that the young people would rise up and overthrow the corrupt government if we older ones don't do it first.
 
Another thought along these lines. How many adults do you know now that couldn't find their way out of a paper bag without a GPS? Nobody can read a Road Map or Atlas anymore. We constantly have truckers lost on our little country road because the GPS routed them the wrong way and they cant get turned around. Tow truck operators love them.
 
I too think that this basic lack of fundamental math will bite them in the long run. I don't think most of us realize how often we calculate in our head. Tractor oil change takes 6 quarts, 4 on the shelf, how many more quarts do I need to buy before I start the job? Do I really need a calculator for that.
or...

Fertilizer is $400 a ton. so at 200 lb per acre, a ton will cover how many acres? So my 10 acre field will cost? If the fertilizer is 46-0-0, so how much a actual nitrogen will go on each acre.

I want to give each kid at the party 2 cup cakes, 17 kids are coming...how many cupcakes do I need?

If I had to pull out a calculator to do that basic stuff I would be ashamed of my lack of basic intellect....and the most basic decisions of life would be so slow and oh so tedious.
 
I wish when I was in school the math teacher would have let us use calculators. We had to show every step on paper. Even if you just added two numbers together. You had to show how you did it on paper. If you didn't show one step it was wrong.

The teacher didn't want us using calculators at home. Your assignment had to be turned in at the end of class. Any problem not finished was wrong. I would have finished a lot more of the assignment if I could have used a calculator.

I remember the teacher telling us we wouldn't have a calculator in our pocket when we needed one. Now everyone has a cell phone with a calculator in that teacher!
 
Just think of what will happen if and when things hit the fan and we have to go with out power and other such things for a while. The kids of now days will be lost and will not know how to do the simple things in life to live and stay alive
 
"The meek shall inherit the Earth".
If your scenario ever comes true,the Amish will rule the world. LOL
 
For all the people that think the laws of the country should reflect their own personal religious beliefs,
I wonder if they would feel the same if the Amish had a majority and outlawed our cars, trucks and electricity?
 
You are showing how little you know about the Amish as a group. First off they would not outlaw anything. They only have rules that their congregations live by. Even they do not have to live by them and can leave the local "church" an join another Amish group or become Mennonites.

As for a country made up of entirely Amish. I think it would be as good or better than what we have today. I would much rather have an Amish as a neighbor than most "English".

As for old's original post. Many would not know how to live with out modern conveniences.
 
Ya,everything Amish is local. There's no hierarchy in the Amish Church. There's no Amish Pope. The local Bishops are the last word. What they say is what goes in that community. Nobody can appeal to a higher authority in the church. The next community over can have a totally different set of rules or standards. Bishops are chosen by lottery. They don't ascend to the position.
We have one sect of Mennonites here that are horse and buggy,and an Amish community that drives cars.
 
You missed my point! The Amish, as I understand them. would not try to jam their personal beliefs down my throat.
I just wish I could say the same for other religious groups.
 
I'm not sure I agree with you on this. The good kids of today are as good as any, ever, and the knot heads are the same as they ever were. The ones in the middle have a tough pull, because the jobs that used to need them and were willing to give them some training and education and a living wage in exchange for an honest day's work have all disappeared. As always and ever was, the kids are mostly a reflection of the adults in their lives, and whether they're being taught cursive has approximately nothing to do with anything.
 
Hay hay hay- Didn't a few of them get convicted for chopping the beards off of some other members?
 
You're absolutely right! This new Generation was born with a computer in their hands. They want balance between work & life, and like I stated in a later post, it's more about the experience than the material possessions of life. They see no walls, lines or barriers between people. More are either Agnostic or Atheist than prior Generations, don't have a drivers license, own a vehicle, or a home or property, nor do they care to. Need to go somewhere? Just Uber it. Why be burdened with home ownership, maintenance, repairs, insurance & taxes? I won't get into Politics...
 
Fast forward to 20 years AFTER the mass EMP from solar flares wipe out internet, most chip processors. The Amish and Mennonite salvage crew with the horse drawn wagon comes to the old state capital and major university town- (Madison, wisconsin as example) center of old city core, goes door to door and finds a internet caf?. a Dozen tables with wires from crumbled server tower, 2 chairs each table holding skeletons staring at blank screens on what was laptop, tablet or little smart phone. Salvage crew gets what is practical- the furniture, some eating utensils and coffee cups. The final disposition of the skeletons is debated- enough room left to take back to compost heap- use as source of bone meal, then use on garden, fields so the internet addicts will amount to a hill of beans? Or leave them to the Ho-Chunk when they come down town on full moon nights to use as 'bone fire' material when the celebrate the end of 'White' power structure, politicians? Maybe something John Carpenter would have made a movie about?
RN
 
I've got Amish they know there not welcome . I've learned to be careful around them. As far as technology they would be as bad off as the rest of the country there very dependent on fuels to get around sure they don't have cars but they don't mind riding in them also there heavily into the use of silos and that takes blowers and fuel. Also take a look at what runs there shops. They love to use sprays and that takes technology.
 
One of the best statements about life I ever heard came from an Amish. He said "We don't want to be unhandy people,we just don't want to be slaves to technology". They use what they have to and nothing more. What's wrong with that?
 
I like your post JD I have lived in an Amish home and traveled with them. I had a very close Amish friend and when him and his wife got sort of retired they would go to Fl. with me and stay at my Fl. home. Before he died he bought a home down in Pine Craft as there are a lot of Amish that winter there. Yes I also would rather have one of them for a neighbor. When I lived in Intercourse Pa. I spent a lot of time with the Amish. They used to have me drive them around as I always had a car and a pickup along with a Roll Back truck as I always jockeyed some. Yes I always enjoyed the Amish . I also know the down sides as well. LOL I am retired now and live in Fl. full time but I still have a lot of Amish friends in Lancaster County Pa. I also have some Amish friends in Ohio and In. and Ia. ...Jack
 
Where do you find a paper map anymore??? I do have but don't really trust a GPS, especially in rural areas. So I also carry a map, but they are becoming extremely difficult to find.
 
Have a neighbor that is an EX-marine and doesn't know how to take care of his own property. This is his 2nd year in the house and he doesn't even know how to pull a weed. However, they put up a FOR SALE sign in the front yard yesterday. Hope we get some good neighbors when it sells.
 
I'm finding a lot of the posts here very ironic... very anti technology, and posted on an INTERNET forum!!!! It is Mother's Day, a family day, and many here are posting about "kid's today." Not with them, or guiding them, but in front of their computer posting to strangers.
 
IF you think the Amish are so great, come to SW Wisconsin and take all of them back with you. People around here are fed up with 98% of them. They redefine being a hypocrite. Even there religion is cult like. A great share of them are on food stamps. They also pay nothing for wear and damage done to roads or pay property tax. Most farm supply/feed stores around here hate them, they think the world revolves around them. If you want them you can have all of them
 
Stuart: Your uninformed about what taxes they pay and those they do not. The only tax they do not pay, that you do, is Social Security. They opt out when they officially join their Church when they turn eighteen. Anyone can do that as well but you only get to do it one way forever. No disability or joining later.

As for them being on food stamps that is a news to me. I personally know over twenty Amish families and the ones I know are much more self reliant than the "English" that live around them.

I also do not see how they tear up the road anymore than a 80,000 lbs semi load of grain or the farmer pulling a 750 bushel wagon that sets on four tires, down the road.
 
AAA still has them. Also, when I travel my first stop as I enter a state is at the DOT Welcome Center. You can get a real map and it is often the most recent. Then I'm set to travel the blue highways.
 
You don"t find maps and atlases at gas stations, convenience stores, truck stops, etc???? Anywhere across the Country.
 
Greg You must have a lot of time to be busting my chops tonight!!!!

Here is what I found in your article:

IRS Form 4361, which is the Application for Exemption From Self-Employment Tax for Use by Minister, Members of Religious Orders and Christian Science Practitioners.

I would guess that the Amish are considered a "religious order". The term "religious order" could be pretty widely stretched.

So I would guess my error is in stating that anyone can opt out. While this is an error but not as it relates to the facts about Stuart's comment. The Amish just do not pay SS under the "Religious Order" exemption. They do pay all other taxes including property taxes and income tax. Now keep in mind the term Amish can differ widely across the country as there is not any type of National Amish organization. So how one group/Church lives can be very different in one area compared to others.
 
JD Seller- I'm sorry if you think "I'm busting your chops".

My problem is when people post misinformation like you did....

You stated "Anyone can do that as well but you only get to do it one way forever......."


You are wrong! There are guidelines and rules you must meet.

You just can't say....Shucks, I don't want to pay into SS anymore. I Object!.

It don't happen like that.
 
Hay hay hay:

"I want to give each kid at the party 2 cup cakes, 17 kids are coming...how many cupcakes do I need?"

36

2 x 17 = 34

And you're going to want a couple of cup cakes also.

Therefore 36 - besides, it's easier to purchase 3 dozen (36) than it would be to purchase 2 dozen and a partial dozen.

LOL

:>)
 
Lot of bickering over nothing here.

What happens when it all goes down? It hasn't yet but mankind in general is pretty sharp. We'll get through it till everything is back up.

Power goes out while you are shopping? They can't make a sale anyway as most larger stores are running inventory control on Point Of Sale registers today. Every item scanned at the check out is automatically reduced from the store inventory. So they are not going to sell you anything anyway.

Some places like Wal Mart has a system in place that as soon as a trans action is complete sends that information to corporate HQ which then item by item sends that info to the regional warehouse. The computer at the warehouse adds the items sold to a pick list for that store. At a certain time the list is filled and workers pack boxes with the items sold for that day and when the truck goes out it has the items needed to replenish the inventory. System like that also allow a store to track sales so they can determine what items they should carry and what isn't selling. So as I said it's store policy that no sales take place when they can't used the POS system. That has nothing to do if a kid can't add or figure taxes.

I have a son in law who is an electrical engineer for Rockwell. I tease him about slide rules and gave him one for Christmas a couple of years ago as a joke. When he was still in college and dating my daughter he showed me the pocket calculator he had to have for school. The thing is amazing!

You guys can complain all you want to about the modern age but if you own a smart phone you actually have a computer in your pocket! I can do math, scan an item in a store and have it tell me if there is a better deal elsewhere, get directions or watch a movie all with this little device in my pocket.

Because most of the systems being used today by the government you can bet that should everything go down it will not be down for long.

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 21:22:10 05/08/16) IF you think the Amish are so great, come to SW Wisconsin and take all of them back with you. People around here are fed up with 98% of them. They redefine being a hypocrite. Even there religion is cult like. A great share of them are on food stamps. They also pay nothing for wear and damage done to roads or pay property tax. Most farm supply/feed stores around here hate them, they think the world revolves around them. If you want them you can have all of them
Click to expand...

If it wasn't for the Amish around me the feed stores would close. They pay property and school taxes same as we do. None are on food stamps. OTOH, there is plenty of welfare trash driving nicer cars than we do, paying no taxes, living off the tax payer. Maybe things are like you say in your area, but not everywhere.
 
The big disadvantage to being totally dependent on technology is that it requires one to be in constant touch with it. Not that it is either right or wrong. When you are totally dependent on technology, it hampers your ability to think independently.
Some skills are just not adaptable to the internet. The internet cannot teach you how to aim that rifle at that varmint that is eating your corn. Nor can it teach you how to keep a straight furrow. Some things simply need to be learned by either teaching or from example and practice.
I would rather not be a slave to a smart phone to carry out day to day living.
 
When looking at a map, if you make a turn, my grandma will turn the map as well.
AAA
Their directions they print out turn the map every which way.
And get my dad and sister lost trying to find the apartment she was moving into for grad school. I found the complex on yahoo maps, verified it with the satellite images, and wrote them directions that had half the number of turns off the interstate. NOPE! Gotta use triple a!.....

Truck stops have a couple choices of maps and some pretty nice large scale ones. Wal-Mart even has maps. That's where I picked up my Nebraska atlas and gazeteer. Usually found back with the books and magazines. They even carry the standard Rand McNally that has all the Wal-Mart store locations marketing it.

If you get a trucker's atlas, it has a lot more points of interest marked in it than a regular atlas. Why, when you can't get a truck into them???
 
I like the new technology but what worries me more than anything else is the possibility of a corrupt government controlling what is allowed over the internet. Look at North Korea.
 
We wouldn't be having this world wide internet conversation if it wasn't for teblets, smart phones, laptop and desktop computers. When I plant corn I know how accurately every kernel is planted because of a computerized monitor. The monitor creates a map of what ground has been planted and what has not been planted and what the population is in every row. I can watch the screens because the tractor is steering itself, done by computer with satellite guidance. I can spray herbicides very accurately because of a computer controlled monitor and GPs guidance. No more are the long one row gaps in my fields from a unit not planting without me knowing it. Herbicides and fertilizers are not doubled up and there are no gaps without herbicide or fertilizer. In my book computers are a godsend.
 
Lets look at the other side of the coin. I'm assuming most of you grew up in the cold war generation. What if instead of inventing the internet, networked supply chains, automated assembly lines, new round up ready corn, and other high yield crops, you all spent your time digging underground bunkers, stockpiling food, and training for the inevitable Russian invasion? Our world would look completely different today, and as a society we would be 10-20 years behind our current technological level. Which means you wouldn't have this discussion board to post on.

Same goes today, I'm a 20 something, and if my generation spent their time prepping for the "inevitable" EMP blast, or hostile government takeover, we wouldn't have new reusable rockets which cut the cost of space travel dramatically, we wouldn't be pioneering "green" energy sources (thats another topic for another day), we wouldn't be able to coordinate with other people across the planet to solve real world problems.

How many of you pioneered a new piece of tractor technology that revolutionized the way a farmer operates? I get the feeling most of you reaped the benefits of high output hydraulic pumps, high HP compact tractors, High yield crops, and maybe even gps planting/fertilizing methods. But very few, if any of you actually invented or pioneered any of these things, yet here you are complaining about how this "new generation" cant get anything done or think outside the box. They may not be able to fix a '56 JD, but most of them can debug a standard tablet or PC which is the tool of today.

With today's generation, the people developing new rockets, automated cars, and networked systems aren't checking you out at the Walmart, just like in your day the parts delivery boy wasn't expected to know how to fix the tractor, just knew what package to drop off where. The milk man was expected to be able to keep a record of his deliveries and accounts, but couldn't tell you what genomes you need to cross to breed a better milk cow.

Dont judge a generation because you had a bad experience with someone making minimum wage, minimum wage is an employers way of telling you "I would really pay you less than this, but that would be illegal"
 
(quoted from post at 09:20:55 05/08/16) Another thought along these lines. How many adults do you know now that couldn't find their way out of a paper bag without a GPS? Nobody can read a Road Map or Atlas anymore. We constantly have truckers lost on our little country road because the GPS routed them the wrong way and they cant get turned around. Tow truck operators love them.
Click to expand...

Heck most people couldn't read a map before GPS. When I went to the primary NCO school in in 77 the first week was what the Army calls Land Navigation (map reading). Most students who washed out academically failed Land Nav (over 50%). That stayed the same through my entire rime in the Army, Land Nav was the biggest single cause for failure at the NCO academy. Every one of those soldiers had passed a much simpler Land Nav in basic training and had attended classes on Land Nav before attending the NCO school.

When I first retired in 96 we had 20-30 people on average pull in our drive asking for directions to a certain lake. Every one of them had a map and directions from a local bait shop and they could not navigate 2.5 miles. From the bait shop it was 2 miles due east and .5 south. We are 1.5 miles due east, house is about .2 south of the highway.

Sense GPS units and GPS on smart phones we haven't had anyone pulling in and asking directions in the last 4-5 years.

Rick
 
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