Is it true chemicals on seed corn ?

Is killing bees? I heard it's a chemical applied directly to the seed

From what I understand, it's not so much the chemical on the seed, but the powder seed lubricant and the way newer planters operate. Talc or graphite or a combination is dumped in with the seed in the planter. Then, the seed is moved to the row units through tubes with air pressure and the exhausted air contains seed lubricant and some residual chemical that can become airborne. I don't think anyone can say with certainty that this is causing hive collapse, but it's another theory. Canada has outlawed normal talc and graphite seed lubricant, and they're using a fluency agent now that is less likely to become airborne. Made by DuPont, I think. Corn seed has been treated with pesticide and inoculant for a long time, it's just not become airborne quite as easily until recently with the advent of center-fill planting equipment. I suppose treated soybean seed and treated wheat seed through an air seeder would have the same risk. Anyway, that's just what I remember reading.

Could be. I should not say this as I farm with chemicals but I don't like a lot of what we are doing to this old earth. Make sure you consider the source of the info.

I don't believe it's the talc or graphite that is causing the problems, but as they are exhausted out of a vacuum planter they take some of the seed treatment with them, causing the alleged problems. I can't imagine it's as bad as reported with as low of a dose that gets expelled from a planter. Mike

i think its solar panels also,,,,cause i have bees and last year from oct to dec..i did 10 target stores in north carolina..when i was on the roof white rubber with 1600 solar panels there were bees up their acting like they were drunk or lost some were rollin 2 inches off the roof trying to fly but couldnt...well i was fussin about it and the super said you should see the large panel arrays on the ground for the power companys..a couple hyundred acres...he said there were bees all around them.we hadnt even turned ours on yet.....i told my local college to get somebody to do a study on it cause i now bees and they were not acting normal...they knew my at the bee lab at UGA but they also know im a little crazy like most constuction guys...didnt graduate high school...but something is up.....also went to buy some sweet merit corn from seed store and they told me they were not gettin any merit because MONSATOS bought all the rights to the corn,,,said they were doin something to it.........no i dont really want it, if he does get next year...startin to likr stovalls evergreen open pollinator more and more...........it produces its own seed and the BIG man dont like u not buying his seed every year...........DEWY

A person who works for a pest control told me that the seed treatment chemical got into the plant, including the corn pollen, and could poison the bees. I only plant garden corn and hunted up some untreated sweet corn seed to use. I can take care of corn seed in ways that are not practical for farming operations so keeping the seed viable and pest free is not a problem. I keep seed corn including the open pollinated that I save in a refrigerator.

If the chemicals are in the corn I don't really like the idea of eating them myself.

KEH

My opinion is that vacuum planters send a lot of it in the air. Neighbor plants with one and our bees will partially be hurt when conditions are right (wrong). They convulse in front of the hive and die. I plant with a finger pickup 50' from the hives and never have a problem. Mine have seed treatments including what kills the bees. But mine is in the planter box with a lid, drops in the seed trench and is about immediately covered up. The local spray guy pushes insecticides all the time. I never spray them and can produce as much as the next guy. Spraying the whole field means you kill everything, including the bees, butterflies, etc. I'm not saying I'm right in my practices, just telling you what I've seen.

The guy is flat wrong. The seed treatment is for below ground insects. It isn't taken up by the plant and certainly isn't in the plant 3 months later when the plant polenates.
AaronSEUA

As others have said, the insecticide (neonicitinoids) get stuck to talc. A vacuum planter has plenty of talc dust coming from the exhaust. It's common for bees to gather just about anything in the spring before serious pollen shed, dust and dirt included. Those talc particles that landed on the plant in the fence line go home with the bees, and the insecticide goes along.

It may not be the only cause of Colony collapse disorder, but it certainly could be one of them.

Hi Mike-The bee problem seems to be real on my farm. In the past 1979-2012 I had hundreds of bees on my dandelions. This year I have seen a grand total of less than ten bees. No bees on the apple trees.

I suspect a small amount of pesticide is expelled from air planters. "Bees get repeated small doses" of expelled pesticide when it carried by the wind to areas where bees work (each flower they land on results in a very small dose). The small dose turns into a lethal dose as they move from flower to flower (1000's) and pretty soon they become sick and die.

Purdue University did a study and found dead bees in a band around the field which was air planted.

The older mechanical planters retained the pesticide in the seed box and the seed was covered with dirt preventing pesticide from escaping to the air (JD 7000, etc)

What is needed on air planters is an filter that catches all (100%) of dangerous pesticides before they are exhausted into the air.

The exhaust of low levels of pesticides has weakened the immune system of bees and made them susceptible to diseases. Pretty soon they get sick and die.

This is my theory on bee colony collapse.

Jay Oakes

Ottumwa, Ia

,,. THIS IS THE REAL TRUTH.....the guys below are just touching the tip of the ice berg with their opinions and some facts ,blaming talc andsuch ,,. it really is not the talc graphite dust as much as it is the chemical that gets comingled with it from the seed corn !,.. serveral years ago , it was pointed out on this forum ,...CLOTHINDYNIM IS BEING PLACED ON CORN SEED TO CONTROL ROOTWORM and other pests ,.. cloythindiynim(spelling) is what is killing the bees ,along with rootworms that come from continuous corn ,. my neighbors bees on both sides of the BTO 's corn fields cannot keep a colony over 2 yrs ...they keep spending money and replacing their bees..the science worx like this,,. the corn plant takes the clothyindanym into its root structure to deter rootworm pests,. also clothydynim is taken upinto the plant and is evident in the pollination stage ,. bees pollinate the corn , and become minutely contaminated ,one carrying the poison back to the hive is survivable,,. but hundreds of contaminated workers in a hive is a slow death of the entire hive, they will not survive til spring,..if the beekeepers replace the bees in the old contaminated hives , then the residual kills the new bees,.. they must come back with new hives.... the seed co.s refuse to acknowledge blame ,, and are far more powerful than the beekeepers, when it comes to getting congress to listen ... for that same reason , some guys are gonna blast my comments..., but the bees are gonna die if the seed companies keep coating the seeds , it used to be that you paid 5-10 bux extra for rootworm protection option.. now all co.s are presently coating their seed ,,. it is really not a needed chemical for those that wisely rotate crops ...

I have never heard of bees pollinating corn. Can't say I ever seen them in a corn field unless there were weeds with flowers on.

Coonie has a theory that some have raised.

It doesn't really fit very well, as many areas that do not use/ allow this chemical still are having bee issues.

But, they haven't figured anything else out, and so some folks quickly home in on this story and run with it as if it is the whole truth.

It may be, or it may be a small piece of the whole story, or it may have nothing to do with the bees.

It is certainly worth exploring further.

One thing, so,e folks just want to blindly ban this family of chemicals. The sky is falling, don't you know? Instead, we need to learn more, and perhaps we need to stop using this chemical in -air- planters. Used in a conventional plate or finger planter, there is no dust in the air, no exposure to the bees.

Level headed, science based, better understanding.

We need to move forward with some smarts.

Paul

No

Teddy52food,Honey bees really go after corn when the tassels are in the right stage,and that is when the corn is pollinating.
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(quoted from post at 18:20:18 04/21/16) Is killing bees? I heard it's a chemical applied directly to the seed

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I get some pretty big bee kills during planting season, worse in bee yards close to large areas of row cropped fields, virtually non-existent in yards away from row crops. It certainly has to do with the systemic insecticide (neonictinoid family pesticides) being exhausted from planters and the residual dust landing on everything around. Doesn't take much. From what I've read there is a lethal dose if ingested on 10 seeds to kill an entire honeybee colony (60,000+ bees).

For those of you that are saying No it does not effect the bees you are Totally Wrong. The neo nicks are killing them, wiping out whole hives in a mater of days. Want proof COME LOOK. The bees collect the contaminated pollen from the corn--store it over the winter and then in the spring they start feeding it to the bees emerging from the eggs. In a mater of weeks the hive will be completely dead. Iowa State university has employed a group of bug specialists to study this. Last time I spoke to them their study's were tending to confirm what we beekeepers have known for several years. For those of you who keep a hive of bees for the garden, most garden seed is now treated with this stuff. Those plants will kill your bees just like the corn pollen is a destroying ours.

Can anyone prove the seed treatment is taken up by the plant and comes out in the pollen? I call 100% total pure BS on neonics being in corn pollen. I've also never seen bees in a corn field at pollination time. I can buy the argument that the talc is carrying the treatment in the spring, but there is ZERO chance a seed treatment is in the pollen.
AaronSEIA

(quoted from post at 06:06:42 04/22/16) Can anyone prove the seed treatment is taken up by the plant and comes out in the pollen? I call 100% total pure BS on neonics being in corn pollen. I've also never seen bees in a corn field at pollination time. I can buy the argument that the talc is carrying the treatment in the spring, but there is ZERO chance a seed treatment is in the pollen.
AaronSEIA

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Neonictinoid class pesticides are systemic which means they are drawn up into the vascular system on the plants and stay there. It's designed ao that when insects try to feed on the plant it kills them. Honeybees to get pollen from corn, it's actually a fairly complete protein and abundantly available so bees collect a lot of it. I've had ro discard entire frames of pollen in July from hives because they collected way more than they can consume and were crowding out brood area.

Well if it is indeed true and that chemical goes from the seed up into the plant THAN WE ARE ALL IN TROUBLE !!!! This could very well be why cancer seems so rampant and appearing in younger and younger people more and more ?

(quoted from post at 06:57:29 04/22/16) Well if it is indeed true and that chemical goes from the seed up into the plant THAN WE ARE ALL IN TROUBLE !!!! This could very well be why cancer seems so rampant and appearing in younger and younger people more and more ?

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http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11356-014-3470-y

Link explains mode of action fairly well.

george pesticides do reek havoc on all bees. but it is not the only cause of colony collapse. i attended a symposium a couple weeks ago put on by our bee keeping club. experts from the us dept of ag were there, along with many other experts in the apiary field. last fall beekeepers experienced massive hive losses across the u.s. our club experiences 30-40 percent hive losses, hives were vacant, no bees, no brood, but ample honey and pollen stores were present in the hives. majority of losses were directly related to varroa mite infestations and the diseases they carry. they discovered last year bees were imported from eastern europe that carried three new diseases, israeli acute virus, kasmir acute virus, and chronic bee paralysis. about 70 percent of the commercial bee hives in the u.s. get shipped to california for the almond tree pollination, and then on to other farms for pollination. when done, they get shipped back across the u.s. to their homes. well, the infected bees went to california, infected a lot of the hives, then got spread back across the u.s. these bees then infected a lot of the local hives. they also discovered a new mite from south east asia, the tropilaelaps mite, similiar to the varroa mite. the usda put an import ban on all oversea bees, including canada and mexico. also, the small hive beetle (from africa) is doing a lot of damage to hives. the usda is trying to educate beekeepers to start I.P.M (integrated pest management) for all beekeepers to at the very least, limit the damage from these parasites. the latest approved mite treatment is the oxalic acid vaporizer to treat hives. the varrox vaporizer is the cadillac of the units. they also recommend a probiotic to feed the bees to maintain hive health. a home made probiotic is (to make one quart) 2 parts water, one part sugar, 3-5 drops lemon extract, 3-5 drops mint extract, and 3-5 drops lemon grass extract. (note these are extracts, not essential oils. ) the lemon grass extract is hard to find locally, but available on amazon. the recommend feeding in spring and fall, and anytime the bees are stressed. there is also a new strain of nosema that got here, nosema ceranae, it causes a lack of build out around june. there is also american foulbrood,(you have to completely destroy and burn and bury the hive if infected, european foulbrood, (treatable), and chalkbrood. sorry i got a little winded, but wanted to share with any beekeepers here.

Dumb question:
Why not add a thin encapsulation layer around the treated seed to reduce the amount of the chemicals getting airborne in air planters? The encapsulation could be similar to that applied to most medical pills including coated aspirin and many candies like jelly beans. The process has been around for nearly a century and would cost less than 25 cents per 50 pound bag of seed. Encapsulation might reduce the amount of chemicals needed to treat the seed, offsetting the cost of encapsulation. Also, with less airborne chemicals the seed would be safer for farmers to handle.

I know, seed companies cannot possibly afford to spend another 25 cents to produce a $400 to $600 bag of seed corn, and no farmer can afford to spend an extra 25 cents per acre because both the seed company and the farmer would go bankrupt, LOL.

KEH, suppose one can tell the climate change deniers in this string? gm ;-)

Thanks for sharing that recent information. Just starting out, good to know.

The truth is that none of you know what causes colony collapse. It didn't happen years ago when really potent chemicals were spewed all over the country by airplane.

All I know is I have lost 2 strong hives that were real close to RR corn and heavy power lines. I don't know what caused me to lose both hives, but I know that either didn't help. Do you guys really think the government would tell you everything we need to know about this? I personally don't trust anyone who can vote for their own pay raise (these people generally take money from people that tell us everything we do is safe).

(quoted from post at 17:45:26 04/21/16) From what I understand, it's not so much the chemical on the seed, but the powder seed lubricant and the way newer planters operate. Talc or graphite or a combination is dumped in with the seed in the planter. Then, the seed is moved to the row units through tubes with air pressure and the exhausted air contains seed lubricant and some residual chemical that can become airborne. I don't think anyone can say with certainty that this is causing hive collapse, but it's another theory. Canada has outlawed normal talc and graphite seed lubricant, and they're using a fluency agent now that is less likely to become airborne. Made by DuPont, I think. Corn seed has been treated with pesticide and inoculant for a long time, it's just not become airborne quite as easily until recently with the advent of center-fill planting equipment. I suppose treated soybean seed and treated wheat seed through an air seeder would have the same risk. Anyway, that's just what I remember reading.

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Agree!! ( Talc Powder) Will kill Ants, Big Time!! FOR example you get them grease ant's in your kitchen counters? Find the trail and put some (Talc) Baby powder on them.
They are trying to take out the Nero-toxins out of the Pesticides used chemicals that harms the ( Honeybee's)!!
AS A Farmer I try not to upset anything I don't have to.
I Will Say Something I get upset set about!!
I DON'T Know how many people go and buy pesticides to kill bugs! (Insecticide) Spend lot's of Money!! For something that is A NERO-TOXIN!! ( Malathion, Diazion, Seven, Chlordane, Creosote, DDT, Ect.) I Also use them!! But I have learned. I have been using something that has been around for years for bugs, NOT FOR CROPS.!!! You do not need a Pesticide Licences!! I KNOW, ENVIRONMENTALIST!!!,Not ME,
WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!! It"s called , TEMPO-SC, Made By Bayer Corp. Look it up total harmless to us!! It will control everything from a scorpion on down!! They use this in food factories!! It has been around from the 1960'S . Use it unwisely and don't follow the directions!! Your in for trouble. The best Pesticide I've ever known!! Don't harm kid's Animals Ect. LOOK IT UP!!
Just trying to Help.!!