Kickinbull
Member
Why will riding lawnmowers burn that crap gas but my 1650 oliver,chain saws,weed trimmers and such run bad?
- Thread starter Kickinbull
- Start date
I don't know about the Ollie, tuning maybe, but the saws and other 2 strokes do better on non-ethanol due to the magic unicorn urine or whatever it is in the fuel blend that reacts with the 2 stroke oil and the plastics in the tool to create gummy residue and rock hard varnish.
Same here...Using 90-10 ethanol gas has caused me few if any problems in tractors,mowers,chain saws,weed eaters,etc...Ethanol gets blamed for bad plugs,points,distributor caps,plug wires,coils,carburetor,etc....One of my gas tractors started hard and wouldn't run right....It was as simple as the points were a little out of adjustment..
Stuff didn't always run perfect back in the good old days with leaded fuel..Believe me I know..
Stuff didn't always run perfect back in the good old days with leaded fuel..Believe me I know..
brutus49DC
Member
yeah and we don't have frozen gas lines/filters anymore like we did years ago trying to get the cattle fed or to the church on time, I doubt some of the people on here could make their tractors run right if you gave them a lifetime supply of premium gas
I have had no problems running any of my equipment on 87 octane with 10% ethanol. I have had fuel lines (rubber) and several aluminum carbs messed up by ethanol gas. But have had no problems in the last 5 years. I have been using a stabilizer that combats the corrosive effect of the ethanol and can store fuel for 3 years.
I'd be looking for another scapegoat. My Super 55,66,77,1550 and 1600 run fine. E10's been around for so long,I don't know how anybody would even know the difference anymore anyway. It's like saying they've been running like crap since they took the lead out of the gas.
farmerwithmutt
Well-known Member
There are a few places that carry regular gas no corn kwick trip around here does. Maybe get some of that gas and try and see if that solves the problem.
probably have other issues like others have said run ethanol in every item here never had issues. it goes out in every new unit of mowers etc also now have had any issues. shelf life does become issue but other than that have yet to see it. chainsaws, snowblowers and generators i have switch customers over to the can gas product, not because of ethanol it is because it has 5 year shelf life, unopened and 2 years if in unit i ran it all time in my 1650 for years
This thing has been kicked around on here for years now, and way back there I decided it may be location more than anything. Here in Tennessee on the farm we have over 26 gas powdered engines, some of which may not get ran 4 or 5 times a year. We burn e85 gas with absolutely no problems attributed to the gas. I wont say when I pick up one that I know that has been setting for awhile that I might not dump the gas and put fresh in and sometimes in the fall we will go around to some of the larger ones and give them a swig of SeaFoam but guess we are just lucky.
I don't think engines, especially small engines, start as easy on the new stuff called gas, other than that I haven't had any problems yet. I put the Briggs and Stratton fuel stabilizer in a can of gas as soon as I get it home, then no matter what I dump it in it is OK for a good while. If anything I get more of the treatment in than is necessary too.
onefarmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- 6735 S Lowell Rd, St Johns, Mi 48879
Way back when in the 80's I had some fuel line problems on the chainsaws. Changed out the lines and no more problems. I assume they made the lines to withstand the e10. But they ran just fine on the fuel. Everything I have does. I've ran e10 in the Farmall M and JD620. A bit of tweeking of the mixture and they ran just fine all summer. put e10 back in set the mixture for it and still running fine.
Any problems I've had is more having to tweek the mixture then the fuel sucks.
I can see problems with the newer engines with the epa mandated can't make adjustments.
Any problems I've had is more having to tweek the mixture then the fuel sucks.
I can see problems with the newer engines with the epa mandated can't make adjustments.
M-MAN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Bostic, NC
I can run it in anything but I prefer to avoid the problems it causes for me. It eats the plastic in my cub cadet so once or twice a year I had to pull the carb and clean out the rubbery goo. Same thing with the weed eater. When a local station finally started carrying plain gas again I started using it and it helped a lot but the additives they use in any gas now a day's still causes some problems. The ethanol guy's alway's get in an uproar cause they think you're hitting them when in reality it isn't just the ethanol that causes problems. Every time the government finds fault with an additive it gets changed. It's a never ending cycle. I'm glad so many folks don't have any problems running the stuff but in reality half the people I know don't even realize when something is running bad.
CenTex Farmall
Well-known Member
I have one old M that gets used infrequently. It will sit for 6 months with E10 in the tank and then start on the second revolution. Not rebuilt or anything, just a well worn old M.
Brown Swiss
Well-known Member
Maybe the 1650 oliver,chain saws,weed trimmers and such are worn out, and the lawnmowers are not!
Russ from MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Bemidji MN
We run E-10 in everything that I don't have to mix oil in, and have no problems.
Russ from MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Bemidji MN
Amen to that!!
I have personally seen a multitude of issues directly related to ethanol fuels. I don't care what anyone says, with our gas that we get here in northern NY on the US/Canadian border, which isn't going to be the same stuff you get in Ga, Mo, SD or Ia., we have problems. The older the machine is, the more problems you seem to have. But even at that, I bought a water pump 2 years ago. It gets intermittent use in summer. Despite draining the carb and tank after use, I've got that gummy, hard to remove varnish in the carb from the ethanol fuel. When you do everything the "right way" and it still causes problems, it's pretty hard to say no one ever has problems.
Kinda strange to me a bunch of CORN growing shade tree mechanics love ethanol blends and every small engine mechanic I know says that if you use it you will see a lot more of them! What's up with that? I know 5-6 of em and everyone of em says the same thing. Plus the small engine makers warn you off of it. But that's OK I guess only CORN growers know the truth.
Rick
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
Well, all I know is I'm telling the God's honest truth when I say that I've been running 10% ethanol 87 octane pump gas in everything for at least 10 years now and I have not had a single problem that I could attribute to ethanol.
Frankly I think a lot of mechanics use ethanol as a convenient scapegoat for problems they either can't or don't want to explain to the customer. They know the customer is not going to accept that it was their negligence/abuse that caused the problem, and he will likely lose a customer. So he blames ethanol. Yup, ethanol caused you to straight-gas that chainsaw and score the jug. Well, maybe it did but the ethanol involved wasn't in the fuel...
Frankly I think a lot of mechanics use ethanol as a convenient scapegoat for problems they either can't or don't want to explain to the customer. They know the customer is not going to accept that it was their negligence/abuse that caused the problem, and he will likely lose a customer. So he blames ethanol. Yup, ethanol caused you to straight-gas that chainsaw and score the jug. Well, maybe it did but the ethanol involved wasn't in the fuel...
jimg.allentown
Well-known Member
This debate will most likely continue until the end of time.
However, your blustery assertion that the ethanol problems are to be blamed on incompetent mechanics is simply wrong.
There are and will continue to be some problems with the use of ethanol in motor fuels. Some facts are undeniable simply because they are FACTS.
FACT: there are less BTUs in ethanol than in gasoline.
FACT: E10 has a shorter shelf life than pure gasoline. Phase separation WILL occur at some point with E10. This means that equipment that is not frequently used may have ethanol related problems.
FACT: Use of ethanol in fuels has caused the value of corn to increase. It has also affected the cost of food.
OPINION: I don't think that E10 mixes as well with 2-cycle oil as straight gasoline does leading to potential problems with some small 2-cycle engines - like chain saws, string trimmers, leaf blowers, etc.
At the end of the day, some like it, some don't. Whether I like it or not, all I ask is to be allowed to make the choice for myself. And, I ask the same for you and other defenders of ethanol. Let the subsidies end - if there are any. Let the marketplace decide.
However, your blustery assertion that the ethanol problems are to be blamed on incompetent mechanics is simply wrong.
There are and will continue to be some problems with the use of ethanol in motor fuels. Some facts are undeniable simply because they are FACTS.
FACT: there are less BTUs in ethanol than in gasoline.
FACT: E10 has a shorter shelf life than pure gasoline. Phase separation WILL occur at some point with E10. This means that equipment that is not frequently used may have ethanol related problems.
FACT: Use of ethanol in fuels has caused the value of corn to increase. It has also affected the cost of food.
OPINION: I don't think that E10 mixes as well with 2-cycle oil as straight gasoline does leading to potential problems with some small 2-cycle engines - like chain saws, string trimmers, leaf blowers, etc.
At the end of the day, some like it, some don't. Whether I like it or not, all I ask is to be allowed to make the choice for myself. And, I ask the same for you and other defenders of ethanol. Let the subsidies end - if there are any. Let the marketplace decide.
These CARB compliant small engines want/need lots of choke and throttle for starting,even if they've been
shut down for a few minutes to refuel or moving one around.I have several compliant engines that have had nothing but 10% fuel in them and every one is a 3 pull max. to start.Even my splitter which I sometimes use in the winter is an easy starter in below 0* temps.I'm not seeing any of the problems many people speak of from using 10% fuel.Now ,I'm not saying they don't have a problem, but I don't think it's because of 10% gasoline.
fixerupper
Well-known Member
JM does have a point. Some high humidity areas have problems with ethanol. Here in the Midwest the ethanol related problems are pretty much gone with the new engines and have been gone for a good 25 years. That said, some people whine about everything new. It's the same posters on this forum doing it over and again. There was nothing perfect in the old days and everything isn't perfect today, that's the way it is! We had whiners in the old days and they haven't gone away.
If ethanol gave me problems I would drop the stuff in a moment, but I haven't had the problems with the gum and goo and whatever. I shut the seasonal engines down in the fall with ethanol laced gasoline in the carb and the next spring I start them up and use them. No preservatives, nothing special. In the old days I would have water in the gas tanks and float bowls. Not today with ethanol in the tank. End of story!
If ethanol gave me problems I would drop the stuff in a moment, but I haven't had the problems with the gum and goo and whatever. I shut the seasonal engines down in the fall with ethanol laced gasoline in the carb and the next spring I start them up and use them. No preservatives, nothing special. In the old days I would have water in the gas tanks and float bowls. Not today with ethanol in the tank. End of story!
Funny but my lawn mower, about 5 years old, Honda engine, replaced 2 carbs (complete carb was 3 bucks more than the kit) burning ethanol E10, none sense going with straight gas starts on one pull with straight gas, Tiller 2 years old, B&S straight gas, starts one pull and both my chain saws, one about 8 years old and the other new last year will start on 2 pulls max cold. Don't have to choke any of them once they are hot. ALL running straight gas.
Just saying.
Only thing I have with a small engine that requires more than 2 pulls is an old B&S that's close to needing rings.
I've also have fewer problems with my old 55HP Johnson outboard (1983) running straight gas.
Rick
I didn't whine. I stated that my gripe with ethanol is being a MN resident I'm forced to support it regardless if I want to or not. I did state what five of six school trained small engine mechanics say that I personally know between about 21 years old to 60. I also stated my personal experience. I also pointed out that "winter" storage differs area to area. Here in MN, 90 miles southeast of Fargo ND lawn and garden equipment gets run on average from May through the end of Sep. So really it normally sets 7 months. The time line for ethanol gas starting to go bad is about 90 days. That's starting. Some type of stabilizer can extend that but even the it starts to go bad about 180 days. Again STARTS. These are proven times that you can look up yourself.
Now on the other hand us non ethanol believers have been accused of fraternizing with the nnalert extremist and of not being patriotic. Because we don't like a product. We have also been told basically we have no idea what we are talking about when people with more knowledge and experience agree with us.
I support farmers. I eat. I buy food. I don't need to put a corn product in my gas tank.
Rick
BarnyardEngineering
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rochester, NY
Funny but I have the same "one pull" results from all my small engines using nothing but E10 ethanol. Haven't had to work on a single carb on an engine that hasn't been setting for decades, let alone replace one.
Only carb work I do is when I buy an old chainsaw of unknown provenance. I clean and regasket the carb as a matter of the initial inspection process. Usually they're full of sawdust. Small engine mechanic would probably tell me that ethanol causes sawdust to form in a chainsaw carb.
As someone who works in the fuel industry, when the change to 10% Ethanol was coming about, we had to clean the Underground storage tanks at all gas stations prior to the switch. We used water jets and suction pumps to suck the tank crud out. This is because the tanks, underground for up to 25 years, had accumulated garbage (my term) in the tanks, and that crud stayed in place through the drain and refill cycles of the tanks. When ethanol was added to the fuel, all the "stuff" in the tanks that we could not clean out, became loosened. Which got pumped to the filters in the dispensers. Which we were changing weekly for about 3 months.
So, the ethanol has a cleaning power that straight gasoline does not have, at least in the 87 octane. (Big oil company 93 has additives that do clean).
Another property that the ethanol blend has that straight gasoline does not have, is the ability to blend with water, but only up to a certain amount. If your storage allows any water in, the ethanol will be separated out of the gasoline (phase separation). This is easily discovered by stalled cars at the exit to the gas station. As the water pulls the ethanol out of the gasoline, it quickly settles to the bottom of the tank where it is pumped from the bottom (all stations pump from the bottom), directly into customers cars. There are filters that block the flow when phase separation occurs, but not all stations use them.
Yes, most vehicles will run better and get better mileage on straight gasoline. We averaged 24 miles to the gallon on our Ford Minivan we had at the time from Bristol TN to NJ, yet only 20 MPG over the same stretch of road on 10% ethanol blend.
I am not sure why ethanol came to be in our fuel. I am pretty sure it was someone buying votes buy giving out subsidies. But that is a subject for another thread.
LNK
fixerupper
Well-known Member
I read a scientific study on the corrosive effects of 100% ethanol on different metal compositions. This was a true monotone sounding non biased study. The results scared me. The pure stuff is very corrosive. The 10% stuff isn't nearly that corrosive but it does dry out non-resistant synthetic materials. The gunk and goo could come from the lower refined low octane gasoline the ethanol is blended with. Ethanol gives a low grade, low octane gasoline more octane but the gasoline itself is still low grade. A couple of years ago I made the statement suggesting the small engine manufacturers get on the band wagon and come up with ethanol resistant carburetor parts. I was crucified at that time but I still stand with the statement I made. Someday our natural resources will run out. It won't be be in my lifetime or my grandchildrens lifetime, but it will happen. Ethanol and bio diesel and wnd energy won't come close to meeting the energy demand but at least the technology we are gaining today will be in place and might help soften the blow. I am glad I won't be alive then. Like I said previously if ethanol gave me problems I would drop it in a heartbeat but I haven't seen those problems on my farm.
Well I am neither a new user nor a corn grower and I have had 0 issues with 10% ethanol gas.
I use 87 octane 10% in everything on the place.
Riding lawn mower, push lawnmower, Stihl chainsaw, generator, Farmall 756 656 and M, Allis WDs, Cat 22, Case 611, tiller.
Most everything sits for a few months over the winter and starts first time in the spring without the use of any stabilizer or additive.
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