White Tractors

I have a friend that very much likes White tractors. I've read a ton of good things about Oliver tractors. Haven't spent much time on
Minneapolis - Moline tractors. Read some about Cockshutt tractors.

I understand White Motors acquired Oliver, MM and Cockshutt tractors and eventually rolled all,of them into White tractors.

Here's my question: What models tractors survived the consolidation, which features found they're way into all/most White tractors?

Once the silver paint and "White" logo were affixed, along with some new sheet metal, were White tractors really different than their
predecessors?

Once the consolidation to White happened, did White advance new/different models and technology or milk the old brand/designs?

What was the mood of the employees, dealers and mostly end users? Did they embrace "White" ? One can read volumes, good and bad,
regarding the joining of Case and IH, wondering how "White" was embraced.

Where was White in the pecking order vs JD, IH, MF, Ford and Case tractors? A blip on the sales radar or a formative competitor? Why would
a farmer in 1977 buy a White vs the others?

Lasty - in the end, Agco bought White tractors. Did they continue them, basically unchanged or replace the whole design/line up with a
different tractor line - like Deutz did with AC? Does any of the legacy White tractor design still live in one of Agco's brands of tractors?

Just curious.

Thanks!
Bill

Great questions.
The White 2-70 was an Oliver 1655 with different sheet metal and new color scheme. The 2-85 and 2-105 was an 1855 Oliver with the Perkins engine from the 1850. Only difference was that the 105 had a turbo and the 2-85 didn't.
The 2-150 was a MM G1355 with different sheet metal. The 4-150 was a whole different animal from the Oliver 2655 and MM Plainsman. The first all new White design was the 2-135 and 2-155. They were basically the same tractor,just a different turbo and injector pump to gain 20 horses. All of those models kept the Oliver three speed Over/under power shift. The 2-135 and 2-155 used the same 478 Hercules that the Oliver 2050 and 2150 used. Pretty much every trace of MM was dropped after the end of the 2-150. The Workhorse line,model 100,120,140,were pretty much the same new White design as the 2-135 and 2-155,but with a Cummins engine instead of a Perkins or Hercules.
For quite a few years prior to them coming under the same name,White built the transmissions and rear ends for Deutz Allis,so the Agco Whites and Agco Allis were pretty much the White design just continually updated.
The deal with Fiat didn't go on for very many years after the name change,and that's a shame,because by that time,the Fiat built models had developed in to a great,bullet proof tractor. They started getting their utility tractors from Iseki. That was just one more nail in the coffin.

Ownership of the line didn't go right from White Motors to Agco. There were other owners in between. When White Motors went bankrupt,they were acquired by Texas Instruments,then Allied Products and finally by New Idea before Agco acquired White New Idea.
I'd say the acceptance of the brand wasn't great. Customers of Oliver,MM and Cockshutt was all resentful of the loss of their brand. I couldn't tell what White's share of the market was in the late 70s through the late 80s,but my guess would be that it wasn't much more than 5%.
As far as the why would a farmer buy one,I think it was just dealer loyalty. Loyalty to the dealers that were left anyway. When White Motors went bankrupt,production stopped for the better part of a year,so dealers had no brand to sell and no contract. Quite a few went to Ford at the time,just to stay in business.

Being a red and meadow green operator all of my life, standing back and watching the dark green go down hill over the years was kind of saddening. I ran a S88 as a kid, and thought it was a heck of a good machine. Enough so that I bought a 2-70 at an auction a couple of years ago just to play with. My impression of the current White Agco isn't really bad, but it is tempered by a neighbor of mine who has a couple. My main impression is that Agco was early on a European design- which I have less use for than the American products- stuffed into package that is colored to get buyers depending on which engine they want. They all seem like the same from the clutch back, with a Perkins under the red hood, an Allis under the AGCO hood and a Cummins under the silver White hood. Just a different paint job. And I am not impressed with the Euro engineered green and blue stuff, either. I still look for a -40 series JD or a 56-66 series cornbinder for horsepower in the field. While they're nice to drive, the controls are all over and made for morons and designed by idiots. These newer tractors just aren't easy to work on and seem to be a play by the larger manufacturers to rip off the farmer by making them put the machine into the shop every time it has a hiccup or gets a boo boo. But, I guess my tool box just isn't big enough to hold more than a crescent hammer and a screwdriver, some baling wire and a pack of bubbley gum.....

You got the answer man! I will add the local perspective here.

Cayuga County is mostly long and narrow, running N-S, (partially from being between the Fingerlakes.) We had three Oliver dealers, north, middle, and south. Those who bought Oliver kept right on with White. I think they even expanded market share a little as they were early with MFWD, and AC died. We had several AC dealers too. Up until a year ago we had one Agco parts only, $200,000/year dealer left. Then Agco pulled the plug on that one.

It's to bad agco has dropped the allis name the white name and trying to drop the Hesston name you can't even buy an orange or silver painted tractor new any more . Agco is still my second choice above fiat

Current AGCO brands are Massy Ferguson, Challenger, Fendt and Valtra. They dropped White and AGCO badged tractors sometime ago.

I've seen a lot of farm land around the US. I've seen areas that were predominantly one brand or another. Back in the 70's I never saw and area that the majority of the tractors were Ford, Oliver, MM or White. I saw those brands sprinkled through some areas and totally absent in others. Now that's not saying that those brands were not the leading tractor in some areas.

Here for example we had a JD dealer 8 miles away but very few farmers had JD. AC was about 14 miles with a good dealer but not a strong presence. Ford 8 miles but very few Fords. IH was 20 miles but that was what you saw the most of. Case was 25 miles and a joke. Didn't see any of those within 10 miles of our farm. MF was 60 miles and small. Few combines but that was about it. 60 miles west of us was mostly JD at that time. Case was next followed by MF. Basically it was the dealer who made a brand predominate in a given area. In east central KS near Ft Riley it was a split between JD and IH. AC had a strong presence in south central MN.

Over in the Red River Valley area of MN/ND Deere had a leg up as they had a 4X4 tractor out before most of the others did. At first it was another manufacturer who made them for Deere. IIRC Deere eventually bought them out. So the Valley was mostly JD prior to the 80's farm crises and stayed that way until the Quad Track came out. Now you are starting to see a lot of red paint over there.

Rick

My brother and I grew up with John Deere gas tractors, but our first diesel tractor was an Oliver. Over the years, we owned dozens of Oliver tractors and implements and eventually owned a few White tractors. When the local dealership sold Oliver, it was good. When it was sold and went to selling silver, it stunk. My brother finally swore off White when the dealership wouldn't stand behind their work. One example was when they completely rebuilt the rear end of a White, but absolutely wouldn't give him any price break when it needed the same repair less than a year later.
My brother now buys mostly JD now, even if the brand isn't any better than the old Olivers. I still own quite a few Olivers.

To add to the White tractor history they sold some of the patents to a company in Brazil
and they produced CBT tractors that looked very similar to the large Olivers.I have a
CBT 8260 has a Perkins diesel engine they also sold tractors with Mercedes diesels.

Most of the features on the White tractors were Oliver designs, tub frame, rear ends etc. with other new designs as well. They did use MMs taper lock hubs and weights on the larger tractors rear wheels for many years. I do believe some of the wide fronts on the larger ones were the same as the last MMs as well.

(quoted from post at 05:18:11 03/27/16) Most of the features on the White tractors were Oliver designs, tub frame, rear ends etc. with other new designs as well. They did use MMs taper lock hubs and weights on the larger tractors rear wheels for many years. I do believe some of the wide fronts on the larger ones were the same as the last MMs as well.

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We had a 2-85 White. One day I noticed the paint was flaking off the rear wheel centers....they were gold underneath. I guess that 2-85 was part MM!

It's not even the allis gleaner company anymore ..: it's your agriculture company

Only ever knew two farmers with White tractors. grandpa's neighbor traded a Farmall 706 with engine trouble for a used White 2-85 back in mid 80's. I don't recall they had any problems with the White. The White was on his retirement sale in 2001. Still looked and ran fine.
At the time grandpa had an Oliver 1855. The dash layout was almost identical between the two. The White and out Oliver had the same frame and shared several of the same components like the 3pt hitch.

Another farmer in town was a MM man. He had a 5 star, ZA,302, and a big GB. he bought a 2-105 brand new. He was a good friend of dads. I don't recall Paul having any complaints about his White.