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Michigan man killed by bull

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Dave H (MI)

Well-known Member
Name not released, Lowell Twp. No one we know, I hope? He was 71 years old. I think they said it took 33 rounds to kill the bull. Somebody is a bad shot!
 
Just had a major discussion of this on Bookface. While everyone was ok with putting the bull down. Me included. We questioned 33 shots. Would it take 33 shots or just one officer to empty one clip. Or just a few shots via a shotgun. I thought it was all the deputies in the county showing up and having a free-for-all. It was a pretty good discussion.
 
Maybe it didn't stand still long enough for a good safe head shot. I would think one of the 33 shots would have hit a sweet spot though.
 
Dang what were they shooting with a BB gun. Maybe been better off hitting him between the ears with the 2x4. Im sure alot quicker
 
Don't be so sure. I shot a 15 year old Highland cow at 30 feet with a 30/30 and it bounced off. Same thing with an older Miniature Brahma. The older ones I tend to do at the back of the head, if I can.
 
At the California State Fair in 2010, a cow ran loose with police chasing it in a squad car police firing multiple times hitting
it 11. The fair had just opened that day so it wasn't terribly crowded but it was an amazingly dangerous thing they did. They
claimed the loose cow was a danger, they did not say whether shooting from a moving vehicle with people around was at all risky.

The next day protesters showed up peacefully protesting the shooting of the cow. One woman claimed she will be traumatized for
life by the incident. The were really upset the fetus died.

I've been around livestock for a while and generally speaking animals run when they are being chased and eventually stop when
they are not. I did, however, see a heifer travel 5 miles through numerous fences to a dairy (she was really nuts). We also
had a buffalo show up from another county.
 
When I was 16 years old our holstine bull got ahold of me. If my dad hadn't been there with a pitch fork I would of been killed.
I had gone out into the cattle yard to get a newborn calf. Our bull was in the cattle yard. I took off running for the fence and he caught me, I was thrown into the air then landed on the ground on my back. The next thing that happened he bore done on me with his head and all I saw was stars. My dad had seen what was happening to me and came to my rescue with a pitchfork. I then got up and ran for the fence. I was really lucky that day.
Brian
 
I read a paper put out by the local Ag University that had done a study on how to down a bovine. Using a Hi-power on the head wont stop them. The bullet will pass thru the skull and usually miss the brain. A better kill is achieved by placing a small cal. like a 22 at the center of the X that is made if you had lines drawn from the left horn to the right eye and right horn to the left eye. the bullet will enter the brain cavity but will not exit. It will however bounce around in there making mush of the gray matter.
 
Yea i can believe the amout of rounds to kill it if they did not get a good close head shot . I go with a buddy on what we call the North east Ohio safari when cows and bull get out and can not be rounded up and put back in with the herd they go Farrell and i am here to tell ya they are dangerous . we have been working on 6 that have been out for over a year and sofar we have shot four with two to go . The last round Eugene hit the one bull at about 200 yds with a good head shot from a 270 with a 150 grain and the bullet ricocheted off the skull and exited out by the horns , it dazed it for about ten seconds and then all heck broke loose . I was tofar away to do any good with my 30-30 and the other guys with us all had 308's and one 30-06 It took five more rounds from those rifles before it went down and Eugene ran up and cut it's throat as it was still not dead. after that round has brought forth then new rifle build that is in the works . Like the old saying mess with the bull and get the horn . I feel bad for the family over this as that man probably been around that bull for years and never had a problem , but you can not trust them and they are way more stronger then you are and out weigh you 10 to 1 . eugene does butchering everyday and normally he downs them with a 22 usen CCI copper jacketed solids mini mags from five to ten feet . That Bull we did that day had and inch or better hide on the skull and the bone was really thick . Just like messen with a cow and her calf , one may not bother you while the next one will try it's darnest to kill you . Stay safe around live stock and as we get older Don't work alone your not as fast as you use to be .
 
(quoted from post at 21:21:34 03/10/16) When I was 16 years old our holstine bull got ahold of me. If my dad hadn't been there with a pitch fork I would of been killed.
I had gone out into the cattle yard to get a newborn calf. Our bull was in the cattle yard. I took off running for the fence and he caught me, I was thrown into the air then landed on the ground on my back. The next thing that happened he bore done on me with his head and all I saw was stars. My dad had seen what was happening to me and came to my rescue with a pitchfork. I then got up and ran for the fence. I was really lucky that day.
Brian
Click to expand...

When I was around 10 I got the job of herding a milk cow and newborn about 2 miles down the road to home. About 3/4 of the way they decided to rest...I thought it would be smart to bark like a dog to get them moving again....wrong! That cow charged at me so fast I didn't know what hit me. Fortuately she rolled me under the fence and couldn't get to me. We always seemed to have mean bulls. Carrying a pitchfork when going into the cowyard was standard procedure when the bull was with the cows. I always dreaded the days we had to load them up to sell. We had one huge Charlais that I remember well, he took out many fences....fortunately we never had any major incidents. The neighbors bull dumped our horse with my dad on him once, I was waiting over the hill in the old 62 chevy pickup. He came walking the horse over the hill towards me, blood running out of the horses nose. I got to walk the horse home 2 miles, dad showed up later with the front fender of the truck all smashed in....
 
If they would have known what they were doing usually one shot from a high powered rifle just behind the front should ( double lung - heart shoot) will do it. We have had several deer with legs broke and cops emptied side arm and ended up getting shot and still took several shots to kill it.
 
Now there's a bunch that should have their guns confiscated. And as far as 30 cal. rounds bouncing of a bull's head,the shock would bring him to his knees anyhow. Hasn't anyone heard of lung and heart shots,or did those fail to penitrate also? Who ever said "you can't make this stuff up"haven't met these people yet.
 
The news story says "The deputies fired 33 rounds with their cruiser [b:32b60e955b]rifles[/b:32b60e955b], striking the animal each time -- it eventually dropped to the ground."

That leads me to believe that they were shooting 223/5.56. Sorry guys but that rifle just doesn't have the stopping power of a large bore rifle. Plus if the officers involved didn't know the best places to place their shots then they had real problems. I'm pretty sure officers are not taught where to shoot a cow.

We shot a cow a few years ago. Point blank range at the alleged perfect spot with a 357 Mag. It took five more in the head from the 357 and one from a 270 to put it down.

Rick
 
When we farmed we butchered at least one beef a year. We used 12 gauge deer slug at about 20 ft. and it never failed to take one down with one shot between eyes. When we dressed it out we would find slug in neck half way between head and front shoulder.
 
When I was a kid, Dad had a guy come out to help butcher our big steer and a couple of hogs.
It was the first time I ever saw a pistol so I remember well it was a .22 because we talked about it.
The man just walked up to the steer and put once shot between the eyes or somewhere abouts and
the steer didn't even have time to tip over. His front knees buckled and down he went.
Didn't even twitch a muscle. He was just instantly dead.
That's when I learned true respect for a small caliber handgun.
 
I killed my 1000 lb. Highland bull with one shot in the neck from my .223. About 50 yds. away & he never took step one; just laid down in his tracks.
 
I can tell ya this a 270 at long range will not drop a 2000lb plus angus bull and five more rounds from 308's and one 30-06 before it went down but not dead . . And those rounds did get the lungs but not the heart . at it happen back in Early Feb. Back in january i had a chance on that one bull but just as i was going to pull the trigger i got called off as we had two down out of the six we went after and we could only get two into the locker that day . Now i am glad i did not take that shot on that Angus as i think all my 30-30 would have done was tick him off . My shot would have been at fifty yards or so . Now the long range i am talking about was about 200 yds. I also know that when i am done with the long range COW getter i will not be usen any 165 grain bullets and moving up to 200 grain. with a slightly heavier powder load.
 
When I was a lad I went with my dad several times to the local slaughter house. They dropped the cattle with a .22 short. Seemed to work every time.
 

Yea that would work but not like when my buddy and i go out after Farrel cows that have been out for several mounths to over a year. Your darn lucky to get a shot at under a 100 yds. . He and i have been after six now since the first part of Dec. and we are down to the last two . we have been letting them settel down now for a month since the last round of cow hunting as we had them really stured up . (1) we don't need then running out on to the Ohio Turn pike or onto I76 as they are in heavy brush and woods just west and to the north of where the two roads come together . we have to watch how we shoot as we can only shoot to the west. Sometimes these wild cow hunts take a good amount of time to get the job done . And you never get a shot of less the fifty yard on a good day and most times it is 200 plus , they are spookier then deer. so IF them Deputy's were shooting a 5.56 round they were spitten in the wind with a wound up bull. After the last round we were on with a really mad and ticked off 2000lb plus Angus bull six rounds from one 270 and four 308 's and one 06 was what it took to drop but not kill it .
 
You should be able to take a bull at 100 to 200 yards easy with a 30-06 or 270 at that range with one shot. They are no harder to take down than a bull moose.
 

I don't know what breed that this bull was but it needed to be de-horned long before it reached the age it was!!! Bull appears to have some Mexican fighting bull genes in it's background.
 
Makes all the difference in the world as to how amped up the critter is. I have killed a number of cattle with a 22 long rifle. I have also had to shoot one numerous times with my 30.06 to get one down. I KNOW WHERE THE SWEET SPOT IS! and I hit it every time.
 
Yeah, most of those officers carry AR-15's in .223. Not exactly a heavy critter rifle. An animal the size of a bull isn't going to go down immediately with a heart/lung shot with an /06 size rifle either. It would take a nervous system hit to do that.
 


IF it was the Cops shooting the Bull, they probably expended a Thousand rounds on it...

The little deal here in Ohio with the Lions, Tigers, Giraffes, etc..the Cops shot them all to He?? and then some..

Shot them up so bad, they buried them before the News people could photograph them..

They shot every loose animal even if it were NO safety issue what so ever..

I believe it has to do with the mixing of Steroids with Adrenalin..(+ a free hand with a loaded gun)...

Yes, I am ALL for Random and Often drug testing of Officers...

Maybe Andy Griffith had the Correct Idea with Barney keeping his ONE Bullet in his Pocket..!!!!

Ron..
 


Here in Ohio at "Select Sires" Bull facility, they never enter a stall without an Exit door OPEN..

Yea, they have had employees shoved between the narrow pipes that make up the walls and those pipes don't look more than 4" apart...

Serious injuries..Life-Threatening injuries..

I used to help haul cattle and I know..a Bull can be one BAD BOY...

Ron.
 
(quoted from post at 21:45:59 03/10/16) Yea i can believe the amout of rounds to kill it if they did not get a good close head shot . I go with a buddy on what we call the North east Ohio safari when cows and bull get out and can not be rounded up and put back in with the herd they go Farrell and i am here to tell ya they are dangerous . we have been working on 6 that have been out for over a year and sofar we have shot four with two to go . The last round Eugene hit the one bull at about 200 yds with a good head shot from a 270 with a 150 grain and the bullet ricocheted off the skull and exited out by the horns , it dazed it for about ten seconds and then all heck broke loose . I was tofar away to do any good with my 30-30 and the other guys with us all had 308's and one 30-06 It took five more rounds from those rifles before it went down and Eugene ran up and cut it's throat as it was still not dead. after that round has brought forth then new rifle build that is in the works . Like the old saying mess with the bull and get the horn . I feel bad for the family over this as that man probably been around that bull for years and never had a problem , but you can not trust them and they are way more stronger then you are and out weigh you 10 to 1 . eugene does butchering everyday and normally he downs them with a 22 usen CCI copper jacketed solids mini mags from five to ten feet . That Bull we did that day had and inch or better hide on the skull and the bone was really thick . Just like messen with a cow and her calf , one may not bother you while the next one will try it's darnest to kill you . Stay safe around live stock and as we get older Don't work alone your not as fast as you use to be .
Click to expand...

You might want to look at a .600 Nitro.

Gene
 
HK, an old friend of mine, told me that one time when he was a kid a peed off bull chased him around an up-right silo 3 times before he got far enuf ahead to climb the ladder.
 
I would guess it took 33 rounds due to the ammo we as police officers use to protect the public. Over penetration in a human body is a concern so our rifle rounds are designed not to penetrate more than 14 inches in a human body. I'm sure it's much less in a full sized, well muscled (probably steroided up) bull. There is a reason the police don't carry .308's and lager calibers....we don't want to shoot through walls after we shoot someone and hit an innocent person.

As for the animals that were released by their owner in Easter Ohio a few years ago...there was a very real threat to the public from the predators. Giraffes? You better check your facts bushhogpapa. All shot up? Guess you know better than most. I don't know much because I'm too busy using steroids, working out, and shooting thousands of rounds and hitting nothing. You are correct about Select Sires though, my Uncle used to run the place.

I'm going to head back out to the barn to work on my favorite stress relief exercise.....working on my old tractors. Steroids create a lot of stress! LOL ( happy to pee in a cup just for you Bushhog....any time!)
 
Ah yea that is the operative word SHOULD . That Day Eugene's shot to the head was with in a 1/2 inch of being dead on with the 270 and all it did was daze that bull and made him madder , and it went plum nuts . Put Eugene and the farmer up a tree as it charged them . The other five guys over on that side were the only ones that had shots at it i was on the far west side of this field about 400 plus yards away but had a ring side seat to the action. They were driving them away from the Turn Pike out of the heavy cover that they hide in and out into more open ground . From where i was setting i saw them break cover and they stopped just outside of the brush . That is when i called Eugene and told him where they came out . so him and the farmer were the first to get a bead on them and i saw Eugen set up for the shot usen a wild cherry as a rest , the bull was the one that first turned looking at him and Eugene took the shot . Saw the bulls head move and he staggered for a second or so and it looked like he was going down . But no he shook his head and you could see blood thur the glasses and then he looked wright at them as Eugene was tryen to line up with a follow up shot that bull started to charge . Eugene and the farmer both took a couple fast shots and missed and then went up the tree . that is when the other guys started shooting . Then one of the cows turned and headed for the other guys and three well placed shots to put her down and the last two took off into the brush back towards the turn pike . So we stopped the chase for that day and got those two drug out and dressed . That bull was so big that the farmers big bobcat had a problem lifting it . I know our LX 665 would not have lifted it . Between the bull and the cow once butchered and halfed those to sure set Eugene's one ton down on the springs for the ride to the locker .
 
I'm teling you,anybody who's had cattle for any length of time and hasn't been hit by a bull or a new mama is one lucky SOB. When people start going on about how docile their cattle are,and how they trust them with their life,all I can do is shake my head. They're literally playing Russian roulette. Those animals aren't pets,simple as that.

Now start the rant about kids wearing bicycle helmets.
 
my uncle always kept the bull (dairy) in his own pen and had the nurse pen ajoining so he could let the cow/heifer in the nurse pen then from outside open the pen to let the cow into the bull pen (not the other way around) so they never had to go in. If they needed to muck it out they moved him over to the nurse pen. He was never outside except the day he arrived and they day he left (old age)

a buddy of mine was telling a story of when he was a kid and his dad was working on the manure spreader and the bull got out and came after his dad. The bull got his head under the spreader and flipped it over and broke the hitch off the tractor.
 
I wouldn't let a kid near a bull without a bicycle helmet and knee pads. Stick one of those orange flags down the back of their pants just for good measure.

Good enough? :)
 
OK, I love the rants about the cops because everyone I know who has a major problem with cops has either themselves or a family member receive a lot of tickets or been in other trouble with the law.

Guys you have to look at this not through the eyes of someone who's done their own killing for butchering but from the point that they don't know all the little tricks ands sweat spots. They get taught to shoot center mass on bad guys. Look at center mass on a bull. The wrong spot to shoot. And if the animal was agitated to start with the fun really begins.

Now take it a step further. Most cop shops don't give an officer much in the way of training ammo because their budget doesn't support it. Some departments it's only 50 or so rounds a year. Anything more than that the officers have to pay for out of pocket. Are there departments that give out more training ammo? Sure some but not all.

Here is another little tidbit for you. In shootouts the average cops who have the highest miss factor are the ones who score better when qualifying. The reason being is over confidence in their ability so they try longer or more difficult shots.

Rick
 
Well,I was talking about how some folks think that even using the least little bit of common sense and caution around livestock equated to not letting a kid ride a bicycle without a helmet,but wrapping them in bubble wrap might not be a bad idea if they're around a bull or a new mama.
 
Tractor vet do you do a lot of shoot of or taking of large animals like this? If you do have you ever thought of going to a 45-70 government? It has better knock down than what your are using and is good for 200-400 yard shots but will reach out to 600 yards.
 
The older boy and I were talking about that last paragraph last night when he brought up this story. I had a downer cow that had to be put own last fall. The younger boy has disposed of them before and knows where to hit them. I reminded him,an imaginary cross between the top of the head and eyeball. He shot her twice with a 45 and walked away. Before he got to the corner of the barn,she was crawling. He had to shoot her in the face three more times to stop her. The older boy said yea,it was that big pistol that was the reason he had to shoot her five times. He said that monster bullet just mushroomed when it hit her skull,if he'd have hit her there with a smaller caliber,she probably would have expired with the first shot. If they gut shot that bull 33 times,it would have taken a while to have much effect on him.
 
(quoted from post at 11:00:22 03/11/16) The older boy and I were talking about that last paragraph last night when he brought up this story. I had a downer cow that had to be put own last fall. The younger boy has disposed of them before and knows where to hit them. I reminded him,an imaginary cross between the top of the head and eyeball. He shot her twice with a 45 and walked away. Before he got to the corner of the barn,she was crawling. He had to shoot her in the face three more times to stop her. The older boy said yea,it was that big pistol that was the reason he had to shoot her five times. He said that monster bullet just mushroomed when it hit her skull,if he'd have hit her there with a smaller caliber,she probably would have expired with the first shot. If they gut shot that bull 33 times,it would have taken a while to have much effect on him.
Click to expand...

The average soldier or Marine would do the same thing. All training is shooting center of visible mass. Center of mass on a bull would be gut shooting it.

Rick
 
I don't want anyone to think I was criticizing the officers in question. Heck, it took me four trys to kill one box elder bug this morning.
 
I had to put one down a little over a year ago but it was only about 6-700 pounder. I drew the imaginary cross and used a 22 mag shell. One shot and it was all she wrote. I think your older boy was right.

That's what I figured when my wife told me about it. Somebody was just shooting into the body of the bull. Its still a sad way to go for someone who's probably been around cattle all his life.
 
I'm sure the farmer killed was just trying to do the right thing helping his neighbor out, probably what he had done many times before. Might just have been a little slower than those times, or maybe completely unfamiliar with the care of animals. I have never been hurt by mine through the Grace of God, but am wary nonetheless.

I am sure the officers who shot the animal thought their weapons were enough to do the job with fewer shots, and I am glad no one else was injured in the incident.

I remember reading the story about the infamous MOB executioner, who used a 22 short, right behind the ear; it went in and ricocheted around inside the skull- far more stealthy and effective than larger calibers.
 
When I was a kid I shot a cow in the head with a 12 gauge slug. It didn't penetrate its skull just pealed the skin back on its head. And before anyone bust my balls about it the cow was already dead when I shot it.
 
Now i dont know who Bill Cazmeyer is. But i do know that mean ol bull wouldnt like that 2x4 thumped down on that head. Maybe i should have said an Axe lol
 
We had a angus/holstein heifer about 300lbs and she liked to have the top of her head rubbed. I was rubbing her head and for some reason she put her head between my legs and flipped me right over her back. It happened so quick I didn't know what happened.
 
Sounds like that Me,Myself,and Irene movie with Jim Carey when he found the injured cow in the highway and was going to put it out of it's misery and he shot it 9 times and it ended up making a full recovery from it's injuries. He was trying to choke it out and it just kept kicking.
 
Come to Idaho where instead of shooting the bull they shoot the rancher that owns the bull . Tell me again how all cops are great and the only people that don't like them are thugs
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