New Hampshire dealership law ruling

Looks like Deere is taking this to the US Supreme Court and no doubt there will be other parties teaming up with Deere. I wonder how much of this came out of the closing of the then oldest US Deere dealer in New Hampshire? I have always maintained a good relationship with my local Deere dealer but I certainly do not want to see a bunch of consolidation. By the way the consolidation that happened to date with Deere here in NY lags greatly behind Case IH and to some degree NH. When the Case IH merger happened back in the 1980's I think the executioner wielded his ax wide as a number of popular IH dealers closed in the region.

taking "this" so what is "this" to higher court

The trouble is that few states will enact the same thing. The manufactures need their wings trimmed. They can do whatever they want to dealers with little recourse available to the dealer. The effect on famers and consumers ability to have any price competition seems not to be a concern to lawmakers. They are allowing monopolies to be formed in entire geographic areas. John Deere is the worst in this in that they will deny the dealer anyway to pass along his store unless it is to some one JD approves. Which just about always a dealership group never a single dealership anymore. I hope that JD get beat in court and the law would be come national. It is about as likely as me winning the lotto. Big business has control much like they did on the late 1800s. We need to enforce the anti-trust laws we have currently have.

Vas is los?

What the heck are you talking about?

Is this something to do with R.N.Johnson in Walpole NH. closing.

You mean like railroads: CP trying to take over NSX and CSX and a few more. You would have one railroad for the most part!!!! way OT I guess.

Amen J D Seller! Untill the antitrust laws are enforced things will continue to spiral downward for working people.

JD you hit it right on the head. All our politicians keep harping about the "top 2%" and their $$$$ and power. The way they got there and will continue is just what you said. Our anti-trust laws and preditory marketing laws etc are all on the books but paid-off politicians/regulatory agencies will NOt enforce them. Price fixing is illegal too but just how do you suppose 500 gas stations in a region ALL raise their price to the same amount all within an hour of each other?? We already have "monopolies" in many businesses and no repercussions and they know there never will be. Little man (competition) forced out , middle class disappears and "pay to play" government just goes on as usual.I doubt Trumps effectivness when all of both Senate and House are all still "pay to play" pawns. I think it's going to take more than just the "nnalert phenomena" to ever get this house cleaned.

I was watching a travel show yesterday about Albania since the end of the Soviet occupation. Things actually looked pretty rosy there having had the opportunity to start out with old customs and a whole new government and a new economy. Almost made me want to look in to moving there. If I was a younger man.

I don't think Deere is required by law to compete with themselves. They have every right in the world to limit market competition within the confines of their own company. This is not anti trust. This is not eliminating competition in the view of the law. There are other tractor and equipment companies with their dealer networks. These are the legal competitors to Deere. If you don't like how Deere and it's dealership are acting go buy a different brand of tractor. This may not be the easy choice or the choice you like but you still have a choice.

THIS must be what he is writing about...
DEERE

(quoted from post at 11:34:11 03/06/16) The trouble is that few states will enact the same thing. The manufactures need their wings trimmed. They can do whatever they want to dealers with little recourse available to the dealer. The effect on famers and consumers ability to have any price competition seems not to be a concern to lawmakers. They are allowing monopolies to be formed in entire geographic areas. John Deere is the worst in this in that they will deny the dealer anyway to pass along his store unless it is to some one JD approves. Which just about always a dealership group never a single dealership anymore. I hope that JD get beat in court and the law would be come national. It is about as likely as me winning the lotto. Big business has control much like they did on the late 1800s. We need to enforce the anti-trust laws we have currently have.

Click to expand...

All that anti trust stuff went out with Reagan.

The same laws about price fixing do apply to JD. Here is an example: If there are four car dealerships in the same chain they can not share your price quote between all four car dealerships. They are bared by law from doing so. Yet JD requires its dealerships use a program called quick Quote. So in my area the dealership group owns 10 stores. If I get a quote at any one of the stores that same quote is shared with all 10 stores. So you will not get a different price or trade difference form any other dealership in the group besides the first one you receive. I do believe that is price fixing. If it is illegal between car dealerships then it should be illegal between farm equipment dealerships too.

Also what about the dealerships that are owned by independent owners, should it be legal for JD to tell them who they can sell their PRIVATE business to??? JD makes the dealership about worthless on the open market in that you can not sell it to another person without JD blessing. That blessing is limited to dealership groups now. I know this for a FACT. One local dealership was up for sale, three others and I banded together to buy the store to keep it locally owned. Our financial solidness was way better than any requirement JD had for a dealership owner but JD limited the renewal contract to the existing dealer group only. Meaning they would NOT give our buying group a franchise contract if we bought the store. That should be illegal.

It is OK for the company to clearly spell out the minimum requirements financially for a dealership owner. That should be the limit of what they can do.

Another little trick they did was changing the dealership contracts. About 10-12 years ago JD came out with a "new" dealership contract. This new contract had all kinds of market share requirements tied with volume discounts and such. It was as totally different form the contracts that dealers signed years ago. The original contracts did not have an expiration date on them but JD strong armed all the dealerships into signing them by denying any sales programs to dealerships that did not sign the new contract. Those sales programs are often discounts of 7-10% of dealer cost. So it blackmail the dealers into signing the new contract.

I read where JD is telling the dealers in New Hampshire that they will not be able to have those same sales programs if the new law is upheld.

The anti trust laws should be enforced!!! If the current ones do not protect the average citizen then change them to where they do. Having 2-3 national meat packers should be illegal under anti trust laws. Any company having more than a 25% or so of any market should be illegal too. This would be Walmart and JD. There should be limits on market share from companies with foreign ownership. Banks should not be able to own insurance companies. Chemical companies should not be able to own seed companies. Look at how few companies own the majority of the seed sold in this country.

Some jd dealers got removed down here because they were keeping the $3000 cash back and not giving it to the customer. JD shut em down!! Then another jd dealer came in and took over the territory. I guess its bad to cheat the customer per JD.

I did.. went elsewhere.. Years ago I said that Deere was due for a fall after they appointed a financial "dweeb" from Boeing as CEO/president. I did this on the showroom floor of the local Deere dealership... under full disclosure, as a graduate engineer I can't stand accounting/financial types. I will not get into the particulars of what went wrong with Deere over the years.. but they are slipping. The New Hampshire issue is just a reaction to slipping market share and the world wide bullying tactics that Deere is involved in... check South America. If you are engaged in anything but conventional agriculture.. rest assured Deere is spending big bucks against you. Last presidential cycle Deere spent almost 1 million bucks supporting policies detrimental to the sustainable/organic movement. After years with Deere I was surprised to find that the other colors are just as good.. and in many cases better... I guess you could say I used to drink the cool aid...thankfully, I'm no longer an addict.

Yep, them darned nnalert are behind all of the country's problems.

I think you are mixing up two totally different businesses. Car dealerships sell to the general public or what we think of as consumers. Farm equipment dealers sell to other businesses. Your farm is a business and Deere sells to it. I am no legal expert but anti trust is usually about protecting the consumer. A person's farm business is not a consumer. Yes dealers do sell some thing to the general public consumer but this is not their business model.

IMHO dealerships, customers and manufacturers face multiple problems.

Manufacturer needs to make a profit. Competiton between the likes of JD, Kubota, Agco, New Holland - one would think helps keep it real.

I know others have great dealers to work with, but around me, for me, they are a necessary evil. As long as my wallet is open to buy something new, we're best friends. Ask the guy to look something up behind the parts counter, good luck. For years now, I take the parts diagrams and/or part number I need so as to avoid the hassle - and the "they don't make that part any more" vs I can't find the part, let me look deeper or ask someone.

I had a tractor repaired years ago, someone I think camped out on that job. Total ripoff. Dealer shrugged their shoulders, couldn't care less. They are a small dealer, crap looking store and lot. Maybe they're ok - just hasn't been my experience. I can't see how a mega JD dealership could be any worse. It's a pleasure to get a quote and buy from some else - not because I'm ------ (which I am), but because they don't earn my business via price, parts or service. I have zero locality to this bunch. If they ever make a sale, it will be on 100% for the benefit of this buyer, not because they are in my back yard and I'm a loyal customer.

If JD and MF, etc dealers are fixing prices, that ain't right. If two differently owned stores are fixing prices, that ain't right. If multiple dealerships owned by the same company are fixing prices, fine, but, don't expect my business unless you're fixed price suits my needs.

I think the gov should stay out of this.

I'm no dem,but I don't think Reagan saw what was coming when he deregulated business. I have to wonder if he would have,if he could have seen what was coming. This has gone way too far.

Hi after reading the link Bob posted, I think JD and the rest should be made to comply. I know perfectly good car and tractor dealers that have been terminated that had good sales, as they would not spend millions on new buildings they didn't need, service sold not the building. I know years ago back in the U.K we made more selling Belarus tractors, than a multi dealer did that sold Deere from one yard and The Belarus from another yard. He Told us that in person. He said basically Deere had an open line to your bank account and if they wanted money they took it, or told you what to spend!
If Deere vanished tomorrow the only way it would affect me would be not being able to get some parts for our 316 lawn mower. I flat out refuse to buy over priced Green farm equipment !. The only reason they sell alot is there are to many guys color blind and drinking the cool aid still. Some guys are starting to realise that it Don't need green tin and yellow wheels to make money farming. The change will come and Deere can suffer! The only guys I ever feel sorry for in that company are the ones that loose their jobs as Deere get more ignorant and greedy!.
Regards Robert

I might be wrong,not knowing all of their dealer sales goals,but it seems to me like they're trying to apply the same cookie cutter model to every part of the country. Some places,it's just not possible to meet the same volume as dealers in other areas. There just aren't that many dollars in the ag economy in those areas. Farm size and the nature of what can be produced prevent that.
I'm just glad to see that others are finally catching on to what I had to face fifteen years or more ago. Maybe now I won't be the only one on this forum who's branded a "Deere hater".

If somebody could just make everybody who's employed at Deere and Company,from the CEO to the kid who sweeps the floors in the super store,to read Plow Peddler. Walt Beuscher covered dealer loyalty so well in that book.

I understand that everybody's situation is different but in my case Deere has seldom been the bad guy. I just believe in balance and we have gone past that heading toward an era similar to the Guilded Age of the late 19th Century. Balance is all I care about and I will vote for anybody that promotes that idea whether they have a D or R after their name on the ballet.

I don't think Reagan saw it coming also. I thought what he did was right at the time based on a sense of fair play which never came to be. It might have worked better if there were a greater sense of ethics in the boardrooms of US corporations.

(quoted from post at 15:30:32 03/06/16) I don't think Reagan saw it coming also. I thought what he did was right at the time based on a sense of fair play which never came to be. It might have worked better if there were a greater sense of ethics in the boardrooms of US corporations.

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Ethics? Corporations are amoral at best. Applying concepts like "fairness" is outside their charter. Their business is to make money. Look at Sears vs. WallMart - prior to Reagan, Sears could never expand too much and put Montgomery Wards out of business. Once Reagan came in, it was "business friendly". WallMart ate them up.

Personally, I think Reagan was a actor, even as a President. He was a aw shucks kind of character, behind which the corporate types hid. I don't think he really knew much of anything, especially in his 2nd term.

As far as forcing dealer building upgrades goes that is a mixed bag. When Deere pushed that on their dealers here in the 1970's quite a few would have had problems bringing in a cab equipped tractor or combine. The closest Deere dealer to us in the 1960's was smack dab in the middle of a village. They lacked the room to simply modify what they had plus things were changing. People were becoming more removed from agriculture if they lacked a direct connection to it so staying in town was getting to be less practical due in part to noise and liability. Not all pushes here were justified but a fair amount were. Would you want your few year old 4010 or 4020 worked on in the elements because the dealer had no room in the shop to do it? Would you want to be told that a carb kit for an A had to be ordered because the dealer could no longer stock it because of lack of shelf space? Making somebody build a Tajmahal is ridiculous but in a lot of cases Deere and other suppliers were looking out for the customer.

The dealers won in NH Supreme Court on every point except one obscure question brought up by Husquavarna (sp?) The manufacturer's Association then filed an appeal with the UIS Supreme Court. I have to think the US Supremes have better things to do than hear this. I was involved in this from the beginning and getting this bill through the NH Legislature was fairly painless. The Manufacturers do not want this because it limits their control of the dealers and requires the manufacturers to pay parts markup and labor costs on warrantee work. Formerly a dealer had to build a fudge factor into each sale to cover uncompensated warrantee work. Some dealers were better than others when it came to giving "free" service under warrantee. The manufacturers know this law will travel to other states, so they are challenging it with all they've got. Most of the tractor dealers are members of the NH Auto Dealers Association, and the dealers association caused this bill to be introduced. I am the Executive Director of the Auto and Truck Recyclers Association of NH, and also their lobbyist, so I am at the Legislature all the time. I attended every legislative hearing on this bill.

Good timing. Just finished reading Oliver Tractors by T. Herbert Morrell a few minutes ago and moved my book mark to The Plow Peddler for the next read.

In NH the market would be primarily compact equipment sold to consumers, with a few commercial accounts thrown in. Not the same as the midwest market.

It isn't just Ag equipment dealers either. My friend was forced out of excavation equipment by the economy 8 years ago. He sold out to Anderson a very big multi-state chain. They get breaks that make it impossible for the independent to compete. I was talking to a friend this evening that has sold heavy trucks for about fifty years. The company that he works for is selling their Peterbilt dealership back to Paccar. Paccar has been trying to push them into opening two more dealerships or lose the one they have. Paccar wants dealers to have at least three locations. Eliminates competition so dealers and manufacturers can make more.

Fiat cnh closed the dealership my buddy worked at told them build a mega dealer or close the doors . They closed the doors the local mega cnh was going to buy them out but the crawfished the little dealer got closed the big one stays open

Well, my comment is this.....
Griping about the way things are in this forum is not going to change a thing. Activism and lobbying might. Either way, telling other farmers of like mind might feel good for a little while, but what REALLY needs to happen is contacting your legislators. Make known the injustice and inequalities of the existing system >>>>>TO PEOPLE THAT CAN CHANGE THINGS<<<<<. I can't do a thing for you but to sympathize, patronize, and say how right you are. Beyond that, I can do nothing.

You think having the government more involved would make things better? You must live somewhere else.......

When you talk about limits on how much business anyone can do and you want a law to control it. you sound like a Communist or socialist that's just nuts. If you spread all the tractors out to say four co. you put a end to the R&D work and pretty soon all our stuff will be junk like they made in Russia years ago. wake up this is still a free county

Only good result of a nnalert presidency I can see, is the boat may get rocked hard enough to throw some career politicians overboard.