Would it be worth it?

I was reading some archived posts and came upon a post about Oil Bath filters verses Dry element filters. There was a lot of information about both. 90% or more air filtration for dry vs 20-30% for oil (at idle). I've also noticed its a lot based on personal preferences. I know my tractor is from 1970 and has been running good since then with it on there. But if I wanted to protect the engine even better, what size of dry filter would I get? Do I just take out the old oil bath filter, cup and everything and just place the dry inside it? Or would I need to take the oil bath system out and purchase a new housing to put in line from the breather cap to the air intake? The post I was reading is here:
http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=ttalk&th=544647

I don't think you could just gut the oil bath out. The dry element has to fit tight and seal. I wouldn't bother. I've got two that I run daily that have oil baths on them.

If your tractor has an oil bath filter
on it it has survived for 50 years +/-.
I think it will survive what ever is
asked of it now.

(quoted from post at 12:57:55 02/23/16) I was reading some archived posts and came upon a post about Oil Bath filters verses Dry element filters. There was a lot of information about both. 90% or more air filtration for dry vs 20-30% for oil (at idle). I've also noticed its a lot based on personal preferences. I know my tractor is from 1970 and has been running good since then with it on there. But if I wanted to protect the engine even better, what size of dry filter would I get? Do I just take out the old oil bath filter, cup and everything and just place the dry inside it? Or would I need to take the oil bath system out and purchase a new housing to put in line from the breather cap to the air intake? The post I was reading is here:
http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=ttalk&th=544647

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As big a one as you can find. Basically if the aperture on the engine side is the same size or larger than the original you will be OK. It's only if restricts flow that you will wind up with problems. The other consideration is dust conditions. Dusty conditions require more surface area so they don't plug as fast. So a small filter that fits the induction may not be big enough.

As far as the naysayers are concerned: Back in the day of the oil bath on a car engine most car engines were starting to burn oil sometime after 50,000 miles and got rebuilt between 80,000 and 100,000 miles. Today engines with paper element filters are running 200,000 plus miles without being oil burners. So the car companies have lost sales of new cars and parts by going to the dry filter. So how is that ripping the customer off? And most people are not buying OEM filters!

I had an industrial engine a few years ago. Built in 1960. As far as oil it came 3 ways. Without a filter for applications where the engine was only run a few hours a year in a clean environment, remote or spin on filter. It was also offered with both oil bath and dry paper filters for air. According to the owners manual for the engine max engine life before rebuild with the oil bath air cleaner was about 5,000 hours in that clean environment. Also stated that with the dry paper filter it would run 5K hours in "extreme" environment and 10K hours in a clean environment. Now I expect the "clean environment" would have been as a stand by generator.

But I know, I know, it's a secret plot to make you spend more money! And I know your tractor is X number of years old and still running. I really doubt it's running on original liners, pistons, rings or bearings or even the first rebuild. I'll let you naysayers who believe it's a plot in on a little secret. The ability to keep a secret is directly proportional to the number of people who know it. And in something like the automotive/truck/AG/construction equipment industries keeping a secret like that would be impossible.

Rick

From what I have seen on small engines and old tractors with oil bath air cleaners they do a better job of keeping the valve guides in better shape. If it has an oil bath leave it on there. Won't hurt to take it off and hot water and soap power wash it out though.

If this is a working tractor, and I assume it is, you would need a large industrial type paper filter. Looking at spending a considerable amount of money on the housing and plumbing. Then there is the cost of replacing elements, depending on the size, $30+ each time it's replaced.

Also this unit will most likely not fit in place of the original, which means finding a practical place for it.

If it were mine, I would just keep the original filter in place and keep it well maintained. Have you been cleaning the element also? Many people don't realize that also needs cleaning, not just the oil cup.

I'd split the difference and add some kind of pre-filter.

The old style "bag" type vacuum cleaners work just great too until the pores in the paper get clogged with dust. The new self cleaning designs clean better and even when half full,still clean the same as when you started. Same principal. An oil bath is self cleaning. As far as engines only lasting 80,000 with oil bath cleaners, had nothing to do with the style of air cleaner. Slip-shod machining procedures and worn out equipment equaled shoddy tolerances from one to the other. Low tech metalurgy and low tech lubricants. Even electronic fuel management saves the new engines from washed down cylinder walls from choking and pumping to start old engine designs. Even the simple act of trying to start a cold engine over and over until it stays running as apposed to now-a-days you just hit key and it starts and stays going to get oil everywhere quicker.Almost forgot "lack of maintenance". Sorry OldTanker, I just don't buy that they wore out from inadequate air filtration. JMHO For a hobby tractor use whatever floats yur boat, probably will never make a difference either way.Just more work for nothing IMO.

I suppose if a newer version of your tractor has a dry filter, you could adapt one to your tractor. You would have to be exceptionally good at fabrication to turn an oil bath canister into a dry one. If the dry element isn't sealed in there just right, it's worthless. Consider- any tractor oil bath I've seen has the air flow down through the center into the oil bath, then the air carries oil up into the mesh. The flow in a paper element is the opposite. From the larger, outside surface, to the inside, then out through the center. I would never make the change. If I had a circumstance where I thought the oil bath needed help, I would more likely add a pre cleaner.

Almost forgot, one of the highly touted high performance/off road filters is the famed K/N. Nothing but an open pore paper filter (for flow) and a "wetting agent" applied to catch the small stuff. Sounds a whole lot like the theory of an old oil bath to me.

What does it cost to regularly change the oil in an oil bath air cleaner for 10 years verses replacing a dry air filter?

There's test results floating around (I last found them on BobisTheOilGuy website) where they did a very thorough and scientific comparison of oil and air filters. The K&N did flow more air BUT it did let in more dirt. Not a big deal running down the highway with your hotrod or when your professional race engine gets torn down after every race.

(quoted from post at 15:04:52 02/23/16) What does it cost to regularly change the oil in an oil bath air cleaner for 10 years verses replacing a dry air filter?

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That depends on how many times you have to rebuild it based on how much dirty air gets through that oil bath!

Rick

(quoted from post at 14:21:42 02/23/16) The old style "bag" type vacuum cleaners work just great too until the pores in the paper get clogged with dust. The new self cleaning designs clean better and even when half full,still clean the same as when you started. Same principal. An oil bath is self cleaning. As far as engines only lasting 80,000 with oil bath cleaners, had nothing to do with the style of air cleaner. Slip-shod machining procedures and worn out equipment equaled shoddy tolerances from one to the other. Low tech metalurgy and low tech lubricants. Even electronic fuel management saves the new engines from washed down cylinder walls from choking and pumping to start old engine designs. Even the simple act of trying to start a cold engine over and over until it stays running as apposed to now-a-days you just hit key and it starts and stays going to get oil everywhere quicker.Almost forgot "lack of maintenance". Sorry OldTanker, I just don't buy that they wore out from inadequate air filtration. JMHO For a hobby tractor use whatever floats yur boat, probably will never make a difference either way.Just more work for nothing IMO.

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And I don't buy the oil bath is better argument either. Yes some of what you say is true. But oil bath engines got around 50-70 K miles and the first of the paper filters jumped that up to 110-120. In one year on the same engine. Explain that away. Just because it was designed that way doesn't mean it was better, often it's just the opposite. Most often the old way went away because the new way was better.

Rick

I was always told that the oil bath was for sever service. You see construction
equipment with oil baths that is in dust all day. Why would you want to change. And it
cheaper and does a better job.

One thing that I've repeatedly noticed about oil bath filters is the misconception that the dirty air gets a "bath" by going through the oil. Not quite, although the oil is wicked up into the "brillo pad" that is usually in an air bath filter and air does go around the oily metal mesh.
In reality, when going through an air bath filter, the path of the air takes a 180-degree turn very fast and centrifugal force sends the dirt into the pool of oil where it is held.
There are no huge volumes of air bubbling through the pool of oil, as seemingly most people think.
Both have pros and cons. Paper gets the air cleaner. Oil baths can hold more dirt.

Well the main reason I asked, I just bought this 5000. It's my first tractor. I was doing routine maintenance on it yesterday before all this rain set in. Greasing, ect. Well I found online the filter was behind the grill in front of the radiator. I took it off and the Brillo pad/steel wool was completely rusted. There was a mass in the bottom that looked like 2 year old jello. So it tells me it's not even been checked in years. I looked on the site and all I found was a complete oil bath canister replacement and no actual Brillo pad/steel wool. So if I'm going to spend the money to fix it, I was wondering if it would be better to just replace it with a dry air filter.

This site sells the filter housing for that tractor don't know if its a oil bath or a dry but you should check it out. the price was only some $50.00 Jim

My 5000 has 9700 hours on it or so , oil bath . Bought it 6 years ago put maybe 300 on
it , pretty sure they work good enough for normal use.

I am glad that they no longer use oil bath on cars. Too messy. in a wreck the air cleaner could spill the oil and burn, The oil bath was heavy and bulky. Tractors and construction equipment I would just what I have. My older ones have oil bath and the newer ones have oil bath.

(quoted from post at 16:37:22 02/23/16) I was always told that the oil bath was for sever service. You see construction
equipment with oil baths that is in dust all day. Why would you want to change. And it
cheaper and does a better job.

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All the newer construction equipment I've been around plus new farm tractors have all had dry filter elements.

You can look it up on line. Oil bath doesn't do a better job.

Rick