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Car with two cycle engine.

F

fixerupper

Well-known Member
Back in the early 60's when I was in Iowa City for a week or so I saw these little cars with smoking two cycle engines running around. Does anyone remember them and what brand were they? Something tells me they came from France? They were pretty small compared to the big cars we had back then. I don't remember if they had one rear wheel or two. It's been a long time ago and I was 11 or 12 years old at the time.
 
I owned a 1962 German made DKW with a three cylinder two cycle engine. As I recall, it was about 750cc. I loved that car!!
 
Saabs were probably the most common but they could of been a DAF or a DKW, with the cold war going on at that time you could
eliminate a Trabant or Wartburg as they were from Eastern Germany
 
In the 60s (50s?), Saab sold three cylinder, two cycle automobiles made in Sweeden in the US.

I recall adding two cycle oil to the fuel tank before adding 5 gallons of gasoline when I was a "refueling technician" at a full service gas station in the late 60s/early 70s.

Dean
 
A friend had a Subaru with a 2 stroke/ 2 or 3 cylinder engine when we were in High School. It was a late
'60's model.
I remember we picked it up and stood it up on end against a light pole one day... wish I still had the
picture!
 
Back in the day--I worked for a large independent garage. We serviced and did warranty work for a small Saab dealer.
If I remember correctly ???
Late 60 models had an "oil injection" They had a tank under the hood that held about a gallon of two stroke oil.
Here is the part I am not totally sure of---If driver ran out of oil, engine would be kicked out of time. As I remember, driver had to rotate a wheel, on distributor, and count the clicks, like 100. If wheel was rotated a number different then 100, distributor had to be serviced.
Someone correct me if I am wrong.
 
The carb is together. The float bowl level crept to the top after three hours of sitting with the mineral spirits i was using as 'fuel' turned on so i will call it good. I hope to have it feeding a running engine by spring.
 
I always wanted a Saab with the two cycle engine as a teenager. I
looked at some used ones which had 200-300k miles on the original
engines. Not many cars could do that in the 60's. Also 30-40 MPG. The local dealer at the time said that they had a lifetime engine warranty. Done in by the emissions requirements of the 70's.
 
Isetta/'Egg' was a single cylinder 4 stroke engine derived from BMW- had rear wheel set very close and was considered a 'cyclecar' as a motorcycle in some countries, got taxed and licensed as a cheaper motorcycle instead of car. SAAB had a 2 cycle , 3 cylinder in 750 and later 850cc derived from prewar DKW. The latest of 750 and the 850s had the oil injection system. DKW/ Auto Union had the 750, 850 and last 1000cc 3 cylinder 2 strokes- a 'military' version had a dual range 4 speed tranny for 8 forward, 2 reverse. The Trabant was east German made in the eastern DKW factory leftover from WW2- what the Russians didn't take back to soviet union. Fugi/Subaru had the little 360cc 2 cylinder 2 stroke that looked sort of like a VW Beetle that had been shrunk. Was a Japanese domestic 'Kei' class that got imported to US when laws were a bit looser regarding smoke and collision resistance. Jeep dealer I worked for in early 1970s handled Subaru also, some of the little cars came in for service. English Reliant three wheelers were 1 in front, 2 in back like the Asian 'Tuck-Tucks'- 2 stroke single Villiers and twins from the motorcycle makers. Suzuki had a 2 stroke, 2 cylinder 500cc sort of SUV sold under Samurai name in early 1970s. stopped imports about late 1970s when emissions laws changed, model name reused 1990s for the 4 stroke little sort of CJ3 sized 4x4. Lots of the little 2 strokes made in various countries post WW2, many trikes treated as motorcycles so affordable by many. Not many made 2 strokes now, smoke allowed out tailpipe laws changed and even the offroad ATVs, snowmobiles and dirt bikes going to 4 stroke in US and most parts of Europe, Asia. Minor exception yet for some 2 stroke 49cc and a few 125cc in some places. Bajaj of India has a commercial trike with a 175cc Kawasaki derived 4 stroke engine that was advertised as legal in California 2010. RN
 
I have owned 2 of them. Saab 93 (1960) was 3 cylinder 750cc single carb piston port Front wheel drive with 3 on the tree. Mix in tank. And a 1967 Saab 96 Monte carlo 3 cylinder 850cc Front drive road rally version. Three Solex downdraft carbs (mix in tank) 4 on the tree. The engine was all ball and roller bearing with 8 moving parts. 3 pistons 3 rods, one crank, and a distributor shaft. The interior had many wooden components. Very fun to drive. Jim
 
One of the dealer's salesmen picked me up at the Baltimore airport in the middle 70's in his new Diesel Saab. I finally asked him if would do Zero-to-60 in the same day? It was really dangerous getting onto the freeway with a vehicle that couldn't accelerate fast enough to get into the stream of traffic.
 
(quoted from post at 18:13:02 01/23/16) I have owned 2 of them. Saab 93 (1960) was 3 cylinder 750cc single carb piston port Front wheel drive with 3 on the tree. Mix in tank. And a 1967 Saab 96 Monte carlo 3 cylinder 850cc Front drive road rally version. Three Solex downdraft carbs (mix in tank) 4 on the tree. The engine was all ball and roller bearing with 8 moving parts. 3 pistons 3 rods, one crank, and a distributor shaft. The interior had many wooden components. Very fun to drive. Jim
Click to expand...

OK, let me clarify my question since I'm sure the Saab uses oil gas mixture. You don't mix it but it is injected in the fuel and the fuel lubes the engine as well burns it. I wondering if there is a 2 stroke that burns gasoline only and oil lubricates only. This way you would have the advantage a power stroke every time without all the smoke of an oil gass mix.
 
All the '70,s > japanese dirt bikes and later snowmobiles had oil injection / you didn't mix gas and oil as you asked.
 
(quoted from post at 00:13:02 01/24/16) I have owned 2 of them. Saab 93 (1960) was 3 cylinder 750cc single carb piston port Front wheel drive with 3 on the tree. Mix in tank.

Jim, A neighbor of mine had one of those Saabs back around 1962.
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seemed it had "freewheeling" or at least it sounded like that as the engine seemed to go to idle whenever the foot was lifted off the accelerator . I remember thinking it sounded like a popcorn popper. It was cheap transportation but, as I remember, quite well built for what it was.
Click to expand...
 
(quoted from post at 03:17:38 01/24/16)
(quoted from post at 00:13:02 01/24/16) I have owned 2 of them. Saab 93 (1960) was 3 cylinder 750cc single carb piston port Front wheel drive with 3 on the tree. Mix in tank.

Jim, A neighbor of mine had one of those Saabs back around 1962.
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seemed it had "freewheeling" or at least it sounded like that as the engine seemed to go to idle whenever the foot was lifted off the accelerator . I remember thinking it sounded like a popcorn popper. It was cheap transportation but, as I remember, quite well built for what it was.
Click to expand...
Yes the three that I had, all had freewheeling. This was to prevent "bucking" with two stroke engine, when coasting.
In the 60--they had pop out windshields and a somewhat built in roll bar. Mine also had lap seat belts.
None of mine ever got the gas mileage my VW beetles got. But they had a six foot coil wire ----LOL !
Click to expand...
 
(quoted from post at 03:33:32 01/24/16)
(quoted from post at 03:17:38 01/24/16)
(quoted from post at 00:13:02 01/24/16) I have owned 2 of them. Saab 93 (1960) was 3 cylinder 750cc single carb piston port Front wheel drive with 3 on the tree. Mix in tank.

Jim, A neighbor of mine had one of those Saabs back around 1962.
Correct me if I'm wrong but it seemed it had "freewheeling" or at least it sounded like that as the engine seemed to go to idle whenever the foot was lifted off the accelerator . I remember thinking it sounded like a popcorn popper. It was cheap transportation but, as I remember, quite well built for what it was.
Click to expand...

Yes the three that I had, all had freewheeling. This was to prevent "bucking" with two stroke engine, when coasting.
In the 60--they had pop out windshields and a somewhat built in roll bar. Mine also had lap seat belts.
None of mine ever got the gas mileage my VW beetles got. But they had a six foot coil wire ----LOL !
Click to expand...

I thought it had freewheeling but I never inquired about it.
I also thought "coasting" was illegal in NY State and I remember my Dad telling me he had a Chevy back in the early 30s that also had freewheeling and he was required to wire it in the out position. I imagine the Saab had very good brakes which I'm sure a 32 Chevy did not. LOL
Click to expand...
 
I have a 62 Rambler with the old free wheeling overdrive. Can't tell you how long they made this transmission after 1962.
 
It had an extra piston in the crankcase that pushed the mixture up to the other piston. You posted a good link bit it seems you did not read it.
 
A friend of the family has had a 67 Saab Sonet II with the three cylinder swo stroke for many years. Four on the column and had the freewheel handle. As a kid I never realized how rare the car was, being one of about 250 made before the switch to the Ford V-4. The guy raced it and also used it as a daily driver. Loved the sound of it. Always loved his cars, one of his other daily drivers is an E-type Jag with the straight six.
 
In 1970 I bought a new Kawasaki Mach I, 500cc triple. The bike had 60 HP and the oil went in a separate tank from the gasoline. A metering pump injected oil into the engine which was ultimately burned with the gasoline for piston/cylinder lube. The pump metered based on throttle opening, approximately 120:1 at idle and 20:1 at full throttle. One thing I found interesting was that oil consumption was approximately 1 qt/1500 miles. Conversely, the next bike I bought was a Kawasaki Z1, 4 cylinder four stroke - it required 4 qts of oil with change intervals of 2000 miles. It did not burn oil however the change intervals worked out to a comsumption rate of 2 qts/1000 miles.
 
(quoted from post at 05:14:48 01/24/16) I have a 62 Rambler with the old free wheeling overdrive. Can't tell you how long they made this transmission after 1962.
Click to expand...

When those old overdrive Transmissions were operating properly, they only freewheeled below approximately 27 MPH and momentarily when shifting into the overdrive mode.
 
(quoted from post at 17:25:45 01/24/16) In 1970 I bought a new Kawasaki Mach I, 500cc triple. The bike had 60 HP and the oil went in a separate tank from the gasoline.

Ken, that brings back some memories...I had a '71 Mach III. They were actually called Mach III for the 3 cylinders.They were, I think, the original "crotch rocket" and at 382 lbs. dry, they were the fastest stock 1/4 mile bike at the time. In '72 they came out with a 750 CC version, the Mach IV.
They smoked like the devil after they had been running for a time at low RPMs and then suddenly "wound up" to 10 grand or so. There was a particular brand of oil sold at the dealers at the time that smoked less than most. Spectrum, maybe?
It was a fun bike but real "squirrely" to ride.
Kinda collectible today.


http://www.cmsnl.com/img/community/vehicles/2/23/235/235501/201108102237190.h1f.JPG
Click to expand...
 
(quoted from post at 17:24:23 01/24/16) A friend of the family has had a 67 Saab Sonet II with the three cylinder swo stroke for many years. Four on the column and had the freewheel handle. As a kid I never realized how rare the car was, being one of about 250 made before the switch to the Ford V-4. The guy raced it and also used it as a daily driver. Loved the sound of it. Always loved his cars, one of his other daily drivers is an E-type Jag with the straight six.
Click to expand...

I believe they called the first Sonett a "montecarlo"
 
(quoted from post at 12:29:38 01/24/16)

I believe they called the first Sonett a "montecarlo"
Click to expand...

Pretty sure you are correct there.

I have also seen many a Saab 96 converted into a dog house/chicken coup.
 
Yes it had free wheeling and could be changed to direct. I never used the direct, as it made shifting without the clutch more difficult. I wish I still had it to show in car shows. (too smokey to use as a daily driver.) Jim
 
Dear Dr. The image of all the engines in the series near the very bottom of the whole article provides my rationale! Nunber 1 diagram shows a intake system clearly separated from the crankshaft/rods. I am also convinced the principle could be applied to a Detroit diesel engine decompressed to operate on gasoline with direct injection. Just very interesting to me, and as close as I could get with a modest search, to the answer being asked. Jim
 

Yes, you are correct the 500 was a Mach III. I used Klotz oil which greatly reduced the smoke. Many people thought more oil was better and turned up the pump, those would smoke!
 
(quoted from post at 10:09:18 01/24/16)
(quoted from post at 05:14:48 01/24/16) I have a 62 Rambler with the old free wheeling overdrive. Can't tell you how long they made this transmission after 1962.
Click to expand...

When those old overdrive Transmissions were operating properly, they only freewheeled below approximately 27 MPH and momentarily when shifting into the overdrive mode.
Click to expand...

Brian, come to think of it I think you are right. I haven't driven this Rambler for ten years or more but I kind of remember the tranny letting go below a certain speed during deceleration.
 
(quoted from post at 10:09:18 01/24/16)
(quoted from post at 05:14:48 01/24/16) I have a 62 Rambler with the old free wheeling overdrive. Can't tell you how long they made this transmission after 1962.
Click to expand...

When those old overdrive Transmissions were operating properly, they only freewheeled below approximately 27 MPH and momentarily when shifting into the overdrive mode.
Click to expand...

Brian, come to think of it I think you are right. I haven't driven this Rambler for ten years or more but I kind of remember the tranny letting go below a certain speed during deceleration.
 
In about 1990 I was talking to a lab worker at the University of Kentucky and somehow we got on the subject of foreign cars. I think she had come from former East Germany and she said they nicknamed the Trabi the " Butt " because the smoke reminded them of a cigar the way they smoked.

How do you double the value of a Trabi? ANS: Fill it with gas.

I think recently some were sold in Canada and one or two made it to the U.S., but they are not sold here because of emissions problems.
 
The cutaway does, the last diagram in the article shows a aeparate compressor and separate induction system with reed valves and no connection to the CC. Just interesting, Jim
 
(quoted from post at 22:23:47 01/23/16) My friend had one; 3 cylinder Saab . It gave new meaning to foreign made junk.
Click to expand...

Saab! Junk!!??
Tell me again how many American cars have won International rallies?
 
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