How to interpret hours

A post a few days ago asked how hard you work your tractors and push their limits. That got me to wondering about hour meters and just what that 'hours' reading on your meter really indicates. I'm pretty much in the dark about the whole thing (I admittedly know less than one tenth of a percent what most of you guys know about tractors), but I'm pretty sure it means more than just the number of hours the motor was running.

Case in point: I recently bought a '69 Ford 4000. The hour meter reads 3700 hours (assuming it is correct.) I really can't relate that to anything I'm familiar with. My car has 75,000 miles on it, so I can somewhat use that as a yardstick to make a guess as to how much life the car has left. Is there any way to relate my tractor's hours to automobile miles, or are there so many variable factors in that number that make it almost meaningless?

It is just the hours the hour meter thinks the tractor is running. I think most of them run when the switch is on whether the engine is running or not. Full time work, 40 hours per week, is 2080 hours per year. Lot's of equipment is not run anywhere close to 500 hours per year, but there are those that run over 1,000 hours per year, more in industrial equipment like forklifts.

The mechanical hour meters have hours based on full RPM, the electric are actual hours.

(quoted from post at 17:52:52 01/08/16) A post a few days ago asked how hard you work your tractors and push their limits. That got me to wondering about hour meters and just what that 'hours' reading on your meter really indicates. I'm pretty much in the dark about the whole thing (I admittedly know less than one tenth of a percent what most of you guys know about tractors), but I'm pretty sure it means more than just the number of hours the motor was running.

Case in point: I recently bought a '69 Ford 4000. The hour meter reads 3700 hours (assuming it is correct.) I really can't relate that to anything I'm familiar with. My car has 75,000 miles on it, so I can somewhat use that as a yardstick to make a guess as to how much life the car has left. Is there any way to relate my tractor's hours to automobile miles, or are there so many variable factors in that number that make it almost meaningless?

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ust as one cannot say a tractor is a tractor or a soda pop is a soda pop, an hour meter is not an hour meter in all cases. Those called Proof Meters on early Ford tractors are more like your old car odometers, except connected to engine instead of wheels/axle/transmission. What those actually do is count engine revolutions, not hours. True, at some specific engine rpm, they will register hours of run time.

(quoted from post at 17:52:52 01/08/16) A post a few days ago asked how hard you work your tractors and push their limits. That got me to wondering about hour meters and just what that 'hours' reading on your meter really indicates. I'm pretty much in the dark about the whole thing (I admittedly know less than one tenth of a percent what most of you guys know about tractors), but I'm pretty sure it means more than just the number of hours the motor was running.

Case in point: I recently bought a '69 Ford 4000. The hour meter reads 3700 hours (assuming it is correct.) I really can't relate that to anything I'm familiar with. My car has 75,000 miles on it, so I can somewhat use that as a yardstick to make a guess as to how much life the car has left. Is there any way to relate my tractor's hours to automobile miles, or are there so many variable factors in that number that make it almost meaningless?

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It depends. In the case of your Ford 4000 they measured of 1 hour at the engine speed where the PTO is running at 540. I can't remember but I think that it's 2200 RPM. I hope someone can do a better job of explaining. Most new tractors, and maybe some of the older tractors, measured clock hours. In other words, it measures hour for hour when the engine is running. Some add hours if the key is on even if the engine isn't running.

Older tractors for sure, it would be the hours the engine is running at pto or full rated speed. So If you idled your tractor a lot running a grain auger or so, it would not show as many hours as it actually has been running. Some of the newer tractors might be electric, and actually count hours, not engine revolutions?

Back in the 70s and 80s it was a milestone for a car to go 100,000 miles, and it was kinda the same for a tractor to get to 6-7,000 hours.

In today's world it seems a lot of cars can get to 200,000. And perhaps I hear a lot more diesel tractors getting to 10,000 hours.

Now mind you I hear tractors blowing at 3500 hours, and some haven't been opened up and going strong at 12000+ hours.

Just like cars, have to look at the average, some don't last the warrenty and some just won't die!

A tractor with 1500 hours is just nicely broken in, 3500 it is used, 5000 and well it probably is looking at closer to a major overhaul than not but it should go a while yet. At 9000 hours well it had been a dependable runner keep adding oil and see what you can get out of it yet.

Now I have been careful not to mention any brands, because then the color war will blow up and we won't get any discussion at all that's helpful!

Paul

My Jubilee, 540 pto is at 1500 or 1550 rpm.

(quoted from post at 14:52:52 01/08/16) A post a few days ago asked how hard you work your tractors and push their limits. That got me to wondering about hour meters and just what that 'hours' reading on your meter really indicates. I'm pretty much in the dark about the whole thing (I admittedly know less than one tenth of a percent what most of you guys know about tractors), but I'm pretty sure it means more than just the number of hours the motor was running.

Case in point: I recently bought a '69 Ford 4000. The hour meter reads 3700 hours (assuming it is correct.) I really can't relate that to anything I'm familiar with. My car has 75,000 miles on it, so I can somewhat use that as a yardstick to make a guess as to how much life the car has left. Is there any way to relate my tractor's hours to automobile miles, or are there so many variable factors in that number that make it almost meaningless?

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Not really a way to compare a tractor hours to vehicle engine hours. Hope this helps. My truck has 108K miles and the hours meter shows about 2,200 hours.

Now that being said truck as combined city, highway, off road, trailer pulling and hauling. All at different speeds just like you would use a tractor. Gas is a gas engine 8.1L Chevy.

Hope this helps

Thanks, guys; your input gives me some real perspective.

On some hour meters it says at pto speed.

Well, let's consider an automobile engine in a piece of farm equipment. For example, a K Gleaner combine had a 250 cubic inch Chev 6 engine. That engine, per the owner's manual, required an oil change every 100 hours. That same engine in a car operating under severe conditions as outlined in the owner's manual, would require an oil change every 2500 miles.In the combine, that engine would run at 2400 rpm probably 90 percent of its operating life, producing its rated 75 hp at that rpm. In a car, that engine would turn around the same rpm at 60 mph. It was rated at 145 hp (1970 vintage) at 4800 rpm which it would very seldom see. Operating at a continuous speed in the combine would extend the life of an engine. Cold starts, varying rpm's,different weather conditions seen in a car would detract from the engine's lifespan. At 100,000 miles the car engine would be due for an overhaul. We had a K that ran about 200 hours per year for 35 years, yet the engine showed no sign of oil consumption or blowby. A tractor on the other hand, would be operating at full power for more of the time than would a combine. It would be hard to fairly compare a gas tractor engine to a car engine since the tractor engine is much more heavily built. A diesel engine would usually outlast its gas counterpart in the same model of machine, but cost considerably more when new. Since tractor's operating historys' would be much more variable than an automobiles', comparisons can only be general in nature.

Ben

For ag equipment I remember hearing the figure 300 hours was a good deal of field use. I usually put around 125 hours on some tractors each year. That's the 4440, 8430, and 886(IH). These would be the ones you would see parked more in the winter. The 4020 is more like 150 and the 7800 is more like 150. They do more chores. I am starting to use the 4020 less and have replaced lots of its jobs with the 886 IH. It isn't handy to do things like dig post holes with a cab so the 4020 gets its exercise for things like that. The 7800 is digital but all others are cable driven so I assume they register PTO hours.

All of the tractors get an oil change once a year. The 4020 has 24,000 hours on one rebuild. It only uses oil when it is time for service. Literally it seems to know the date. The 4440 has 9500 hours on the original engine turned up to about 150 hp and uses no oil. The 8430 has 11,000 hours and about 2,000 on a rebuild and uses no oil. The 7800 has just under 8,000 hours with no rebuild and no fluid usage. The 886 has 3100 pampered hours so it uses no fluids.

My benchmark is higher than others. I don't expect any of my diesels to show age until 10,000 hours at the earliest. I don't see my 4440 showing any wear so I could easily see it going 14,000 hours on the original engine.

Before the age of electronics, some tractors had hour meters that recorded actual hours that they were running, and others had engine-driven hourmeters that that racked up hours based on engine speed and time.

I dunno what shystem your tractor has.

As a simple example, let's say a tractor has idled at 1200 RPM's for an hour, and it's rated speed is 2400 RPM's.

An electrical "time based" hourmeter will rack up one hour.

An engine-driven hourmeter in the same example would rack up 1/2 hour because the engine ran at 1/2 rated speed.

You really have to push 'em to get 200 hours a year............unless your timer is electronic.

Then they will rack up hours just by your giving them a glance. :>)

Allan

Realistic definition of Hour meter

That gizmo on or near the dash that due to some unknown force of nature sits there in a non-functional state doing nothing for years, also known as the first thing people fix or replace before trying to sell a machine.
If I had to guess I would doubt that 20% of older machines show an accurate reading.

I got two. new tractors in 2014. One in June , one in December . The June purchased tractor read 480 hours at Jan. first. The December tractor turned 417 hours. The two tractors that these tractors replaced clocked 400 hours on a acreage each year, and both had over 8000 hours. I find it hard to believe any one who farms would buy a new tractor at the price they cost , and not put 300-500 hours on the tractor each year. So the chance of finding a Ford 4000 with just over 3500 hours, would be unrealistic. Just 200 hours per year for fourth years would be 8000 hours.

Yours are busy farm tractors, Bruce. I have an 8n that probably hasn't had 1500 hours added during the past 45 years that my dad, and then me, have owned it. I have a JD 1020 since 2001 that I probably haven't added 600 hours to. I don't know what kind of work the Ford 4000 did during its first 30 years, but its second owner (who I bought it from) got it in 2002 and since then has used it only to mow on his 20 acres. It's still clean and tight, very few war wounds, which makes me believe the meter may be close to correct..

(quoted from post at 18:12:54 01/09/16) I got two. new tractors in 2014. One in June , one in December . The June purchased tractor read 480 hours at Jan. first. The December tractor turned 417 hours. The two tractors that these tractors replaced clocked 400 hours on a acreage each year, and both had over 8000 hours. I find it hard to believe any one who farms would buy a new tractor at the price they cost , and not put 300-500 hours on the tractor each year. So the chance of finding a Ford 4000 with just over 3500 hours, would be unrealistic. Just 200 hours per year for fourth years would be 8000 hours.

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I agree, around here a tractor that is 5 years old can easily have 6-7000 hours on the clock. Of course some of these guys run them 24 hours a day during planting season. I'm a part time semi retired guy and I put over 600 hours divided by 4. My 4630 Ford is a 92 model and has 48xx hours. I've had my backhoe 4 years and have put over 1500 hours on it.

(quoted from post at 17:12:54 01/09/16) I got two. new tractors in 2014. One in June , one in December . The June purchased tractor read 480 hours at Jan. first. The December tractor turned 417 hours. The two tractors that these tractors replaced clocked 400 hours on a acreage each year, and both had over 8000 hours. I find it hard to believe any one who farms would buy a new tractor at the price they cost , and not put 300-500 hours on the tractor each year. So the chance of finding a Ford 4000 with just over 3500 hours, would be unrealistic. Just 200 hours per year for fourth years would be 8000 hours.

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Sounds like you log an awful lot of seat time.
Thinking of what I put on mine;
-Feeding tractor 100 hrs for the winter and maybe another 20 hrs pounding posts and raking.
-Loader maybe 50 hr total between corral cleaning and dirt work.
-Bailing tractor 800 bales per year + loading 50 hr max add another 10 hrs harrowing each spring
Blade tractor 5-10 hrs per winter for snow removal
Thats 240 hr year seat time
Realistically 10 - 120 hrs a year is all mine put on.
Mowing tractors figure 5 hrs to mow the yard maybe 5 times a year divided by two machines is only 12-13 hr per year.
Guess it all depends what you use them for and how many of them you have.

The 8 speed 4000's achieve PTO speed at 1800 rpm. Regardless, that generation of tractor has a proof meter that records one hour at 1800 rpm.

Rod

In that generation the instrument cluster on that tractor recorded one hour as one hour at 1800 rpm. In later generations that changed somewhat...
In any case, the design life expectancy of the tractor is 10,000 hours. Some will do more. Some will do less. Abuse and neglect will alter the expectation... but generally a Ford 4000 or 5000 will achieve 10k hours without much difficulty.

Rod

(quoted from post at 16:40:13 01/09/16) Realistic definition of Hour meter

That gizmo on or near the dash that due to some unknown force of nature sits there in a non-functional state doing nothing for years, also known as the first thing people fix or replace before trying to sell a machine.
If I had to guess I would doubt that 20% of older machines show an accurate reading.

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I put a Ford tractor engine in a Mercury car in the early 1970's. I run the hours back to zero on the proof meter and after 200,000 miles the recorded hours was 4,000 give or take a little.
If you run 2,000 hours at 50 mph average you travel 100,000 miles. (2,000 x 50 = 100,000).