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chain saw sharpeners

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longmeadowfarm

Member
I was looking at a flyer from Harbor Freight. Seems that they will sell me a chain saw chain sharpener for 29 bucks plus change. I get my chains sharpened buy an "expert" ..doesn't take more off than necessary.. for 3 bucks .. as I have never sharpened my chains myself except for an occasional file attempt.. can I do a credible job with a 59.95 discounted to 29.95 sharpener? Thanks
 
If you can get a good job done for $3 I would stick with that! But it also depends how much free time you have, I am retired and have a $29 HF grinder that works for me.
 
I do mine by hand with a file. A routine sharpening takes 5 minutes or so on a 20" bar. If I have hit something and have to take more off it might take 10 minutes. It is a little bit of a knack but not at all hard to pick up.
Zach
 
I can't get a good job with sharpener. I have better results without sharpener. I have several places that said they sharpened for me and they did cut good at all and I had to hand sharpen them.
 
I've had one of those since back when they were $25. I like it a lot for my 3 saws. Does a great job if you remember to also re-cut the chain depth gauges to the correct depth.
 
I purchased a HF sharpner. It wouldn't work on my small chain off 16 inch saw, wheel was too wide. I wasn't impressed with how it was made.

Neighbor gave me a 40 year old belsaw sharpner. I'm very impressed with how will it's made.
 
(quoted from post at 23:08:14 01/05/16) I was looking at a flyer from Harbor Freight. Seems that they will sell me a chain saw chain sharpener for 29 bucks plus change. I get my chains sharpened buy an "expert" ..doesn't take more off than necessary.. for 3 bucks .. as I have never sharpened my chains myself except for an occasional file attempt.. can I do a credible job with a 59.95 discounted to 29.95 sharpener? Thanks
Click to expand...

If I way only sharpening a chain occasionally, I would stay with file and spend the money on a couple of new spare chains.
Myself, I work on many chainsaws and find that I use my Oregon 511A often enough to justify the cost.
I bought used on eBay for less then 100 bucks.
After using my Oregon, I realized just how wrong a hand sharpened chain can get to be. Very good for returning old chain to good condition.
I am a retired Tool&Die Maker and I personally cannot hand sharpen a chain to cut like new, As a matter of fact--I can't electrically sharpen a chain that will cut like new.
Some people claim they can, but I can't. LOL
 
if you getting it done for 3 dollars and you satisfied. why bother with purchase. i have a high priced unit for sale if anyone interested. this shop is quiting messing with chainsaw, pretty much waste time messing with alot come in can by new cheaper most time.
 
(quoted from post at 23:46:43 01/05/16) if you getting it done for 3 dollars and you satisfied. why bother with purchase. i have a high priced unit for sale if anyone interested. this shop is quiting messing with chainsaw, pretty much waste time messing with alot come in can by new cheaper most time.
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I did that several years ago. I now only work with higher quality saws like Stihl, Husky, Makita/Dolmar, Echo.
Even have to careful with Husqvarna and their rebadged Homelites! Not worth repairing!
 
Longmeadowfarm,I would much rather use a good file to sharpen a chain.A electric sharpener just ruins a chain if they get the teeth to hot,and takes the temper out.Plus they are not as sharp as a file sharpened chain or won't stay sharp as long as a file sharpened chain.Also a file sharpened chain will last longer,and you can have your chains sharpened 10 times for that $30.00.
 
(quoted from post at 23:46:43 01/05/16) if you getting it done for 3 dollars and you satisfied. why bother with purchase. i have a high priced unit for sale if anyone interested. this shop is quiting messing with chainsaw, pretty much waste time messing with alot come in can by new cheaper most time.
Click to expand...

[b:27dbaebfec]"if you getting it done for 3 dollars and you satisfied. why bother with purchase."[/b:27dbaebfec]

Only problem with paying to have sharpened is that about two sharpenings are all you can usually get. They cut too much off to be sure they don't have to grind again.
 
(quoted from post at 16:08:14 01/05/16) I was looking at a flyer from Harbor Freight. Seems that they will sell me a chain saw chain sharpener for 29 bucks plus change. I get my chains sharpened buy an "expert" ..doesn't take more off than necessary.. for 3 bucks .. as I have never sharpened my chains myself except for an occasional file attempt.. can I do a credible job with a 59.95 discounted to 29.95 sharpener? Thanks
Click to expand...

Make up your mind that you are going to learn how to hand-sharpen with a file. Once you learn how you'll never use any other method. Hit a rock out in the woods? Get out your file and in 10 minutes you're back in business :D
 

The best way I found to get a chain sharp with a file is to take the chain off and clamp it carefully in a vise so it will stay still and I can apply serious pressure to it with the file. While the chain is clamped lay a flat file across the teeth and file the drag teeth off according to instructions, 1/32 inch below the level of the cutting teeth AIRC. I like the chain with the lines cut on the top of the cutters at the right angle for cutting. This angle does make a difference in how the chain cuts. Filing off the drag teeth is importance because if they are too high the cutters can't dig in enough to cut decent sawdust.

That process takes too much time for me so I use a Dremel type tool and a grinding stone of the proper size. It will still sharpen with a little practice after the stone gets worn too small. It's probably a little better to grind all the teeth that cut one way, then set up and grind the others. I touch the drag teeth each time I sharpen, works for me. Yes, the saw will cut well after sharpening like I have described. I'm not going to say it will cut as well as a new chain but it gets the job done.

Professional loggers have a file in their pocket and touch up the chain occasionally during the day.

KEH
 
I've had best rest results sharpening by hand, but been tempted to try one of these from Northern Tool:

31593.jpg
 
I have had good luck clamping my bar in a vice, set the chain brake so the chain doesn't move. Then using a good sharp file. I seam to get it fairly good, as it cuts good until the next rock, or whatever I hit. Stan
 
Put the bar in a vise, use the right sized file, follow the original angle, keep the file steady with good cutting pressure, and most teeth are sharp in two or three strokes. The very corner of the cutting tooth is the most important part. And above all, be sure to WEAR LEATHER GLOVES when filing by hand. That is the one job I never attempt without gloves!
 
ive used one like married2 allis shows down below for 20 years and i use my saws year around, you wont get as good a job with any other method, and ive tried them all including the [pros] this tool lets you set all the angles, and if used correctly will provide a razor sharp correct sharpining job and with a little finessing will allow you top file the raker teeth too
 
Nothing beats a file by hand..just don't take alot off and every 4 or 5 times you sharpen it file the drags down.
 
I used to work at a place that had a high dollar Oregon electric sharpener. I could do a better job, quicker with a file and the chains lasted longer. I left them on the saw, tightened the chain and used the chain brake. It kept the chain plenty tight enough.
 
i bought one from harbor freight 15 years ago for $80.00 and i still use it today and am using the same grinding wheel it came with best $best 80.00 bucks i probably ever spent.once you get used to using it you can take just a dab off the chain to resharpen it.i know i have used it over 100 times and i dont have to drive to town to get my chains sharpened i have a spot set up in my shop for it on a small desk.
 
The only method I know, was taught to me by an old logger. Yes, follow carefully the angle of the tooth. Take 3 'swipes' on each tooth - the point being equal number of 'swipes' per side. If 1 or more teeth are still not sharp, do it again with 2 'swipes'. My saw (don't use it much anymore) is always sharp and cuts like a ...submit your own description.
 
I have two of that design made by Oregon. Bought one around 86 and found another at flea market for $8. Ones set up for left the other for
right. Tried the electric with grinding wheel. Did Ok and still use it if I wreck a chain to reshape. But those hand file guides are what I
use for regular sharpening. Been told by folks I sharpen for that it's better than new out of the box and last longer. I use pferd chainsaw
files. They can make a big difference too.

I've also gone to skiptooth chain and the electric sharpener just doesn't work well with that.
 
Gave away my new HF chain sharpener....can't match a hand file job. I can hand file faster than using the HF piece of junk which is made with inferior materials. I wish I could find one from back in the 60-70s when they were made to work and last. I carry spare chains and files for my different size chain saws in my side-by-side and touch the chains up when they get dull or hit a rock or nail in the tree trunk.
 
Nothing like new chain ! I have a 511A also . I love it . Just need to take your time on set up . No burning teeth or excessive removal . You are right about how far out chains can get after filing. For my use I usually touch up with file every time I fuel saw. About 4th time I slap spare chain on .
 
I used to use a file never took it in tho have it done on a grinder. I now use a cordless dremel tool works quicker than a file and just as sharp. It has been 5 years since I bought a new chain, cut about 4 cord a year.
 
I had one, gave it away . 3 bucks your are getting good deal . We charge 7-10 bucks. We don't do that many of them though . I have a buddy works at a shop . He spends 1-2 hours every morning doing nothing but saw sharpening . Nother shop across town has a "Frazen" ? automatic sharpener . set it up , walk away . Oh it was only 30 grand, lol
 
I agree with the "hand file" people but one must also remember that files don't last forever either, especially with the hi-performance chizel chains or any with extra hard teeth. One can file all day with an old file and not get results. I would say for every two chains, new file.
 
I have a Nielsen sharpener, similar to HF's, that I bought around 1970 when I was a McCulloch dealer. Still works good as new, but I have problems getting proper wheels for it. Seems the only wheels you can get nowadays are 1/8" and they're too thin for all but the smallest chains. Most popular chains take a 5/32" wheel, and larger ones take a 3/16".

I don't blame people for saying they can't do a good job of sharpening with an HF sharpener. It's more than likely the wheel, not the sharpener itself. BTW, I've played with HF's sharpeners in the store and I like my Nielsen much better.
 
Bought one of those from HF, but never could get it to sharpen both sides evenly, and seems hard on chains, and quit using it. Also tried having someone else grind, and while they seemed ok, rarely could I get more than 3 sharpenings before it needed replaced. I ended up getting a good guide from a Stihl dealer (do not think it is actually a stihl product though). The key is like others stated, keep amount of strokes same on all teeth, angle correct and I also bought a tool to check depth of drags and knock some off once in a while. I have not replaced a chain in a couple years now with that technique, and normally it cuts good. I only hit each tooth with 4 or 5 strokes every couple times I cut wood. I also have better luck using the "rapid super" type Stihl chains. So I agree with most that a good hand filing is about the best, and my experience, is just as fast, saves chains, and cuts better overall.
 
I have an HF sharpener, and it has always done a good job. With the cutting that I do, there is a good possibility of hitting something like embedded barbed wire that seriously dulls the chain. I find that it is more efficient for me to keep several sharp chains on hand when cutting, and if I hit metal, just replace it. If a guy is reasonably patient with the sharpener, you will not take overheat the teeth when cutting. I keep a grinding wheel dresser handy, and when the end of the wheel gets too rounded, it helps to square it with the dresser. Poor grinding wheel maintenance will lead to poor results with any sharpener. I have done the kind of cutting years ago where I could cut all day with the same chain, just filing it at lunchtime. One of the advantages that I believe I get from using a sharpener is that my cuts don't lead either direction. I know that some guys could file a chain five times and never have that problem, but I am not one of them.
 
This is the chain grinder I use, except mine has a hyd tightener. I'm no good with a file and my dealer takes too much off. So I god mad and bought my own grinder. Used to be able to buy leftover bulk chain on ebay and started making my own chains. I now have a dozen chains and just change them out as needed and sharpen in the basement in comfort.
701416_400x400.jpg

Sharpener
 
I file. Get the proper file for the chains you are doing, and keep depth and angle consistent. Run a full chisel chain, the others never cut as good, and are more difficult to sharpen. File cleaners as necessary, but usually 2-3 times throughout life of chain. LO kick chains and safety chains never cut well, not made to.
As for power sharpeners, the heat they generate is too much, seems to ruin longevity of chains. File is free of heat. I sharpen on saw, just grab with gloved hand, hold and file. If I file as soon as it is cutting slow, 5 strokes usually. If I wait till I have to push, 10-12 strokes. I run full chisel non safety chains. They grab well. 3/8 0.050 chain. As for time, the big saw (93 DL 28" bar) takes me 15-20 minutes of uninterrupted filing without touching cleaners. I used to work for a guy he thought we were wasting time sharpening everyday, he said "go get 2 chains for today, 2 chains tomorrow for each saw and drop the day old chains off everynight and pickup 2 sharp chains, and that should last you, also grab one spare incase you hit rocks or break one." We went overbudget in about a month on saw sharpening none-the-less the chains would last 3 trips to the store for sharpening and a new one was in order, the true value hardware bill went nuts. We could get multiple weeks out of a single chain when we all filed, and production wasn't much different.
 
My saws have relatively short bars and I had rather file a chain than to take a chain off the saw. I am not an expert filer, I can just make them cut
 
I've had blades sharpened by quite a few different people and they never seem to cut as well as a new blade. I started sharpening them myself with a carborundum blade on a grinder and they cut just as good or better than a new blade.
 
I have the Oregon 510 and I love it. After 30 years using a hand file I get much better results from the electric particularly with the newer smaller chains. I would hesitate to get the HF one because I don't think it has very good adjustments. And that is the whole ball game. The problems I've been reading about in this thread comes down to the operator not the machine. You have to learn about chains and how to adjust for the individual grind. There is no one size fits all! Different chains and manufacturers use different angles and you have adjust accordingly. It's not rocket science, but it does take some learning. As for the electric wearing out a chain faster, maybe slightly faster, but anything excessive is operator error. Somebody is too heavy handed or doesn't take the time to lighten the cut. I see some clones of my machine available for $150 or less from places like Grizzly and Northern. That's what I would go for, but only if you take the time to learn how to use it right.
 
I always had a shopsharpen that also sold chains, it was in their best interest to bill out the sharpening and also sell more chain. That is good business, plain and simple. I am pretty convinced that an entity that didn't sell chain would be a better choice for sharpening.
 
Goose

Seems no problem getting wheels for different chains here in Oz. Have a look at this site which we use. They list Tecomec and Carlton wheels but only for .325 and up.

http://tctsawchain.com.au/chainsaw-sharpening-files/

I've got an Ozito grinder (China) and it uses similar wheels. Came with a spare but it will be a long time before I need it. It doesn't have adjustable tooth face angle, just 35 - 0 - 35.

We've been in a hell of a drought for about the last 3 years and our supplement for livestock is fodder trees, mainly mulga (an acacia). A hard, dirty wood. We use chainsaws (.325 chain) and chain of choice is Oregon Microchisel. Surfice to say that in that time I've used about one and a half 25 foot rolls of bulk chain, involving many sharpenings.

I haven't used a file since I got the grinder. Yes, you could burn them and, yes, you would be taking too much off and, yes, you should be setting so it takes less - it will really tell you that you are forcing it. I adjust till the chain just touches the wheel, then a tad more and check that the full face has been ground. The top of the tooth MAY look burnt but that is heat effect on the sap on the tooth - this depends on what you are cutting. No trouble with getting an even grind and a straight cut. And there is less setting if you have more than one chain and rotate them and then sharpen.

And, with patience you can do the depth gauges - set it on 0 degrees and work from there.

Another tip I got is to periodically reverse the wheel to help keep the face angle.

I wouldn't be without one - obviously YMMV.
 
I built my sharpener copying the geometry of a Belsaw sharpener. I use worn out surface grinder wheels from work, #46 open grit wheels. They don't burn or overheat the chain. Maybe most of the overheating issues are caused by the wrong grade wheel? The HF grinders I have seen lack the rigidity of the professional grade machines, which makes them sensitive to operator technique. You can still o a good job, but it takes more skill. The only time I ever remove more than about .004" from a chain is if it has hit a rock or some iron. Then you have to take enough metal off each tooth to return to the original contour to make it cut right, an most likely will need to file the rakers too. I can usually use a chain down to when the teeth are less than 1/4" long, so I have no idea how many times I sharpen them before I throw them away, but it's a lot. And I use a caliper to be sure teeth on both sides of the chain are the same length. Keep an eye on the chips when sawing, if you see any sawdust, change or sharpen the chain. I'm not a hero at this, but I've been doing it this way for over 40 years and it has worked well for me.
 
Before grinding any chain, I CLEAR with strong soap. blow or air dry and wire brush the area the wheel will touch.
Many burned chain links are caused by dirty gummed up wheels from grinding dirty. A dirty wheel is not sharp!
After I grind one side, I back off the adjuster and start on the other side, checking cutter length with dial calipers and try for no more then .005 difference between left and right cutters.
 
Bought one of those about a year ago. For a low dollar unit I have been impressed. Have to remember that you have to adjust it for the chain your sharpening. I do not take off more than a few thousands when sharpening. Chain don't get hot and will last thru many sharpenings. Hard to hand file and get teeth perfect the same. Our saws no longer try to cut in circles.
 
You're right knowing how to use the grinders is the key most of the time just a touch of the wheel
on the cutter will sharpen it just fine unless its hit metal or a rock.
 
(quoted from post at 21:47:11 01/05/16) I agree with the "hand file" people but one must also remember that files don't last forever either, especially with the hi-performance chizel chains or any with extra hard teeth.[b:b2c8ba1f1d] One can file all day with an old file and not get results. [/b:b2c8ba1f1d]I would say for every two chains, new file.
Click to expand...
Yup, agree on the file comment. Chain Saw files are always on my b'day and Christmas list. Kids say "I already got you them last year". They don't understand that they lose their cutting ability. I've got 3 chains for my Stihl MS361, get them sharpened professionally in the winter ($7 apiece), touch them up after every other fueling. I'm going to get a couple more as I expect to do more cutting in the next couple of years.
 
I will echo the opinion that the HF sharpener does a decent job if set up carefully and you are careful with how much you take off the chain and don't overheat with the wheel.
For the cost, can't be beat.

Another option, which I have used and have come to like, is the Timberline sharpener.

http://www.timberlinesharpener.com
 
I use an air die grinder with a carbide bit. When I was burning wood, I would touch up the chain every hour or so of cutting. Use to run chains until there was nothing left to sharpen. Can do an 18" chain in about 5 minutes if it isn't terrible. I found most people who pay to have their chains sharpened, run them way to long before sharpening.
 
I bought a sharpener for $89 from Northern Tool. It does a great job! First thing I do when I get a chain is use the angle grinder and take the rakers off and grind the teeth so they are red hot to harden them. Then all you have to do is hold the saw back. Very little effort in cutting wood. If it starts cutting like a new chain should it's time to re sharpen! I wouldn't be without a sharpener anymore!
 
I look at it 2 ways, send them to local shop's grinder when the the cutters need more than you can do with a bar clamp file guide, and or touch up in between with the file and guide. There are tools you can use in the field to quickly dress up a chain to get through, but I like a little more accuracy and most times I can afford myself just that.

I've always been able to do an accurate job on the touch up, set the guide carefully, count the strokes, note any cutters with particular problems, look over my chain etc. At some point you have to take the depth gauges down proportionally to the top of the cutter and for me that has always been a problem, so lately I just run a bunch of chains, start from new, touch up, gets rocked it goes to the shop, then hung up for future reference. I'll repeat with new until I have enough chains in use for my needs. I work with the one chain until it needs to go to the shop, and I can get several touch ups before that, all depends on cutting conditions, or if you hit some wire or metal etc.

I can sharpen the cutters to be like a new chain with my file guide, but I was never all that successful with the depth gauges, lucky a few times getting them just right and the chain I use, Stihl RS, will pull very nicely into the hardwood I am cutting. I have taken them down too far, mis matched, missed one, and on those it does not take much to get some chatter from taking them down too much, or just dust/fines from not enough.

On that note, the grinder, like the file guide needs to be accurate enough with firm adjustments, (not built in a flimsy manner) and depending on the wheels used, etc, you must be careful to not overheat the cutter as you sharpen it. There are some reasonably priced grinders out there, Oregon, Northern tool(knock-off's) etc. I opted for an old HOS Stihl, not modern by any means, but its well built and holds the adjustment, and can do depth gauges by changing the wheel. I have not mastered this yet, nor have I spent much time on it so far, so I still use the local shop. They know how to to sharpen chains and perform repairs on about any saw you bring to them, its been in business since '49 or so and was founded by my neighbors father. I thought he may have had a Silvey or commercial grade high production grinder, he does not and they do a lot of chains and have a reputation for good work that I have heard about 40 miles away. He uses an Oregon grinder, not sure of the model, might be a higher end one.

Another thing is to use lots of care around your work, I brush away dirt around the base of the cut, logs I need to block up, and avoid getting too close to the ground, it all adds up to a dull chain if you do not. Either hand filed or periodic sharpening on the grinder seems to work well for a moderate amount of seasonal cutting/clean up/land maintenance I do.
 
I take the rakers off of some of my chains but only on the saws that have guts (HP) to handle it. Not all saw can handle filing them off.
 
(quoted from post at 17:41:40 01/06/16) I take the rakers off of some of my chains but only on the saws that have guts (HP) to handle it. Not all saw can handle filing them off.
Click to expand...

Out of curiosity---what saw do you run with rakerless chains?
 
me too id like to watch that chain and see how it does, those rakers are there for a reason, they make the vertical cut on the side of the cut area then the teeth remove the cut piece, some chains are more aggressive than others, the consumer safety chain is designed for beginners to the saws,or somebody who just doesnt run a saw very often , and they will cut,but there slow, mainly designed to help avoid the dangerous and possibly deadly kickback, if your just pruning the trees in the yard in town they will probably serve just fine, if you heat with wood and have to cut a lot of it, and the place that sells chain knows you can handle a saw, you can buy the skip tooth chisel chain, a very aggressive chain with only half of the teeth of a normal consumer chain and no safety teeth, which cuts fast, it takes a good power head to pull it and if your not careful with what your doing it will kick back and hard, but it makes short work of lots of cutting if its properly sharpened, i have that on 2 of my big stihl saws, and will put it on my 3rd backup saw as soon as i wear out the regular chain thats on it, that one doesnt get much use anyway
 
(quoted from post at 18:41:05 01/06/16) me too id like to watch that chain and see how it does, those rakers are there for a reason, they make the vertical cut on the side of the cut area then the teeth remove the cut piece, some chains are more aggressive than others, the consumer safety chain is designed for beginners to the saws,or somebody who just doesnt run a saw very often , and they will cut,but there slow, mainly designed to help avoid the dangerous and possibly deadly kickback, if your just pruning the trees in the yard in town they will probably serve just fine, if you heat with wood and have to cut a lot of it, and the place that sells chain knows you can handle a saw, you can buy the skip tooth chisel chain, a very aggressive chain with only half of the teeth of a normal consumer chain and no safety teeth, which cuts fast, it takes a good power head to pull it and if your not careful with what your doing it will kick back and hard, but it makes short work of lots of cutting if its properly sharpened, i have that on 2 of my big stihl saws, and will put it on my 3rd backup saw as soon as i wear out the regular chain thats on it, that one doesnt get much use anyway
Click to expand...

Rakers on a chainsaw chain "limit" the depth of the cut. Similar to adjusting the blade depth on a hand plane. Too much bite and it grabs.
Generally, the depth of cut is close to .020/.030 and I have removed enough of the rakers to allow it to cut about 1/8". This was on an 80cc saw and I could not control all the grabbing and jerking!
I have several logger friends that have a certain formula for "partial" rake removal but I just leave that to them.
 
Any concern with the chain breaking with all the power to it and it chattering? That was my concern last time I lowered them too much, one try with it and it was taken off and hung up for the shop. Sad thing was I hand filed the cutters better than new, exactly how I like them, all even etc. I was not going to take a chance of wearing that chain, just seemed to rough to use like that. Saw shop guy took one look and said that's definitely not whatever thousandths the dimension should be between the 2 ! LOL I explained what happened.
 
I have a husqvarna 372xp. It took a while to get
used too and get the "feel" of it. If you let it take a
full bite it doesn't have enough power. I cut wood for
4 outdoor boilers so I have tried a lot of different
things and this is what seems to work the best for
me. Next saw will be the 94cc.
 
I am involved with logging and almost never use a grinder. I learned (took years) to file and set up various chains for production work. There is file and raker gauges and it will vary with different types of wood.
 
Hello longmeadowfarm,

There is a sharpener you need to check out.
It it all done by hand and it looks like it will do a good job. Search for timberline chainsaw sharpener,

Guido.
 
Hand file free hand til the chain is gone. Back in the 60's with the dutch elm disease, I worked in a saw shop and hand filed 20 to 30 chains every night. From the 2 man chains to the xl12's. Used only Starrett files. Cutting firewood now and will usually touch them up every couple tanks of fuel unless I get them in the dirt. If I am cutting wood my chain is sharp.
 
(quoted from post at 16:35:50 01/05/16) I've had best rest results sharpening by hand, but been tempted to try one of these from Northern Tool:

31593.jpg
Click to expand...

I have one of those.Works extremely well and well worth the money.It's the best way to sharpen a chain in my book!
 

I have one of the oregon units also.Never could get a decent job out of it.Best I can figure is that the angle scale is off from the left side to the right side.After 2 to or 3 sharpenings the saw would cut around the corner!I hung on to it for a backup but haven't used it since I bought the granfours.
 
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