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Bleeding Brakes

guido

guido

Well-known Member
Hello,

It may help to further elaborate on bleeding brakes. The method that is used is not as important as it is to remove all the air I the system. I think we can all agree on that one. Air trapped in the system will make the pedal soft and result in poor brake performance. I like to know what kind of method you guys use to bleed the air out of a brake system,

Guido.
 
When posable i like to gravity bleed . Starting with the right rear then left rear right ft. then left ft. Then if that fails to give the results needed then POWER BLEED .
 
I hate hydraulic brakes. I don't, and won't have any vehicle here bigger than my pickup with them. Had no trouble bleeding the pickup myself this past summer after replacing all rear brake parts. But when my "big" truck had hyd. brakes, I had to borrow a power bleeder. I wish all my vehicles had air brakes.
 
well mr. brake technician,you run me down , now you are asking how we bleed brakes. well i use gravity system or helper in vehicle doing the down pedal position , open bleeder, let air out then close ,up pedal, then repeat procedure.no pumping required. but you must be just an old pedal pumper from way back with out your residual valve in the lower mounted master cyl's.
 
Hello Ozlander,

Yep that is one way for sure. Many ways to skin a cat though!

GUIDO.
 
My dad would lightly tap the brake pedal until the bubbles came out of the master cylinder, then would bleed each cylinder individually.
 
Hello Hobo,NC,

That works! Many times I was a one man show, but that is not what I used.......stay tuned
to see what I still use, cheap and one man show. Picture coming,

GUIDO.
 
Hello Gavid G,

Smart man! No air in the master cylinder, easy to get the rest of the air out...


Guido.
 
Hello Bob Bancroft,

You would have hated the hydrovacs system I had to deal with in the service. They were a bear to bleed, especially when a new hydro buster-master cylinder was replaced,

GUIDO.
 
The ones that had the sloped master cylinders would require a line to loop back into the bowl from the outlets to get all the air out.
 
Hello The tractor vet,

Gravity bleeding was not an option when I turned wrenches. Lots of times that is not really an option anyhow. Ever see brake fluid or wiped fluid marks on a brand new vehicle? I will post my way of bleeding brakes later.....


GUIDO.
 
Hello David G,

That line carried the rest of the air bubbles to make the system air free. Bet you he did not read that in any service manual? Just common sense or good understanting of how things work!

GUIDO.
 
I remember when GM came out with he sloped master cylinders, remember reading that in the chilton manual.
 
Hello David G,

What year was that, my newest chilton is in the 70's

GUIDO.
 
Hello MarkB_MI,

That works too. That system was not available in the 60's though. Those hydrovac were not fun to bleed at all. Next time you see a Mash episode listen to those 3/4 ton truck-ambulance's brakes squill. Music to my ears, and impossible to stop them from announcing your arrival......

Guido.
 
I am always by myself, so I gravity bleed first, then finish up with a prop rod type tool that holds the pedal down , then bleed each conventionally. It takes a while but you do what you gotta do. I do have a power bleeder but rarely use it because on a lot of newer cars it wont fit or seal to the master top.
 
Pump this a few pumps and pressure feed the master cyl. while applying suction to bleeder with Might vac attached to cup. Only problem it is Dot 5 . need another for dot 4
a210292.jpg
 
Hello dr sportster,


Got one of them, migty vac here! I used mine for Detroit Diesel piston pin washer. Zero leak allowed. I pressed them in after afew years, good install every time. You can't mix or match 4 and 5.? Its all dot is it not? HA. HA.......


GUIDO
 
Hello Super-H-Mike,

Get er done anyway you can. I got an easyer way to bleed them, BUT you'll have to stay tuned though, later......

GUIDO.
 
You guys brake talk got me to thinking about years ago. We had a Lockheed wagner pressure bleeder that rolled around on the floor, it held a gallon or two of fluid and you aired it up. It had a valve in the hose next to the master cylinder end and had different screw in caps for the old all cast iron (no plastic res.) master cylinders of all different auto manufactures. We last used it early 1970s
 
That takes a lot of air out with a few short easy strokes, then if by myself I had a piece of clear hose with a check valve in one end, slide over a bleeder and stick other end in a bottle and pump a few times.
 
I've used several methods, just depends on the difficulty.

One method is to completely remove the bleeder screw, hold my finger over the hole, have assistant slowly and fully pump the pedal. This method is effective when there is air trapped in a line, it keeps the fluid moving so the bubble can't run back up to the high point.

Another I have used is to reverse bleed. This comes in handy when there is no assistant or the system is a difficult to bleed design. I use a NEW pump type oil can. Attach a short piece of clear vinyl hose (so you can see that there are no bubbles coming from the pump can), attach it to an open and CLEANED bleeder screw, pump fluid up through the master cylinder until the bubbles stop.

A strange situation I encountered years ago, a Clark forklift, had the wheel cylinders mounted vertically. No amount of bleeding would get the trapped air out of the top half of the cylinders. I had to bleed them before the shoes were installed. Remove the top piston, pull the cup to the side, very carefully press the pedal until the air was out, reassemble the cylinder.
 
The brakes on the M.A.S.H. ambulances squealed because they had a Dodge 3/4 ton truck attached to them. Chrysler products also had another distinctly recognizable sound. Their starters were noisy. If you had 100 cars in a parking lot you could find the Chrysler product by the sound of the starter.
 
I have had exceptional luck with the three dollar one man brake bleeder kit from the cheap auto stores. I use them on cars, trucks, and motorcycles alike. I ignore the part about it only taking one man, though. I have the missus run the pedal and I mind the bottle/master cylinder. I particularly like the fact that I get to see the fluid coming out. If it is dirty or contaminated, I simply keep pushing fluid through til everything is clean. I do not reuse the fluid. I buy the big bottles of fluid now due to the loss of fluid inherent in this method. I have tried a power bleeder but didn't get enough experience with it to say much about it. All the local kids bring their dirt bikes by when they are having problems. No one else around here will fool with motorcycles brakes. Lucky me.

Aaron.
 
Hello Steve@Advance,

I have not seen that kind of system. But I would think that flooding the system with fluid would displace the air and push it ahead of the outgoing fluid?

GUIDO.
 
Hello Jim in rush co,

You remember that far back? Me too, it looked more like a vacuum cleaner then a brake bleeder! I don't remember how much fluid it took, but hard to run out on any jobs!

GUIDO.
 
Hello gab,

Sounds like you got it covered. I use a similar method. I will post later,

GUIDO.
 
Man that is soooooo true. There was a distinct sound they made you always knew it was a mopar . Just like the sound of a detroit diesel rolling down the road. sounded like it was running 100 mph but was only doing 40 LOL
 
I vacuum the fluid out of the reservoir and pump it back full from a brake cylinder for each wheel.
 
One thing i learned about bleeding brakes by stroking the brake pedal was to never push the brake pedal past it's normal travel.
If you stroke past the normal travel you can tear the cup edges in your master cylinder from corrosion in the untraveled area of the bore. If my wife is pushing the pedal while I'm opening and closing bleeder screws - I put a block of wood under the pedal to limit the stroke.
 
Last brake work I did was in 2010, My step Dad had passed away and when we got the 2 old cars running so we could sell them found one had rusted lines. It ran great but had to haul it home to repair.
 
ive got w regular brake bleeding kit set up for most vehicles, the method used depends on what im playing with, for modern stuff with a dual mastercylinder i start at the farthest wheel from the m/c, at the rear then go to the farthest one on the front, then back to the other side rear then back up front the ides being to try to keep the purposining valve centered or at least keep it from closing off one end or the other, for the old stuff with a single resivor m/c i start at the farthest rear, then go to the opisite rear then to the farthest front ect, keeping an eye on the fluid level those old ones dont have much back in the 1950 s ect, i wont mess with or own one with antilock brakes so have no idea there, one of my primary considerations on vehicles is if i cant fix it i dont want it
 
Sorry to not reply earlier. When by myself, which is most of the time, I assembled a vacuum bleeder made out of an old air compressor (older than myself, over 60) and a glass jar, and some hoses. I hooked the intake side of the compressor (vacuum) to a glass jar, with the hose just inside the top. Then I added a little brake fluid to the jar. In a second hole in the lid, I inserted another hose that went clear to the bottom of the jar. I connect the hose that goes just below the cap to the compressor, and the hose below the fluid level to the bleeder screw. Then I start the compressor and crack the bleeder screw until bubbles quit coming out of the submersed hose. However now and then I forget to keep an eye on the master cylinder and start sucking air into the system. I will be using tomorrow, hopefully, to bleed my truck. Today was a reason not to brag about small victories. When I do that it bites me in the butt!
 
Hello Jim in rush co,

I did get involved on a few brake jobs in 2015. Rear brakes on one, master cylinder in another one, rear brakes and cylinders in another one, brakes all the way around in another one. Front brakes and rotors on another one. Repaded the last one, they were too noisy for the owner. I am not hooolding down a job. I should , probably do less brake work. Did not make a cent. Cost me gas to chase the parts down. Maybe I'm Just lucky I guess! A couple vehicles here in the family have about 150.000 miles each, a few brake jobs later are still on the road. Sure do not need the practice!

GUIDO.
 
Hello IA Roy,

I can't post a picture of the way I have been bleeding brakes since tbe 60's.
If you can wait untill tomorrow I may save you some work and will guarantee you ecxellent results. I'm hoping to post about 9A.M. eastern time,

Guido.
 
(quoted from post at 00:36:35 01/03/16) Hello Hobo,NC,

That works! Many times I was a one man show, but that is not what I used.......stay tuned
to see what I still use, cheap and one man show. Picture coming,

GUIDO.
Click to expand...

I have HO-Made vacuum pumps and pressure tanks and brought my share of equipment to bleed brakes. I done a many with aMityvac 7300. A vacuum set up will suck air past the wheel cylinder cup tho rare it does happen. A Chebby truck is the worst of the bunch for this I always go behind them and manually bleed those after a test drive.

A mid to late 90's to 2000 chebby truck is the worst of the bunch no matter how you bleed it are what tools you have to work with... :cry: Chebbys with quick take up master cylinders can tho curve balls all day long...

Back flushing well if its old I have had to do that on one 60 series chebby other that that never had to go there on anything else. You stand a chance of eating a abs hydraulic modulator if you go there and its yours that fudge up all you own it yours its your right...

I have invested in equipment that will do the job and like to make some money along the way. This is one area were I feel its good for me and the customer..

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http://digital.brakeandfrontend.com//launch.aspx?eid=ebf31986-12d0-444f-98c9-7efdf6ac39ba
 
Hello Gene Davis (GA.)

Yep you are right. Geared up starter also unique. Cracked a few of those open in my time at the dealership,

GUIDO.
 

I have never used one always wanted one. I don't think they recommend you back flush all brake systems with it, they come with adapters to go inside of the reservoir are take the reservoir off and inject. I would have to be at the end of my rope to back flush a hydraulic brake system unless it was all new...

If every thing was made to free bleed were all the air would flow out the bleeder life would be simple...
 
Hello ditchwitch,

DD school 1976, a fleet full of those high winder 71's and 92's to keep running. Good old days, but I don't miss them,

GUIDO.
 
Hello Hobo, NC,

NICE! Makes me wish I was still turning wrenches......not!
Never done back flush, I always put new on top, let old out of the bottom. Works for me,

GUIDO.
 
I must of spent a half a day trying to get a good pedal on one of those Chevy trucks including the brake module bleed with the scanner. Took it for a road test, still had a soft pedal, pulled back into the lot pizzed and slammed on the brakes in the snow covered lot, after the module did its thing while sliding a couple hundred feet the pedal went up. Did it a couple more times and parked it in the done row. Did that to a couple more trucks on loose gravel too.
 
Not a brake system but a 1986 1/2 ton Chevy 4wd my brother in law brought to me late one evening had me pulling my hair out. We put a new clutch master as well as slave on the truck and I could not get the air out. The best I remember the master was angled on the firewall in such a way that I couldn't clear all the air out of the system. After some fussing and fuming I opened the master's bleeder and hooked a line to the slave and used a syringe to inject it from the bottom up. Perfect, fixed, he left around midnight. I felt stupid but at least he didn't leave having to pump his clutch up to find a shop Monday morning.
 
With all due respect, if that were the case, a partial brake failure would instantly become a total brake failure. If a master cylinder is worn that badly as to be able to cut the rubber cups internally, it is SHOT and should have already been replaced. There are just too many circumstances that could cause a brake pedal to travel past its normal range of travel. By your reasoning, that would cause a brake failure EACH TIME the pedal exceeded its normal travel.
 
I've used the 2 person pump the pedal method, gravity feed, and the latest is a vacuum thing from snap on. Just put it on the bleeder screw, open the screw and start vacuuming. Worked real nice, and is is on an old body 2000 K3500. Had a 1997 K1500 that I had a heck of a time bleeding. Eventually did some research,and found that people were putting on master cylinders from the newer style trucks. Bled that good and had a good stiff pedal, still had no damn breaking power though. I think the booster was bad, but I was so sick of dealing with it. At least I had a consistent pedal.
 
(quoted from post at 23:53:33 01/03/16) I've used the 2 person pump the pedal method, gravity feed, and the latest is a vacuum thing from snap on. Just put it on the bleeder screw, open the screw and start vacuuming. Worked real nice, and is is on an old body 2000 K3500. Had a 1997 K1500 that I had a heck of a time bleeding. Eventually did some research,and found that people were putting on master cylinders from the newer style trucks. Bled that good and had a good stiff pedal, still had no damn breaking power though. I think the booster was bad, but I was so sick of dealing with it. At least I had a consistent pedal.
Click to expand...

Fact ! about the time you think you are bleeding master one will come along and whoop your arse... The last one that whooped me up (Chebby) the last shop had installed the wrong year master they all look alike :evil:... Quick take up masters, low drag brake calipers then throw in ABS and the usual everything is worn out can make for a interesting days work.. Fancy tools are HO-MADE there are sill allot of questions that must be answered...
 
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