using air to move diesel fuel

rust-o · Dec 24, 2015

I am in the process of setting up a fuel tank for fueling tractors, and have been exploring my fuel transfer possibilities. I have used hand crank pumps, electric pumps, and air to move fuel in the past, and air is my preference. My question is, is it safe to use air with a tank that is not designed for pressure. In other words, the air diesel tank that i have used in the past was an old ammonia tank that was built for pressure. But what I have on hand to use now is an old 250 gal heating oil tank. As i understand these tanks are pressure tested to 5psi when they are made, and 3 psi would be plenty for fueling tractors...
Opinions... Is this safe or utterly stupid?
feel free to be honest!
Thanks, and have a Merry Christmas

fixerupper · Dec 24, 2015

The anhydrous tank has a built in safety factor of sorts, meaning if you screw up and put, say, fifty pounds pressure in it the tank will not blow up. The fuel oil tank will violently remind you of your error much sooner.

David G · Dec 24, 2015

Putting air pressure on a non rated tank is never a good idea.

RGMartin · Dec 24, 2015

I have done it in non rated tanks where it is obvious they are over built(Case dozer that was made of 1/4" plate, and wouldn't prime). A normal fuel tank is asking for trouble if it gets to more than a couple pounds.

jturbo10 · Dec 24, 2015

If you do decide to use a non certified tank pressurized by air then you need to add a pressure relief valve of sufficient size to vacate excess pressure. I'm not an expert on air pressure tanks but if it was me I would spend the money to do it according to code and not have to worry about failures and disasters. My dad had a friend killed when he built a homemade air compressor which over pressurized and exploded. My electric tanks work great and I always use grounding wires. JMHO

David G · Dec 24, 2015

You need a pressure relief on ANY tank, certified or not to meet ASME standards, the relief must be sized for full flow and maximum pressure.

jon f mn · Dec 24, 2015

Any leak or failure will result in pressurised fuel being blown all over uncontrolably. Imagine fuel
blowing out the hose like the water outof your air hose only through a larger hose.

fixerupper · Dec 24, 2015

A neighbor was using air pressure to transfer fuel out of a regular fuel barrel and it was working fine till the hired man plugged an unregulated air hose into the tank and walked away. When the tank bulged everybody ran for cover. Instead of an explosion a seam let go and it sprayed the entire contents out on the ground.

David G · Dec 24, 2015

A non certified tank needs a vent.

tomNE · Dec 24, 2015

I just put an adjustable regulator on tank and set it at 5lbs. works great. old semi side tank. proly been using it 10yrs. tank came off an 89 white gmc.

Andy Martin · Dec 24, 2015

Being a registered professional engineer I can't recommend it, but at 3 psi you will be OK if you absolutely limit the pressure to 3 psi. One easy way to do that is to put a large nozzle on top with a weight on it. You don't mind if the nozzle leaks a little air. For instance, a 2" sch 40 pipe has an internal area of 3.36 sq inches. At 3 psi that takes 10 lbs to hold the pressure. If you put a 4-1/2" round steel plate on the top that is 2" thick (or four 1/2" plates) that is about 9 lbs. With a normal air hose you would never overpressure a tank with a relief valve like that. too much leakage and the plate will vibrate off and leave a full 2" vent.

David G · Dec 24, 2015

That is actually a pretty clever way to make a pressure relief, figure the area, the weight and that gives you the PSI relief.

rust-o · Dec 24, 2015

alright, thanks every-one for the quick response. this confirmed my suspicions!

Tom OConnor · Dec 24, 2015

Several years ago their was a local fellow killed trying to empty a fuel oil tank in a basement when they
were converting a furnace over to gas with a little air pressure. I have used propane and Nh3 tanks for
diesel fuel for many years very successfully but to use a standard fuel tank with air pressure is an
accident waiting to happen. If you do go this route be sure to increase your liability insurance
proportionately.

Dick2 · Dec 24, 2015

Also your health insurance, preferably the type that pays for help for an extended time while you recover. Our insurance only gives us 6 weeks of outside care.

cs.hess · Dec 24, 2015

Not a good idea.If an when you might have a unforseen situation where air an fuel
would be ejected the ignition temperature of the misted fuel is considerably lower
than liquid Diesel fuel an therfore chance of fire is much greater.

showcrop · Dec 24, 2015

They do make air powered transfer pumps. The ones that I have seen were either diaphragm or piston type.

jnf · Dec 24, 2015

Just to provoke thought; will compressed air introduce moisture to the fuel?

Duner Wi · Dec 24, 2015

Years ago gravity worked pretty good.
Large diameter hose speeded things up.
Your delivery man might hate you.

gajack · Dec 24, 2015

Check out FLUX DRUM and CONTAINER Pumps, Kennesaw GA. Contact Mike Forzono

Russ from MN · Dec 24, 2015

As others have said, too many things can go wrong using air, get an electric fuel pump.

MikeinKy · Dec 24, 2015

I used to drive a tanker for a living over the road and we were told it was against the law to use air for any flammable liquid. If it was flammable we had choice of a pump or nitrogen if it was available.

Lazy WP · Dec 24, 2015

We used to do it all the time. Semi truck tendering Ag Chem Floaters. The fuel caps on an International truck won't hold more then 10psi of air. Sure saved on electric
pumps.

fixerupper · Dec 24, 2015

On a humerous note, the outfit I worked for on the harvest used air pressure to empty their portable fuel tank when they were first getting started and didn't want to spend the money for an electric pump. I think he said the tank was a regular 300 gallon fuel barrel. He always filled the combines himself and he used very low pressure. One day one of the young men on the crew decided to fill his combine without the boss's permission so he took the air hose, plugged it into the tank and then got sidelined and walked away. The tank made a bang when one of the ends bowed out and it was then that he saw the error of his ways but he was afraid to unplug the air hose from the tank so he ran and hid, along with the rest of the crew. When the tank let go a seam broke loose and let the fuel and pressure out without an explosion so there was no big dramatic ending but the boss said it was quite a sight to see the crew hiding behind machinery, peering around the corners at the tank.

ObsoElitist · Dec 24, 2015

Our 1927 Cadillac uses a hand pump tp pressurize the tank to 3 Lbs before starting, then the engine mounted air pump keeps it around 5 PSI. This tank was designed for it, not sure if yours will take it.

K Effective · Dec 24, 2015

We used to use air to transfer gas and diesel from a 275 heating fuel tank on the truck up to our gravity storage tanks. Dad worked for a company that made small air pumps and vacuum pumps, so he knew his pump limits- we never hooked to a large tank of air at high pressure.

One of the prize give-aways at his company picnic one year was to guess how long it would take one of the company vacuum pumps to collapse a steel 55 gallon drum. I remember that thing imploding during the company president's speech, what a racket!

T in NE · Dec 25, 2015

The fuel caps for heavy truck tanks are made to release pressure in a hurry in case of being damaged in a wreck. Let liquid fuel out instead of allowing pressure to get high enough to rupture the tank.
If you could find a couple cheap used semi tanks that could be a way to go if wanting to move the fuel with air pressure.

ldj · Dec 25, 2015

I do this 3 or 4 times a year. I have an old visible gas pump with underground tank. To refill underground tank I fill a plastic 30 gal drum. I siphon the fuel out to the ground tank. To get it started I use a little air pressure, very little. I don't even make a solid connection. Just hold open hose to vent on the tank and it pressurizes it enough to get siphon started.

mj · Dec 25, 2015

(quoted from post at 10:31:44 12/24/15) I am in the process of setting up a fuel tank for fueling tractors, and have been exploring my fuel transfer possibilities. I have used hand crank pumps, electric pumps, and air to move fuel in the past, and air is my preference. My question is, is it safe to use air with a tank that is not designed for pressure. In other words, the air diesel tank that i have used in the past was an old ammonia tank that was built for pressure. But what I have on hand to use now is an old 250 gal heating oil tank. As i understand these tanks are pressure tested to 5psi when they are made, and 3 psi would be plenty for fueling tractors...
Opinions... Is this safe or utterly stupid?
feel free to be honest!
Thanks, and have a Merry Christmas

I use that method to move diesel from a metal 5 gallon can (5-10 psi) and also used it to move water-soluble oil from a 55 gal. drum (5-10 psi) into a 4-spindle drill press while working in a tool factory - just watch the pressure and you'll be fine.

using air to move diesel fuel

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