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IH 560 Diesel no start after head work

J

jat1979

New User
Hello, hoping someone has some insight as to why my tractor will not start. 560 with a D282 engine. Tractor was running with a miss when I got it. Tore apart, found bent push tube on exhaust valve. Long story short, head was found to be bad by machine shop. Purchased a reman head, had machine shop check it out and installed all new valves, etc. Installed new head gasket, seal rings for injectors, etc. Adjusted all valves to. 027" as per a manual and trying to start tractor. Will not fire, just little hints that it's trying every now and then. I've tried small amounts of ether to help it along but won't fire on it either. Any ideas? I plan on tearing back down to check valves adj again but I checked them at least 3 times before putting cover, fuel tank, etc back on. Tractor ran fine before head replacement other than miss on one cylinder. Cyl walls looked good while apart
 
Yes, have fuel to each injector. Just cracked all lines one at a time till fuel started seeping out then tightened all down. Not firing on a bit of ether has me stumped
 
I worked on a tractor(green) that I had to bleed a lot. It would try to hit on either but not start. Put a battery charger on it so it spins over fast.
 
If there is no white fuel vapor out the exhaust, fuel isn't getting past the injectors. Could still have some air in the lines. Might try more bleeding,or if possible try to pull start it.

Did you have the injector pump off? If you are getting white vapor, and no start, could be out of time.
 
Injection pump was not removed. I do have the normal white smoke and puffs of black smoke here and there. Thinking I should bypass fuel filters with clean fuel out of a canister and try that.
 
Valve adjustment is probably fine. Just make sure you are getting fuel to the injectors. I ran my JD 401 out of fuel one time. I thought I was going to wear the starter out before it started. Be careful with ether. I tried it on my 401. It made a noise I didn't like. I will not use it again on that tractor. Stan
 
If possible to do safely, pull start it.

Make sure the glowplugs are working and warm 'em up while pulling it.
 
I was thinking of a compression test too. Didn't worry about that too much because it ran well before and cylinder walls looked good. I could lift loader up and try pull starting
 
are you getting smoke out the exhaust? i understand that engine is very sensitive to having the pre-combustion chambers rightside up (the hole down to
the cylinder is not centered, and it matters that the word "up" is up)
 
I will bet that getting cranking over fast buy pulling it (start with the injector lines "cracked" at the injectors, then tighten when all air is out) will get it going.
 
Did you get ALL the precups aligned properly? If not it will be a beast to start. There is "UP" stamped into one side which must be up.
Tim
 
A forgotten rag stuffed into the air intake sysyem ?

Maybe the ether is not making the trip to the cylinders.

If air system is clear, you are lacking compression.
 
Just seeping might not be enough. Leave them loose until it's coming out under pressure and all bubbles have gone.
 
I will start by doing that, making sure I have more than just a seep and making sure there is some good pressure coming out of the lines
 
I would NOT try to pull start it!

Since you have smoke then you are getting some fuel in there. How about the glow plugs? The 282D really needs the glow plugs to be working well. At least 40 seconds on the glow plugs and then start rolling it over. We have had it happen where the battery is soft and after the glow plug warm-up the battery could not crank fast enough to start (on an average motor with plenty of hours).

Run the glow plugs for 30 seconds or so and feel each one to see if they are getting hot.
 
I did not make sure glow plugs were working. It was almost 70deg this weekend so didn't think they were hugely needed. I will check those to. Any idea what the specs are on them testing with a meter to make sure they are good?
 
Even without glow plugs working it should fire on
ether. You are loosing compression through the
valves. Back then off slightly and try it.
 
I think you can just check them with a test light. Hook the test light to the battery and touch it to the spade on the glow plug with the wire off. If it's good,it should complete the circuit and light the light. If it's burned out,it won't complete the circuit. If it's 70 degrees,I highly doubt that's your problem. I just don't think you have all the air out.
 
We have a couple of 560's and a 706 and they need glow plug warm up to start even on 100 degree days. I don't know of a current reading for operation, we just use the good old hand feel test. I know, not very scientific. I don't have a 560 book here at this place but will look around to see what I can find.
 
I agree with testing the glow plugs to be sure. We had a 656 with the D282 in it and even after a total engine rebuild we still had to use the glow plugs no matter what temp.
 
My 706 was like that. When my 4040 Deere started acting like that,I changed the fuel pump. The lift pump that pushes the fuel up through the filters. That was all that was wrong with it. By that time I had gotten rid of the 706,but I always figured that was what was wrong with it.
 
Seems a lot of the replies are missing the part about it not firing with ETHER to me ?

HELLO........ RED flag here GUYS !!!!!!
 
Engines need 3 things to run. Fire, fuel, and compression. A diesel gets fire from the compression. Run compression test. The ether is giving it fuel. I will bet the vavle rocker arms will not budge, give them a slight gap and start the damn thing
 
I don't know. I've shot so much ether in to an unprimed engine before that all it would do is hammer. Still wouldn't make an effort to start. If it was equipped with an ether injector so it would inject a fine mist,ya it should make an attempt to start,but just blasting a load in the intake,maybe not.
 
"I would NOT try to pull start it!"

May I ask WHY, assuming he has competent help to do it safely?
 
I will check valve adjustments again but there was a. 027 gap in all before I tried starting. Guess I need to check compression as well as valve adj and see what I got
 
Best way to check glow plugs is to take them out and watch them heat up red hot within about 15 seconds, BUT, that is only necessary on rare occasion. Next best way, and the way I do it is to unhook all but one glow plug. Make darn sure no unhooked wire is touching tractor. Then watch the glow plug meter while pressing button. I good system will show almost half way on a good gauge. Check each one that way. No reading, burnt out, high reading, odd ball glow plug or shorted out and required removal to test farther. Make sure all glow plug connections are good and tight. On valve settings, if you have .027 on top dead center (compression stroke) you are good. If you accidentely set them on exhaust stroke they will be very loose but should still start. As far as bleeding, if it ran before, really no bleeding is necessary unless you had filters or pump apart. Glow plugs should be toward valve cover side (top) when installed. You definitely have to use them to start, even if it was 100 degrees out. Pre cup engines do not build enough turbulence or compression heat cranking unless engine is A one and really warmed up good from running. Cranking speed, have to spin to win like some say. No draggy turning over. The next, most serious consideration, valve recession in head. You want those valve right up close to head surface. Some run them flush but that is a little risky. New specs are about .030 below head but you can run them higher than that. I used to put them at about .010. Recessed in head destroys the squish area, lowers compression ratio considerably. Just .050 recession on both valves will lower you one whole point. Your bent push rod most likely came from someone using ether to start it. Never, ever ever use ether at the same time you are using glow plugs. It can blow the whole intake system right off the tractor. Not a good practice on that engine at any time, but I have seen guys use it being darn sure no glow plugs have been on for several minutes. I even saw one combine engine with a D-301 where they installed a ether injector attachment. It was a leased combine from a neighboring dealer and the guy leasing it brought it in for me to check. All the pre cups were about 90 degrees off. Reason being, when you install the nozzle assembly, often time the fuel line is in the way so you rotate the nozzle to clear line. This can rotate that pre cup along with nozzle. Also, you can pull start no problem. Just be sure to use fifth gear, TA in direct drive, hold glow plugs and use full throttle. That reminds me, make sure the fuel shut off is fully against the stop and use full throttle for starting. At low setting the metering valve may not be moved far enough to inject more than a pittance of fuel. It's a three handed job, one on starter, one on glow plugs and third one on throttle to pop it back as soon as it fires up.
 
Cranking it will cause enough heat to throw it out of adjustment, thats why you set them at operating temp.
The temp and slight imperfections make a big difference
 
Valve recession if I remember correctly was at between .015 and. 020. All injectors and cups are in correctly. I just feel I should start over and check valve adjustments and work on bleeding fuel system.
 
It has to do with risk assessment and troubleshooting. In this case, there has been considerable disassembly and now something is not right. It should start electrically and it doesn't. Pull starting may mask the actual problem or you may miss noises or other clues to help you get it solved.

The worst offense to me is trying to pull start some totally unknown fence row tractor. I've seen people do this and tear things up when it was totally unnecessary.

Now in a situation where you have a tractor that you know runs otherwise and it has a known problem such as dead battery or bad starter then pull starting may be just fine.

I'm not condemning all pull starting, just not what I would do if I were in the OP's situation.
 
(quoted from post at 15:32:39 12/14/15) Valve recession if I remember correctly was at between .015 and. 020. All injectors and cups are in correctly. I just feel I should start over and check valve adjustments and work on bleeding fuel system.
Click to expand...

That is where I would start. I am waiting for the head work to get done on mine and then I can try to bleed mine.

I do have good working glow plugs, as said above 30 seconds minimum above 32° and give it some throttle.

Mine starts easy if you follow the book procedure for starting.
 
Hello jat1979,

You did not say or I missed the procedure you used to adjust the valves. Assuming you have good even compression, it may be all you need to redo. Here is how:
Put the #1 cylinder in the firing position, you can use the damper timing mark, or the rotor pointing to #1 and the points just starting to open.
With #1 in that,(TDC) position adjust 1,2,4 intake and 1,3.5 exhaust.
With #6 in the )TDC) position adjust 3,5,6 intake and 2,4.6 exhaust. I assume you have the correct valve lash setting?.
Engine would fire on heather if, was not getting any fuel, and all also was right! That's my guess,

Guido.
 
I will use this procedure and recheck them. I just did one by one rotating the engine over until push tubes were not in action. I assumed this way would work. I seen no marks on dampener. Thought about pulling injectors and just using a straw to find tdc when rechecking them
 
(quoted from post at 19:29:37 12/14/15) I will use this procedure and recheck them. I just did one by one rotating the engine over until push tubes were not in action. I assumed this way would work. I seen no marks on dampener. Thought about pulling injectors and just using a straw to find tdc when rechecking them
Click to expand...

Clean the damper well, they are there......
 
You do know there are TWO different head gaskets for that engine. Have to check the serial number and get down to the fine reading in a fell pro catalog , or find the original ih service bulletin.
 
I ordered the head gasket kit from tractor parts asap. Spoke to a rep to confirm the gasket kit they offered was for my cylinder head because I seen there are diff heads avail. When installing new gasket I made sure all ports, holes, cylinder crush rings, etc looked good to which they did. What would be the difference in the head gaskets?
 
I like red, that said . no engine on earth that is more annoying to start cold than a d282. All glow plugs must work well, batteries 100%, cables perfect, and no fuel leaks. All this or 75 degrees F ref 416 ih cottonpicker new in 1975 hard to start from first day till it left 1984 happyday good luck.
 
Had a local guy with a 460 he didn't use much. It needed new batteries. They were so bad they wouldn't heat the glow plugs enough to pull start it. But he kept pulling & with the generator charging it finally started. But it took about a mile behind the pickup!
 
If it is giving a little black smoke, that is firing. Use those glow plugs for at least a minute or more. We start them in the winter with a block heater & still hold the plugs a long time to get them to fire.
 

Three things: First, in order to get enough compression for it to fire you need in addition to proper valve timing and settings and good rings, adequate cranking speed. Second: the valve train is all new Third: check and try easier things before more difficult. As Bob said try towing it in order to get the cranking speed.
 
Finally got my 560 running today. Just took about 5 minutes pulling it around the field and it kicked off. Runs very well. Thanks everyone for the ideas and suggestions. I am now in the hunt for the glow plug control/gauge. Accidentally broke mine today.
 
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