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new vs old

B

blue924.9

Member
ok all, in the near future i am going to buy a 4wd, i am currently working and saving as i wont be purchasing anything but maybe a home in the near future with a loan. i am stepping up to a 4wd, and also at least a 3/4 ton, if i find a rocking deal i will go 1 ton but SRW. i have put some thought into this and have come up with a couple of ideas, first is i could buy a 06 ish truck with 150k ish miles on it with my budget which will be roughly 20 grand max. i would not have to do anything and i would have a fairly new truck with fairly low miles and be one of the last pre emissions trucks there are.

my other option is to buy an old idi diesel or cummins (going for mechanical injection), put some money into the motor and truck to fix it up and have a older but still perfectly driveable truck, i would more than likely be fixing rust on the body and coating the frame and maybe body to keep rust away and after that take my available money and stick it into the motor to get some more power, nothing crazy, head studs intercooler upgraded turbo maybe a cam exhaust and a mild pump.

my question is ( and i know what forum this is so answers may be biased lol) is should i spring fora newer diesel that i can jump in an enjoy the luxuries or an older diesel that i can get for way cheaper and put some money into and enjoy the simplicity. i will be using the truck for hauling logs and firewood for myself, my parents and my grandma, i will also haul hay and livestock with it as well as my smaller pulling tractors. it will also be used as a driver when the weather is bad, slippery muddy ect, as i live way out in the country and am getting sick of throwing chains on and off my 92 f150. whatever vehicle i get will be a diesel, not only becuase of the towing i do but also because i work at a John Deere dealer and can get parts, oil, filters ect for at cost of the dealer so roughly 50 percent of what a normal customer would pay, becuase we do not deal with gas engines, much if at all the dealer does not have a connection for gas parts and therefore can not get them at a discount, which makes the gas and diesel parts cost very close to the same. luckily this means i also have the tools and skills to perform most if not all of the work on an older diesel

thanks for reading,
 
Man I sure am confused ?
A John Deere dealer with connections with discounts on other than John Deere parts, those connection surly also sell gas engine parts at the same discounts too ?
oils-diesel oil will works same as in gas
filters -Deere even sold them for gas cars engines
Standard mark up used to be 35% over cost on Deere parts.
At 50% your dealer must be gouging it's customers. But that's they way with the new market strategy of the MEGA stores. You used to be able to go down the road to the next dealer. Now they are all owned by the same people so no competition.

For occasional hauling gas @ $ 1.83 per gallon verse $ 2.59 for diesel right now a diesel pickup makes little sense. A gas engine will do the same job for less money. Nobody NEEDS to top the hill at 80+ MPH.
 
Your already not making enough sense . Using the word you used " enjoy" you say you want to enjoy the luxury of a new truck or enjoy the simplicity of a truck with 150,000 miles. I think you would enjoy a new truck because of the annoying factor of used. I get a discount on parts is not a good enough reason to get a huge diesel. Picture yourself driving and using the truck or working on and dumping money into it.
 
Depends a little where you are, but rusting body parts are a never ending battle. I have had diesel pickups in the past, will never own another unless it's under warranty. I would not go as far back as the idi
engines, but the 7.3 and 12v Cummins are pretty good. As a Deere diesel tech you should be aware of the problems with the late model diesels ie injectors, turbos, egr... Currently have an 08 F350 w/v10, love it. Will
haul anything I need it to. (I've had 22000 on the trailer.) If the engine ever goes, a long block is not much more than a set of injectors for my last diesel. Also, I am a former Deere tech, I could buy anything from
the dealership at cost. That just got the price down to comparable with shopping elsewhere.
 
(quoted from post at 13:06:11 11/18/15) Man I sure am confused ?
A John Deere dealer with connections with discounts on other than John Deere parts, those connection surly also sell gas engine parts at the same discounts too ?
oils-diesel oil will works same as in gas
filters -Deere even sold them for gas cars engines
Standard mark up used to be 35% over cost on Deere parts.
At 50% your dealer must be gouging it's customers. But that's they way with the new market strategy of the MEGA stores. You used to be able to go down the road to the next dealer. Now they are all owned by the same people so no competition.

For occasional hauling gas @ $ 1.83 per gallon verse $ 2.59 for diesel right now a diesel pickup makes little sense. A gas engine will do the same job for less money. Nobody NEEDS to top the hill at 80+ MPH.
Click to expand...

could be, all the techs get parts for their trucks through the dealership and when i asked the parts manager i was told that we dont buy enough gas parts to get the bulk purchase discount from our supplier. also i have run the numbers for mileage and towing with my current truck and reported mileage towing from forums on diesels and i am in the gray area for if it pays to have a diesel or not
 
(quoted from post at 13:34:41 11/18/15) Your already not making enough sense . Using the word you used " enjoy" you say you want to enjoy the luxury of a new truck or enjoy the simplicity of a truck with 150,000 miles. I think you would enjoy a new truck because of the annoying factor of used. I get a discount on parts is not a good enough reason to get a huge diesel. Picture yourself driving and using the truck or working on and dumping money into it.
Click to expand...

correct, new truck luxury would be nice but i also enjoy the simplicity and ability to work on older rigs as well so for me its a toss up and not really a deal breaker either way
 
(quoted from post at 13:06:11 11/18/15) Man I sure am confused ?
A John Deere dealer with connections with discounts on other than John Deere parts, those connection surly also sell gas engine parts at the same discounts too ?
oils-diesel oil will works same as in gas
filters -Deere even sold them for gas cars engines
Standard mark up used to be 35% over cost on Deere parts.
At 50% your dealer must be gouging it's customers. But that's they way with the new market strategy of the MEGA stores. You used to be able to go down the road to the next dealer. Now they are all owned by the same people so no competition.

For occasional hauling gas @ $ 1.83 per gallon verse $ 2.59 for diesel right now a diesel pickup makes little sense. A gas engine will do the same job for less money. Nobody NEEDS to top the hill at 80+ MPH.
Click to expand...

not sure where you are located but fuel prices are not even close to what you have here, here it is 2.0x for ethanol, 2.4x for regular and 2.5x for diesel
 
If you are planning to get a loan for a house (mortgage?), look over your credit score and pencil out how another large purchase or another large loan (like a truck) will affect your credit score and your ability to get a home loan.

From your description, it sounds like you will keep your current daily driver and upgrade your 2wd '92 F150 to a heavier 4wd pickup that will be an occasional driver and occasional puller. Why not look at used gas pickups to save some capital and reduce operating costs? It sounds like you have a use for a 4wd pickup, but don't have a need for a diesel.
 
I would go used. Fix it up the way you want it. New trucks are nice, but payments are not. (Unless you really don't like or can't work on your truck).
 
You should seriously consider a newer gas truck. My friend Jeff has a 2012 ford F250 with the new 6.4?
litre gas and it pulls real good, and he gets 14 +/- mpg driving around. Would be hard to justify the
cost of a diesel over that. I know that Dodge has a good gas too, not too sure about gm.
 
My ideas, only buy gasoline power, used of possibly 2 to 4 years old. I would not consider any truck where road salt compounds are
used. This would be southern states. My thinking is watch winter construction auction or company sales, carefully checking
records. Many large construction companies do not report to car fax and are self insuring,therefor close inspection is required.
Ideal truck may be for a superintendents ,or foreman truck. Only drawback to me would be most will be white in color, I hate
white!! If I found the truck repainting would be ok in my opinion. Keep debt LOW.If you cannot pay cash for used late model
buy older and save what payment would be each month till YOU have the cash. Good luck
 
If you are like me and only need a truck for occasional hauling then by far the cheapest thing to do is keep your old pickup for hauling and upgrade your daily driver to an all wheel drive crossover SUV. I also think just about any modern front wheel drive car with traction control works very well in bad weather. The only issue is deep snow that lifts the car up when you drive over it. I only put about 2000 miles a year on my 2001 GMC 2500 2 wheel drive work truck. It lives indoors and will last decades with that amount of use. It has the 6 liter gas and pulls fine. I may only top the hills pulling a load at 55-60mph but does it really matter? At 2000 miles per year I really don't car that much about fuel costs. I average about 20,000 miles per year on my daily driver car. Cheap to operate, cheap to maintain, cheap to replace.

I just laugh when I see new 3/4 and 1 ton diesel pickups going for $60,000 and up. They are obviously selling them but it won't be to me.
 
(quoted from post at 15:52:05 11/18/15)
Back in 97 I was looking to purchase a new pu. I was looking at a new F350 xl which is plain jane and 7.3 diesel. While bargaining for it the salesman said he could put me in a F250 xlt 4wd 7.5 gas(460) for less than the xl. After dickering with the guy about the f350 I kinda used it to get a better deal on the xlt. Well,17 years later I've still got the xlt and it's been solid as an anvil. Although the gas mileage is bad at 13 hwy empty, it'll pull when I want to and haul when needed. I guess I'll hang on to it for a while cause I don't need a $45k newer truck. I have an older explorer to beat around in and when I need to tow/haul something the 460 is there. It's so dependable it seems unreal as I haven't touched the engine except for normal maintenance. Fyi it's only got 106k miles.
Click to expand...
 
Blowing smoke is cool. The young guys
around here all have diesels too. Easy to
make run good. My son has 4 including a
diesel Excersion. All 7.3. And one 5.9 92
Dodge. The 96 he drives the bedside is 5
ft high. Whistles even idling. F350 crew
cab. Even I have a 91 Dodge Cummins, to
run around in. But do they make sense? NO!
Of course not. I have a 6.2 gas F250 crew
cab. To pull trailers and travel. Stay
away from 6.0 to 6.4 Ford Diesels.
 
I hope you read all the comments most of them say buy gas an they are right for your use I will never own another diesel the up
keep on diesel is higher an fuel higher just my 2 cents worth from experience of owning both
 
I looked at all of my customers, and the vehicles they drive, along with the comments made on the vehicles, and came to one conclusion. If you want a good truck, buy an older one, with a gas engine. The further back you go, the better off you are as far as simplicity of repair goes. yes, you might sacrifice some of the luxury in the ride department, as an old truck will 'ride like a truck' but the rest can be easily overcome. Power steering now is not really any different than it was years ago, and A/C can be put on anything. Electric windows are nice, but manual windows are less prone to break. If you've got A/C, the windows aren't going to be used much anyways, so it's a minor thing anyways.

Personally I say buy an older, gas truck. Fix it up like you want it, and you'll enjoy it just as much, if not more, than you would a newer one
 
Not against diesel trucks I own 1 it works and pays its
way it also has 1.2 million miles own it , this is a 98
dodge 3500 . If you will put 100,000 a year own it buy a
diesel when it get to 900k use it for a second or backup
in case you need it . If this pickup is never going to
make money buy gas , the best I had was a 89' Chevy with a
454 that I put several dollars into and it got 4-9 gpm
pulling a load but would out pull most trucks when I
bought my dodge in 98' , I never checked mileage empty
because I thought it a waste to drive it for fun and
didn't.
 
Bingo!
That is why I drive a 35 year old 1 ton! When I first put it on the road I spent more on a set of tires than I did for the purchase of the entire pickup. Spent well under a grand on new clutch, brake hoses, U-joints, exhaust, fluids, etc... while bringing it back to life. It just goes....and goes....and goes... Frankly, there's just not much to go wrong with it.

And like Kub6040 commented, It only goes if it's pulling something or hauling something. I may drive it 5 times one week and then it may sit for 3 weeks.
 
The reason you don't like the replies is that you are getting mature advice, and rolling coal is neither mature nor smart.

That being said, my '94 12 valve Cummins with 300,000 miles is a bargain. Mine has never had any engine work since a new injector pump at 40,000. If you can find a 12 valve Cummins from a city owner it has never hauled a load (maybe a few miles with a travel trailer), never been on rough roads or off road and never been stuck (I mean really stuck) and will have lots of miles left in it. I prefer automatics, they were de-tuned from the factory so they naturally last longer. Your statement of making modifications for more power is, however, totally senseless and only for rich guys that have money to burn. You "enjoy" more power then you really enjoy more engine work after you spin a bearing or throw a rod. Good 12 valve Cummins are still available pretty cheap but not for too many more years.
 
(quoted from post at 17:54:41 11/18/15)
(quoted from post at 13:34:41 11/18/15) Your already not making enough sense . Using the word you used " enjoy" you say you want to enjoy the luxury of a new truck or enjoy the simplicity of a truck with 150,000 miles. I think you would enjoy a new truck because of the annoying factor of used. I get a discount on parts is not a good enough reason to get a huge diesel. Picture yourself driving and using the truck or working on and dumping money into it.
Click to expand...

correct, new truck luxury would be nice but i also enjoy the simplicity and ability to work on older rigs as well so for me its a toss up and not really a deal breaker either way
Click to expand...

You aren't going to buy a new truck for 20K. Looking at a 3/4-1 ton diesel with any kind of "luxury" puts you up in the 40-70K range. Gas or diesel, it's the same.
 
(quoted from post at 06:31:38 11/19/15)
(quoted from post at 17:54:41 11/18/15)
(quoted from post at 13:34:41 11/18/15) Your already not making enough sense . Using the word you used " enjoy" you say you want to enjoy the luxury of a new truck or enjoy the simplicity of a truck with 150,000 miles. I think you would enjoy a new truck because of the annoying factor of used. I get a discount on parts is not a good enough reason to get a huge diesel. Picture yourself driving and using the truck or working on and dumping money into it.
Click to expand...

correct, new truck luxury would be nice but i also enjoy the simplicity and ability to work on older rigs as well so for me its a toss up and not really a deal breaker either way
Click to expand...

You aren't going to buy a new truck for 20K. Looking at a 3/4-1 ton diesel with any kind of "luxury" puts you up in the 40-70K range. Gas or diesel, it's the same.
Click to expand...

Nor would I want a new truck, 07 is the newest I would want and is ironically the newest I can afford
 

I have a small gas pickup for running chores. Availible everywhere down south for cheap.. Nicely equiped and quiet trucks are availible everywhere. BUT!!!! I also have a dually for pulling gooseneck trailers and it gets used 2 to 3 times a month. I pull a 38 foot trailer that weights 7500 lbs empty and usually it weighs between 16000 lbs to 30,000 lbs when loaded everytime it gets used. My 2002 dodge cummins would no longer pull the loads very well as it was fuel controlled to around 14000 lbs even with a tow chip, so I shopped around and found... 2013 ford 350 dually crewcab, 800 lbs of torque, 500 hp with 15000 miles on it for around $30,000. After selling my dodge, I got into the new vehicle for around 18k. It pulls the loads I have to move easily. A gas engine WOULD NOT pull these types of loads. But then I have a gas truck for the small daily stuff.. I hopping for another 15 years out of this one.
 
(quoted from post at 10:54:35 11/19/15)
(quoted from post at 06:31:38 11/19/15)
(quoted from post at 17:54:41 11/18/15)
(quoted from post at 13:34:41 11/18/15) Your already not making enough sense . Using the word you used " enjoy" you say you want to enjoy the luxury of a new truck or enjoy the simplicity of a truck with 150,000 miles. I think you would enjoy a new truck because of the annoying factor of used. I get a discount on parts is not a good enough reason to get a huge diesel. Picture yourself driving and using the truck or working on and dumping money into it.
Click to expand...

correct, new truck luxury would be nice but i also enjoy the simplicity and ability to work on older rigs as well so for me its a toss up and not really a deal breaker either way
Click to expand...

You aren't going to buy a new truck for 20K. Looking at a 3/4-1 ton diesel with any kind of "luxury" puts you up in the 40-70K range. Gas or diesel, it's the same.
Click to expand...

Nor would I want a new truck, 07 is the newest I would want and is ironically the newest I can afford
Click to expand...


I misunderstood what you were saying. My bad.

FWIW, I bought a CC F350 gas, 4wd. $4k. I haven't put anything in it in 2 years outside of plugs and wires this last week. In your case, $16K will do an awful, awful lot of u
 
(quoted from post at 10:54:35 11/19/15)
(quoted from post at 06:31:38 11/19/15)
(quoted from post at 17:54:41 11/18/15)
(quoted from post at 13:34:41 11/18/15) Your already not making enough sense . Using the word you used " enjoy" you say you want to enjoy the luxury of a new truck or enjoy the simplicity of a truck with 150,000 miles. I think you would enjoy a new truck because of the annoying factor of used. I get a discount on parts is not a good enough reason to get a huge diesel. Picture yourself driving and using the truck or working on and dumping money into it.
Click to expand...

correct, new truck luxury would be nice but i also enjoy the simplicity and ability to work on older rigs as well so for me its a toss up and not really a deal breaker either way
Click to expand...

You aren't going to buy a new truck for 20K. Looking at a 3/4-1 ton diesel with any kind of "luxury" puts you up in the 40-70K range. Gas or diesel, it's the same.
Click to expand...

Nor would I want a new truck, 07 is the newest I would want and is ironically the newest I can afford
Click to expand...


I misunderstood what you were saying. My bad.

FWIW, I bought a CC F350 gas, 4wd. $4k. I haven't put anything in it in 2 years outside of plugs and wires this last week. In your case, $16K will do an awful, awful lot of upgrading or repair to a truck like that.
 
(quoted from post at 10:40:41 11/19/15)
I have a small gas pickup for running chores. Available everywhere down south for cheap.. Nicely equipped and quiet trucks are available everywhere. BUT!!!! I also have a dually for pulling goose neck trailers and it gets used 2 to 3 times a month. I pull a 38 foot trailer that weights 7500 lbs empty and usually it weighs between 16000 lbs to 30,000 lbs when loaded everytime it gets used. My 2002 dodge cummins would no longer pull the loads very well as it was fuel controlled to around 14000 lbs even with a tow chip, so I shopped around and found... 2013 ford 350 dually crewcab, 800 lbs of torque, 500 hp with 15,000 miles on it for around $30,000. After selling my dodge, I got into the new vehicle for around 18k. It pulls the loads I have to move easily. A gas engine WOULD NOT pull these types of loads. But then I have a gas truck for the small daily stuff.. I hopping for another 15 years out of this one.
Click to expand...

Forgot to say the truck is also 4x4 package or something like that that I really didnt need, but point is...


that a this truck is rated to pull 23000 lbs on the goose neck hitch all day from the factory. A gas truck is no where near that. So if your pulling rarely or small loads, it makes no sense to have a diesel. It also makes no sense to drive a heavy duty truck around to pick up dog food or groceries. If you pull extremely big loads, it make no sense to have a gas or make two trips.

The HD Dodge cost me $5000 to own for 10 years after selling it using buy price over sell price. I probably will not do quite as good with the newer one, but the trailers have gotten bigger and the loads have gotten heavier. I try to shy away from 4x4 because, with a load that heavy on the truck, mud is one thing I stay away from. However the low range will be a blessing in the hay fields.
 
You might be surprised. I just hauled 330
bu. Of Milo to the elevator with a 16-
f250 6.2 gas. Topped the one hill the same
speed as a 2000 7.3 with a chip. Grossing
over 30000.
.
 
(quoted from post at 05:51:50 11/19/15) The reason you don't like the replies is that you are getting mature advice, and rolling coal is neither mature nor smart.

That being said, my '94 12 valve Cummins with 300,000 miles is a bargain. Mine has never had any engine work since a new injector pump at 40,000. If you can find a 12 valve Cummins from a city owner it has never hauled a load (maybe a few miles with a travel trailer), never been on rough roads or off road and never been stuck (I mean really stuck) and will have lots of miles left in it. I prefer automatics, they were de-tuned from the factory so they naturally last longer. Your statement of making modifications for more power is, however, totally senseless and only for rich guys that have money to burn. You "enjoy" more power then you really enjoy more engine work after you spin a bearing or throw a rod. Good 12 valve Cummins are still available pretty cheap but not for too many more years.
Click to expand...


not sure where you came up with rolling coal, but i never mentioned it, sure a light haze at low rpms is okay but any truck that pours black smoke has a driver for an idiot and is also been poorly tuned most likely by an out of the box plug in tuner. i take pride in how my machines run and belching black smoke is not tuned well on a street truck, drag only or pulling trucks i can understand the smoke.
 
Wait until after the first of the year or a little longer and 2015 model gas trucks will be marked down a lot. I bought a new 2014 this past spring at a very good price.
 
Didn't mean to offend you. I erroneously assumed you wanted a diesel to make smoke. These days diesels are just not that good of a deal except for heavy pulling, but lots of young guys want them.
 
(quoted from post at 15:40:56 11/19/15)
(quoted from post at 10:40:41 11/19/15)
I have a small gas pickup for running chores. Available everywhere down south for cheap.. Nicely equipped and quiet trucks are available everywhere. BUT!!!! I also have a dually for pulling goose neck trailers and it gets used 2 to 3 times a month. I pull a 38 foot trailer that weights 7500 lbs empty and usually it weighs between 16000 lbs to 30,000 lbs when loaded everytime it gets used. My 2002 dodge cummins would no longer pull the loads very well as it was fuel controlled to around 14000 lbs even with a tow chip, so I shopped around and found... 2013 ford 350 dually crewcab, 800 lbs of torque, 500 hp with 15,000 miles on it for around $30,000. After selling my dodge, I got into the new vehicle for around 18k. It pulls the loads I have to move easily. A gas engine WOULD NOT pull these types of loads. But then I have a gas truck for the small daily stuff.. I hopping for another 15 years out of this one.
Click to expand...

Forgot to say the truck is also 4x4 package or something like that that I really didnt need, but point is...


that a this truck is rated to pull 23000 lbs on the goose neck hitch all day from the factory. A gas truck is no where near that. So if your pulling rarely or small loads, it makes no sense to have a diesel. It also makes no sense to drive a heavy duty truck around to pick up dog food or groceries. If you pull extremely big loads, it make no sense to have a gas or make two trips.

The HD Dodge cost me $5000 to own for 10 years after selling it using buy price over sell price. I probably will not do quite as good with the newer one, but the trailers have gotten bigger and the loads have gotten heavier. I try to shy away from 4x4 because, with a load that heavy on the truck, mud is one thing I stay away from. However the low range will be a blessing in the hay fields.
Click to expand...

The tow rating has nothing to do with the engine or transmission and everything with stopping power! I can pull 23k with a 5 HP Briggs and enough gearing. Doesn't matter what you can pull it matters what you can stop!

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 18:28:28 11/21/15) Didn't mean to offend you. I erroneously assumed you wanted a diesel to make smoke. These days diesels are just not that good of a deal except for heavy pulling, but lots of young guys want them.
Click to expand...

No problem here :D
 
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