Tractor oils.

John Allicaseover · Nov 15, 2015

I have a bunch of tractors, 2 case VAC, a John Deere A, Oliver 70, Allis WC and CA, and I always change all the fluids, wash them, grease them etc etc. So I was talking to another tractor loving buddy of mine and I was telling him about this and he asked me what zinc additive I was using in my oil. I said zinc additive? He said the cam will wipe out if there isn't zinc additive in the oil because in 2009 or whenever the zinc was taken out of oil and all the new motor oil out there doesn't have it. Is this true? Do you have to add zinc to the motor oils or it will destroy the motors?
What kind of oil does anyone run in the motors of the old tractors? Any help is appreciated. Thanks. Don't want to wreck a motor..

Animal · Nov 15, 2015

I think your friend is full of prunes! If modern oils were that poor we would all be walking. I run modern oil in all my tractors, antiques included with out any problems. I would like to know how he thinks you can flatten a cam in motors that turn such a low rpm?

rrlund · Nov 15, 2015

Same here. Never heard of such a thing. Must be something that the friend read on the internet. lol

Formerly PaMike · Nov 15, 2015

I did hear that diesel oil does have zinc in it, but many of the other oils have the zinc removed.
A small engine guy that I bought my zero turn from suggested to run 15w40 in the engine because a lot of small engines had their cams wiped out with traditional oil.
Don't know if its true or not, but that's what he told me...

John Allicaseover · Nov 15, 2015

Haha. He says flat tappet motors have to have zinc or they wear the lobes off the cams. Apparently the zinc builds up on these surfaces and over time wears off when not using the additive or oil with zinc in it. He said he has seen many motors go this way but my Chevelle and Monte Carlo and all my other old cars and trucks never have a problem... I did however quickly change the oil in the tractors after he told me that just in case it was a fact but I've never heard of such a thing and it's $10-$20 a bottle for the zinc making the oil change even more expensive. Actually the Lucas zinc additive I got says on the bottle for engine break in not for use in every flat tappet motor ever because the new oils suck. He said an engine will blow within 4000 miles if this is not used. Usually this guy knows what he's talking about is why I was so worried about it and figured I'd ask you guys to see what's up. So what kind of oil do you guys run in the tractors? Anything special or SAE 30? Detergent or non detergent? Thanks again.

Jason1Pa · Nov 15, 2015

This is true especially on a start up on a brand new engine. Its the cams and flat faced lifters. If you go on any old car sites or read their magazines there are several different companies producing oil just for old vehicles and race engines with higher levels of zinc. Just Google it there is tons of stuff out there about this topic. If you were to purchase a cam say from Summit racing or any other manufacture they have a warning label right on the packaging to use a zinc additive. I personally use the Lucas zinc additive on all my stuff that is old. I can find it at NAPA or Advanced Auto. However Do NOT use this in a vehicle that has a catalytic converter or other emission control engines. It will distroy them

Bob Harvey · Nov 15, 2015

It seems to me that your 'pal' don't know beans from (insert appropriate alternate). Modern oils are pretty darned good. MANY use 15-40 Rotella (or equivalent) for all it's wonderful properties. Your call. HTH

Andy Martin · Nov 15, 2015

(quoted from post at 17:22:54 11/15/15) So what kind of oil do you guys run in the tractors? Anything special or SAE 30? Detergent or non detergent? Thanks again.

I use multi-weight detergent oil in letter series Farmalls. I put detergent oil in old engines which may have never had detergent and have never had a problem. Detergent oil keeps solids suspended, does not wash them off the walls.

rrlund · Nov 15, 2015

I'll have to ask my son. He builds high performance race engines for a living. From what PaMike says,maybe that diesel oil thing is what saves me. I run synthetic blend 10w30 diesel oil in everything,gas and diesel. Cuts down on confusion. I've got a 1951 gas tractor that I use seven days a week/365 to feed cattle. I overhauled it about 1996,but it still starts and runs like new every day.

IanC · Nov 15, 2015

The additive is / was ZDDP (zinc dithiophosphate). It was removed from oil because it effects the emissions equipment of current diesel engines (most tier 3, and all tier 4). According to the API (off their WEB site, OH NO www.api.org) the new non ZDDP oils are backwards compatible, but you may have to modify your drain intervals. The zinc loss effects flat tappet engines which means almost all older tractor engines. We have seen camshaft failures, but they were in over the road trucks. The ZDDP is available in the aftermarket. Parade tractors MAY not need it, but if it is a working tractor I would spend the money on a oil that still has it such as CENPECO, they still make a Series III oil (old spec CI-4 or older), as well as one that is compliant with the new "CJ" spec.

Jason1Pa · Nov 15, 2015

I just picked up a new Lucas zinc bottle the other day and it now says on there to use on every oil change. I never heard of this either until the guy that does my machine work on engines told me about it. On a new engine during break in it is important. Like I said in the other post cam companies are warning you left and right. How come people haven't seen any damaged engine yet? Well probably just hasnt been enough time. Many of these tractors have lasted several decades before a overhaul. Try that again with newer oils and the life of thst engine could be cut in half

Mike M · Nov 15, 2015

Rotella T 15-40 is still to have it in.

John Allicaseover · Nov 15, 2015

Thanks for all the helpful insight. Looks like I will keep putting the additive in. I was using a yellow bottle Risolene but switched to Lucas. Also add a little Marvel Mystery oil to them too. I use Wolfs Head SAE 30 in them for the summer when I had been mowing and stuff. Was thinking of using a 10w30 for the winter/fall.

rusty6 · Nov 15, 2015

I've never used any additive in the motor oils for my old engines from the 70s right back through the 50s. No worn out cam shafts that I know of. Everything from 10w-30 to straight 30 to 15w40. Cars, trucks, combines, all doing fine on today's oil.

IanC · Nov 15, 2015

Read the label, it it says it meets API classification CJ-4 it CANNOT have the zinc in it. The label may have other classifications listed as well but if it says CJ anything there is no zinc in it.

David G · Nov 15, 2015

First question is how many hours a year do you run these?

We run a lot of hours on tractors with 15W-40 Delvac 1300.

JayinNY · Nov 15, 2015

This topic is so funny, people are always worried about what oil is best. I have a exmark lazer z lawn mower, it has a kohler 27 hp engine, I run 10-30 oil in it, it also has a hydro pump leak, the mower has a sticker on it to only use Mobil 1 synthetic 15-40 oil in the hydro system. Them i find out 2 years ago 8 years ago exmark must have had a falling out with mobil, so now you have to use exmark oil, Well I been running 15-40 Diesel engine oil in it for about 6 years now, as iv been 2 lazy to put the new hydro pump in. As far as the engine goes, there's times iv mixed 15-40 in with the 10-30. I have neve seen an engine failure do to the oil being used, I seen them fail with low oil, but that's not the oils fault. I gonna try something new pretty soon, my f150 has a power steering leak, iv been useing tranny fluid in it as I had a bunch of free quarts, next I'm gonna just put used enging oil in it, as im not going to fix that either! Lol

John Allicaseover · Nov 15, 2015

Well, I run them 20-30 hours a week. We have an exmark zero turn that leaks out of the top seal on the motor when the bearing goes and the hyd pump leaks and we put drain oil in both! Things shot but still works. I just ask about oil in tractor because I just started fooling with them. I work on cars for a living and in instances the oil viscosity does matter like cars with hyd timing chain tensioners and stuff like that. BMW calls for castrol or whatever car rolls in saying use shell gas only is just ridiculous. In all the manuals I have they say run SAE10 SAE20 SAE30 and around here the only one I can find is SAE30. I DID however find in my uncles barn that passed away 5 old Wolfs head oils in the metal cans from the 50s I'm assuming still full with the factory seals on them I was planning on using on my tractors.

JayinNY · Nov 15, 2015

Wow! From the 50! Neat, iv got those metal top cardboard cans of I think it's sears spectrum, and valvoline. My dad had a metal spout you punctured the can with to pour it in the engine. Iv got my friend on my lap so I can't go look at my old cans of oil. Lol

David G · Nov 15, 2015

I can only give my opinion, but do not believe zinc needs to be added.

jimg.allentown · Nov 15, 2015

Just a thought for the power steering leak - put about 1/2 cup of brake fluid in the pump. That will usually fix any leaking seals. Won't fix a leaking line, though. I wouldn't put used engine oil into it, though. That might be too abrasive - and it will probably foam and make a lot of noise.

JayinNY · Nov 15, 2015

Thanks for the tip, I will give that a try.

Determined · Nov 15, 2015

(quoted from post at 20:36:02 11/15/15) I gonna try something new pretty soon, my f150 has a power steering leak, iv been useing tranny fluid in it as I had a bunch of free quarts, next I'm gonna just put used enging oil in it, as im not going to fix that either! Lol

JayinNY If your power steering leak is from the shaft seal, ATF will work and will continue to leak.
Countless times primarily on Ford products and most often during cold weather if you fill it up with the proper fluid the leak often will stop completely.
Don't ask me why it stops leaking but I have seen it work again and again.

.

Sprint 6 · Nov 15, 2015

DO NOT PUT BRAKE FLUID IN YOUR POWER STEERING! Unless you want it to not work at all. It will swell all rubber seals in the system to three times their size. I have seen people try this with automatic transmissions, it takes a working but leaky trans to a non working trans in about 20 miles.

VicS · Nov 15, 2015

Sounds like lead additives a few years ago. If we didn't use them our valves would wear out!

DeltaRed · Nov 15, 2015

I've used the 'same' fleet diesel oil in all my engines for 40 years. Never had a problem.All,as in gas/diesel tractors;combines;cars;pickups/trucks;motorcycles;ATVs;lawnmoweres......one oil for all engines.Simpler that way.No mix ups.

DR. EVIL · Nov 16, 2015

Actually the removal of ZDDP from motor oil is OLD NEWS, 10+ years ago it was written up in HOT ROD magazine. RPM of the engine has absolutely NOTHING to do with cam wear due to no ZDDP. But valve spring pressure has EVERYTHING to do with it. High lift cams with cooresponding stiff springs have lot's of pressure between solid or hydraulic flat lifters and cam lobes. Rocker arm ratios even effect pressure.

Roller cams and roller rocker arms have no skidding wear surfaces so are immune from wear caused by NO ZDDP. My old 7.3L PSD engine in my '96 F-250 has roller cam followers & roller rockers from the factory so it's never needed much if any ZDDP. Engines with flat tappets like old tractor engines and small air cooled engines typically have soft valve springs and low ratio rocker arms for low wear pressure on cam lobes so lack of ZDDP doesn't really effect them much either.

The conventional 15W-40 ROTELLA T a in the white jug still has 1200 ppm of ZDDP according to Shell's answer man as of 2-3 years ago. Plenty of ZDDP to provide protection from wearing cam lobes flat in ANY engine. Even high lift cams in small block race engines running 10,000 RPM with dual & triple valve springs with 1000+# valve open spring pressure.

The failure mode has ALWAYS been a rather slow wearing away of cam lobes which causes the engine to misfire like it's out of tune. Engines suffering from no ZDDP have never blown up like thrown rods, spun bearings, etc. Some engines have been more sensitive to flat spotting cams than others, and certain vintage engines worse than others.

dhermesc · Nov 16, 2015

This.

The zinc is primarily needed in break in old flat tappet engines with heavy duty valve springs found on high performance engines to prevent the valves from "floating" at high RPMs. Not what you find on low RPM engines that were designed in the days of nondetergent oils.

Andy Martin · Nov 16, 2015

(quoted from post at 18:50:42 11/15/15) Well, I run them 20-30 hours a week. We have an exmark zero turn that leaks out of the top seal on the motor when the bearing goes and the hyd pump leaks and we put drain oil in both! Things shot but still works. I just ask about oil in tractor because I just started fooling with them. I work on cars for a living and in instances the oil viscosity does matter like cars with hyd timing chain tensioners and stuff like that. BMW calls for castrol or whatever car rolls in saying use shell gas only is just ridiculous. In all the manuals I have they say run SAE10 SAE20 SAE30 and around here the only one I can find is SAE30. I DID however find in my uncles barn that passed away 5 old Wolfs head oils in the metal cans from the 50s I'm assuming still full with the factory seals on them I was planning on using on my tractors.

Well the tractors were designed to run on API SA oil, and we are far beyond that with any cheap oil you can buy other than designated non-detergent. I'd keep antique oil for antique value and use Rotella. Remember when the manuals were written multi-viscosity oil did not exist. Oil that acts like 15w when cold and 40 wt when hot is just fine.

w1ebb · Nov 16, 2015

I've been using Castrol GTX in my 1996 Chevrolet Z71 since it was new.Very satisfied with Castrol products.

w1ebb · Nov 16, 2015

That's supposed to be a picture of the Chevy's dash when it turned to 250,000 miles. The transmission started shifting weird about 5K miles ago, I replaced the shift solenoids, cleared codes with IBD2, and she runs great!

Scott

TomA in CA · Nov 16, 2015

It is my understanding that the oils labeled LE (for low emission) no longer contain zinc and are for use in the new engines. I use Traveler Diesel engine oil from TSC I believe it still contains zinc.

Gary Mitchell · Nov 16, 2015

None of my "fleet" run any hours to amount to anything. I've run O'Rielly 30 wgt oil in all of them for years with no problem. gm

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