Sticker Shock !

BANDITFARMER

Well-known Member
Today was a slow day from all the rain we got so I went with mom and dad to take there van in for a second recall for the same problem. We got there they took it in to inspect it and do there thing to it. Mom and dad waited in the waiting room so I being bored figured I would walk out on the lot and look at all the pretty new Fords sitting there. I saw 6 new Mustangs sitting there and seen they were Rouch Racing Mustangs, Really good looking Mustangs I must say. I noticed a sticker and the side window $32.000 well that's not to bad, Then I looked at the sticker on the windshield and liked to fell over. $69.970 for this new Rouch Mustange !!!! Somebody is nuts!!!!!

OK I'll walk over and look at the new trucks to calm down and get an idea of what I might like to have, My old truck is getting old and it maybe time for a new one. New F-350 4x2 Extend cab dually pickup diesel auto looked like cloth seats a lot of goodies I can see and looked at the sticker.......$72.920 !!!!! The cheapest truck was sitting next to it New F250 4x2 gas reg cab stripped down model $46.000 for s stripped down 2 wheel drive truck no way they are out of there minds if they think I am going to pay more for a new truck than I gave for my first house!!!! I figured I had had all I could take and walked back inside and sat with mom and dad telling them about the price of these new cars and trucks, They didn't believe me so they came out to look for themselves. Mom and dad looked and said they could not believe the prices on the car's and trucks they had. I think they were more shocked than I was. I know stuff cost more now but to me now my old truck looks pretty good right now and a few buck's hear and there to fix her up is looking better everyday. No way I will ever spend that kind of money for a new truck, No way no how!!!! Bandit
 
Bought my first new Ford pickup in 1974.

Two wheel drive, F-150, power steering, A/C, Automatic, real pretty truck with stripes over the wheel wells, two tone red and white paint job, real sharp.

$3,460.00

Two years we bought a 77 F-150 4X4, Automatic, but with no air. Farm Truck. Right at $4,200.

But back then, all the seats were manual, crank up windows, AM radio.

All these new toys and gadgets they put in those packages all add up.

Gene
 
(quoted from post at 18:26:35 10/29/15) Today was a slow day from all the rain we got so I went with mom and dad to take there van in for a second recall for the same problem. We got there they took it in to inspect it and do there thing to it. Mom and dad waited in the waiting room so I being bored figured I would walk out on the lot and look at all the pretty new Fords sitting there. I saw 6 new Mustangs sitting there and seen they were Rouch Racing Mustangs, Really good looking Mustangs I must say. I noticed a sticker and the side window $32.000 well that's not to bad, Then I looked at the sticker on the windshield and liked to fell over. $69.970 for this new Rouch Mustange !!!! Somebody is nuts!!!!!

OK I'll walk over and look at the new trucks to calm down and get an idea of what I might like to have, My old truck is getting old and it maybe time for a new one. New F-350 4x2 Extend cab dually pickup diesel auto looked like cloth seats a lot of goodies I can see and looked at the sticker.......$72.920 !!!!! The cheapest truck was sitting next to it New F250 4x2 gas reg cab stripped down model $46.000 for s stripped down 2 wheel drive truck no way they are out of there minds if they think I am going to pay more for a new truck than I gave for my first house!!!! I figured I had had all I could take and walked back inside and sat with mom and dad telling them about the price of these new cars and trucks, They didn't believe me so they came out to look for themselves. Mom and dad looked and said they could not believe the prices on the car's and trucks they had. I think they were more shocked than I was. I know stuff cost more now but to me now my old truck looks pretty good right now and a few buck's hear and there to fix her up is looking better everyday. No way I will ever spend that kind of money for a new truck, No way no how!!!! Bandit

Somebody has got to pay for all those union pensions.....
 

Yep . War Dept needs a new ride so we have been looking and looking . I can tell you this around here new cars are not selling . Case in point here , last year on Dec. 26th my youngest daughter was going to buy a new 2015 Chrysler 200 at a dealership that and old Friend works at .(he and i started working together back in june of 68 at the same dealership he was a new salesman and i was wrenchen . We are both the same age) back then i helped him really get a good start as all my friends would go to him and buy there new Road Runner or GTX off Denny ). So Beth and i go over there and she knows exactly what she wants and what color . They had the car and we started dealing after (now get this ) aster eight and a half hours of the boy's in the back got done playing games with numbers and after signing four different deals because they made a mistake we left with her new car , half the distance from the dealer ship they call her and said they had made a mistake once again and she would have to return and resign papers once again . SOO we trun around and drive back [pulls up to the ft. door walks in and hands them the keys back and said BYE . That was Dec. 26th 2014 , today is Oct. 29 2015 and that vary car is still setting on the lot. along with ALL the 200's that were there then . They even have 2014's still sitting on the lots around here . I saw a Jeep Charokee at a dealers lot and the sticker on it was over 78 grand for a stinking JEEP . They have priced them selfs out of the normal people buying a new car . And as for a new truck i'll be dammed if i am going to pay more for a lousy pick up- one ton then i paid for a semi and trailer that went out everyday and made a living off of .
 
A friend of mine bought a new chevy one ton dually, four wheel drive, diesel, crew cab four door. $74,000. That's the most I've heard of anyone around here paying for a pickup.
 
The tractor vet- A few months ago, I remember reading an article about only 1/3 of Americans can really afford to buy a new car. I'll try to find it...
 
Grand son was in my 05 F150. He wanted to know where the window switch was. I guess he had never seen a window crank before. Stan
 
(quoted from post at 22:25:21 10/29/15) eldon (wa) has it exactly correct.
f gov keeps printing, soon it will take a wheel barrow full of money for a loaf of bread. A borrowing govt needs low interest & cheap (devalued) dollars to keep the scheme going.
 
51% of US workers now earn less than $30,000 per year so it is a cinch they won't be buying any new vehicles, add them to the 40% of Americans of working age who are not working or job hunting and it makes you wonder who is left to buy anything. The bi-partisan association of American chambers of commerce estimates that for every 100,000 additional ''new immigrants'' and ''guest workers'', (illegal aliens) real wages in the USA fall by .37% on average, when you do the math the picture ain't pretty.
 
Actually Eldon, I'm not going against what you say, but
I've been pretty close to GM's plants my whole life,
studied manufacturing at GM for a year, and know
NUMEROUS current GM employees and Retirees. The ones
that are now retired are the ones that had the perks.
Things really dropped off for the workers when the
Government wasted our money on them. The buyouts and lay
offs when the economy tanked were the end of the good
times. Don't get me wrong, there is a lot of supervisors
and all them that still make huge money, not so much for
the regular laborers anymore. $15-16 hr for quite a few.
When I was there, I believe they said a Pontiac Grand Am
could be built for around $3500. List on them at that
time was around 15-20,000 (2004?), I watched the last
one roll off the line at the Lansing Car Assy plant,
before Olds and Pontiac were axed and the near 100 year
old plant was torn down.

Ross
 
You don't have to convince me on that I know that and only half of that 1/3rd can really afford one . Back in 95 one of the dealers i know told me back then that pick up would end up over seventy grand . At the time i was thinking about a new F350 Ford one ton four by four cab and Chassis as he had about a dozen on the lot and was willing to let me have my pick for five hundred over factory billing invoice as that still left him with hold back and depending on what bank i delt with how much kick back . So back then i was looking at around 16-17 grand for a new truck. Sticker was between 23-25 and change . I did not do it and kept on running my 88 for two more years and then bought a used Dodge diesel . Yep still have the 95 and i will keep on fixen it as needed till the day i die then the War Dept can call in a back hoe set me in the seat and plant me and the goat together.
 
It's sad. I know things are screwed up but WOW! Back in 1978 79 still in high school I was making $2.25 an hour and was glad to have it. My best friends dad worked at the Chevy Norwood Camaro plant at shutdown and he was a union man till the end. He always complained he was over worked and never paid enough and just complained to no end. One day I had herd enough and went off on him and asked JUST WHAT WERE YOU DIONG AND HOW MUCH WERE YOU PAID AN HOUR! He got dead quiet for a bit then he said he was making $37.75 an hour as a pisser! Under his union contract He came to work and went into a room for them and no more than 4 times a day per man or woman for 15 to 20 min he relieved someone on the line to go to the bathroom. The rest of the time he could drink coffee read a book or news paper play cards or even sleep just as long as he was there. $37.75 an hour to do one hours worth of work under a contract by the union and the other 7 hours a day was screw off time and he COMPLAINED about it!!!! I went off and I do mean OFF on him and told him off but good! Me and my friend busting our butts everyday just to make what we could and being thank full we could get what we got a week. After my melt down on him he changed his ways around me and his boy and never herd him complain again.

$37.75 an hour in 1979 to be a pisser under a union contract OH let's not forget about overtime he got paid double time! I know why this country is so screwed up now and have known for years. I could never figure how he owned so many new cars a year till I had my melt down then it was clear how he did it. I could not even think of making $1500 to $2000 a week for working a job in 1979, Shoot I was lucky if I made $100 a week in 1979 and drove a $50 old beater around. But still $70.000 for a pickup now, WOW!!!!! Bandit
 
Banditfarmer- By your post, it just sounds like you are really just jealous. You are trying to compare your 'best friends' DADS (adult) income to yours (you were still in HIGH SCHOOL!).

If a wage was negotiated between adults and agreed to, what does it matter to you? (The same argument could be made for minimum wage workers...the paying wage was agreed to by both parties.

So, What is the problem?
 
Y'all speak of past vehicles my most missed are a 76' Chevy half ton 292 with a grandmaw , next was an 80' model Chevy 252 with a 3 speed on the column $1900. was the price , last was a 96' model 3500 4x4 454 automatic air power everything and 4 door to boot gave 26000 for it and man I wish I had all 3 of them back today. By the way those first 2 had nothing in them but a heater band a steering wheel .
 
The first expensive pickup I saw was in the mid 90's. Dodge 1 ton 4 door dualy diesel that had been through a custom shop. 58K!

There was a report right about the time of the bail outs on the cost of producing a car in the US in union shops. Something like 37% of the cost was labor. Another 30% were pensions. At the time the unions were admitting to the labor part but totally ignored the 30% part. Back when those deals were made the average worker died within 5 years of retiring. No they are living 20 plus year! They are saying that's what messed em up.

Rick
 
In retrospect, it seems those Union guys "negotiated" themselves right out of a job and would have put their company out of business if not for that illegal bailout. Had GM gone through a legal bankruptcy, those guys would have had to sleep in the bed they made for themselves.

My only way to protest this crap is after driving them for 40 years, I will never spend another $ for a GM product.
 
For Ford and GM it takes 30 hours to build a vehicle, total labor cost for both is $70.00. Included in that labor cost number is health care and pensions, vacation time, overtime, sick leave and benefits for retirees. So the labor cost is $2,100, or about 10%, 20-30% of the cost is materials, 50-60% of a vehicle's cost is "overhead," the factory, that builds the car, engineers, corporate structures (HR, accounting, etc.), advertising and marketing costs, and so forth.

10-20% of the cost goes towards sunk costs (engine design, chassis modeling, etc), but sometimes that is included in the "overhead" figure above, so basically you can say the factory is 40-50% of a vehicle's cost.....and 5% is profit!
 
'69 Z decked out 3,180 '74 Nova Speacial order L-11 package 2,930
72 2500 Chevy Camper Speacial 1,900 . You can not even buy a used
150'000 mile vehicle for 3 times this now and only 1/5 the quality .
You could set on the hood of that truck and not worry and the seat
belts were some one trowig there arm in front of you . People went
to the drive in in the back droped the tail gate and watched the
movie . Just like farm equip. then you needed spark , fuel , air
and you were gone in 60 seconds !
 
I bought my new Dodge 1/2 ton 2wd , V8 last June 2015 model $24,5000. plus tax. Real nice truck even has air . Didn't think the price was too bad. Who needs heated seats and heated mirrors etc. ?? load on a lot of junk , and pay more. Bruce
 
If a vehicle has an 80 thousand dollar sticker on it, it is because the manufacturer thinks they can get that much for it. Right now Ford, GM and FCA can sell every truck they build and it's simply good business to charge as much as the market will bear. Light trucks is where the majority of profits are these days, and manufacturers are taking advantage of the high demand that low fuel prices have brought.

I remember my dad complaining about high new truck prices back in the seventies, when a new vehicle sold for less than $10K. Nothing has really changed.
 
I saw a Dodge viper with a price tag over $100,000 a couple of years ago. Somebody has the money for them - just not me.
 
I purchased a new stripped down 2007 GMC work truck at the end of 2007 for $13500 out the door sales tax include. I don't need club cabs, power Windows, CD player, 4x4. BYW, 2007 was the last year for the classic body styles. Now you need a ladder to get in trucks. I'll keep this truck until the classic low riders return.
 
So it's only the Union's fault that cars are so expensive? Huh. What about the billionaire shareholders that demand a high return on their investment? What about the dealers that add an average of $1600 (more for more expensive vehicles like pickups) to the cost of a vehicle just for touching it? What about upper management who make tens or hundreds of millions a year? How about all the extra technology, safety features, and creature comforts that have been incorporated into vehicles over the last 20 years?

I've never been a union member and think unions have plenty of problems. But, I'm not stupid enough to think that unions are even half the problem with anything.
 
Is it just me, or didn't Chrysler go through a govt bailout once years ago? Somehow I do not think GM did anything that the rest would not do if they have the opportunity or were in the same boat.
 
I wont even go into the union abuse I have seen.But I don't believe the high prices are all caused because of unions.
 
I would be kind of surprised if 1/3 of Americans can afford a new car - but then again I guess a Kia Forte is a new car. I'm 48 years old and make pretty good money and my wife is a school teacher, I would never consider buying a new car - just too expensive. I bought one new car in my life - the week before I graduated from college I bought a brand new 1991 Ford Ranger XLT. I paid $9,100 for it with tax - I'll never do it again.

The last 5 2014 F150 XL pickups the company bought were all priced at 24,500, super cabs with the 5.0 engine and the 101A interior package (actually makes it a pretty nice truck). We have bought 2 2015s, one an XL just like the 2014s - $26,500 with the aluminum body. The other was a loaded up 2015 XLT 5.0 with the 101A interior with a few other options - $31,400.
 
Agreed. The unions took care of the old guys and screwed the new members and the company they worked for. 40 years ago no union would have dreamed of two tier wage scales (much less three tier like there is talk about), but the younger more productive employees are paying for the higher wages of the old lazy guys and the retirees. I've seen it with the UAW and I've seen it in the local school district with the NEA.
 
Well bandit farmer someone's been feeding you a line. I've been a UAW member most of my life and in 78 or 79 the average wage would have been about $7 or $8 an hour plus benefits. The only way it could have been any more is if he had been on piecework, and it averaged out to a little more. Been there and done that!
 
No not even in the least bit. I knew this man a good number of years before my melt down and all I ever herd from him about his "Work" was how hard he worked and how little his pay was for what he did. Now at the time I was in high school making $2.25 an hour for the work I did. MW was $2.25 at the time and that's what I and many others were making at that time and I thought $10 an hour was big money then.

Now with that said and understood, I have no problem with a man or a woman being paid a good wage for the work they do if they do good work. But in 1979 $37.75 an hour was a lot of money for anyone at that time.

Now I know I am going to make you mad hear, The Unions at that time in my mind were out of control and are one of many reasons this country is in the shape it's in now. I have no problem with Unions they can be good thing to have, But they can get out of hand with demands on wages and other things. Under his union contract his job was the relieve someone on the production line so they could use the restroom. Sounds simple right? NO. This is ware greedy people hold someone over a barrel to get more gravy. He came to work sit in a room drink coffee play cards sleep or do anything he wanted and all he had to do "Under" the contract was 4 times a day he could relieve somebody on the line And NO MORE THAN THAT. There were 35 guys (if I remember right) in that section of the plant doing this same job.

I have no problem with Unions and they did in the past do good work for the workers but it has gone the other way for nothing but greed. This is one of the reasons we are now in a "Service Economy" and unions are on a decline and manufacturing has left this country. I could go on but I wont, So lets put it this way I am not a Union Hater or a Union Lover I am right in the middle and I have no problem with someone making a good wage. Bandit
 
I call BS

1979 I was assembling transmissions at Ford in Sharonville, base rate for UAW (It was the same at all Big 3 factories back then) non-skilled hourly was about 1/4 what you're saying.

Sounds to me more like your best friends dad is one of the really bad 5% of employees that give all autoworkers a bad name.

Fred




(quoted from post at 04:47:42 10/30/15) It's sad. I know things are screwed up but WOW! Back in 1978 79 still in high school I was making $2.25 an hour and was glad to have it. My best friends dad worked at the Chevy Norwood Camaro plant at shutdown and he was a union man till the end. He always complained he was over worked and never paid enough and just complained to no end. One day I had herd enough and went off on him and asked JUST WHAT WERE YOU DIONG AND HOW MUCH WERE YOU PAID AN HOUR! He got dead quiet for a bit then he said he was making $37.75 an hour as a pisser! Under his union contract He came to work and went into a room for them and no more than 4 times a day per man or woman for 15 to 20 min he relieved someone on the line to go to the bathroom. The rest of the time he could drink coffee read a book or news paper play cards or even sleep just as long as he was there. $37.75 an hour to do one hours worth of work under a contract by the union and the other 7 hours a day was screw off time and he COMPLAINED about it!!!! I went off and I do mean OFF on him and told him off but good! Me and my friend busting our butts everyday just to make what we could and being thank full we could get what we got a week. After my melt down on him he changed his ways around me and his boy and never herd him complain again.

$37.75 an hour in 1979 to be a pisser under a union contract OH let's not forget about overtime he got paid double time! I know why this country is so screwed up now and have known for years. I could never figure how he owned so many new cars a year till I had my melt down then it was clear how he did it. I could not even think of making $1500 to $2000 a week for working a job in 1979, Shoot I was lucky if I made $100 a week in 1979 and drove a $50 old beater around. But still $70.000 for a pickup now, WOW!!!!! Bandit
 
Ah don't forget the CAFE standards that penalize the manufactures if they don't achieve the mandated average fuel economy so the truck buyer gets to pay extra to cover the losses on the 2 or 3 economy cars they need to sell to average out the truck.

Someone commented about those greedy billionaire stockholders demanding a high return on their investment. What about those greedy retirees holding stock in their IRAs or 401Ks demanding a high return so they can do greedy things like pay for medical expenses and food? What about the greedy farmers demanding to make money on their labor and investment. That comment explains the reason we're where we are, more and more people are believing it's wrong to make money on your investments or for anyone else to make money on their labor.

With the current political situation it's hard to go for long term results, the emphasis is to get as much as you can now and park it someplace it can't be taken from you ASAP, more and more I'm thinking a shoebox might be the best place for my money or maybe a safety deposit box at the bank (I could get a big one and park my pistols there too!)
 
one of the key reasons cars cost so much today is they change them too often. The tooling just for the plastic radiator fan assembly in most cars is about $250-350,000. THats just ONE part in the car/truck. Most are designed for one vehicle and many, like the new mustangs, have 3 different fan configurations so you're talking about alot of $. Especially the 1 unit that is very low volume (likely the model that Roush worked on). Of course just having Roush's name on it makes it worth 30,000 more right away (ha ha). Then add tooling $ for every other of the 1000's of parts in a car. it gets real expensive, real fast.

Then add in all the designers, testing, validation, middlemen, paperwork ect ect and its not surprising they cost so much.

on the diesels you have to add all the new emissions shtuff which is not cheap and uses more fuel and less power (hmm. more fuel = more carbon?? more polutants???)

but there are alot of folks that cannot afford new cars. I've only bought 2 new ones in my 47years. Only reason I bought the 1st one is at the time in history (2012), with rebates, it was only about $2000 more than a 4 year old used one with 60000 miles on it. No brainer. The 2nd new car was a no brainer.... ya no brains to stop me from buying it its a good car but don't need the payments. but no worries compared to my other 2 cars with 208 and 218000 miles on them (LH Chryslers)

lots of used cars out there with 150-200000 miles and they still want a small fortune for them.
 
That is absolutly not the correct rate for any TRADE in 1978-79. If you think that guy made 37.75 back then you have some facts mixed up.
 
No Blackhole, as I said, 30 hours at $70, that means $70.00 phw for a labor cost of $2,100 average per vehicle.
 
In 03 I was looking for a new truck on a Sunday. What I had in mind was a regular cab 2wd stripped down, no frills. Found plenty at decent prices. What I ended up with was a Dodge Quad Cab with things I didn't need or want. The lesson learned is to not take my wife shopping for trucks! She wasn't sold on a truck with one seat. I tried to tell her not to go into the sales department until we found something, anywhere, any make and then go in and talk. Nope, she didn't listen to a word I said, went right in at the invitation of the salesman. They double teamed us because the poor guy trying to make the sale was definitely the lowest producer on the sales force. I saw the build date on the truck I was going to buy. They were in deep $ with it sitting on the lot longer than any other truck in stock. The final price was right where I wanted it but my wife didn't like the color of the truck! The truck we got was "the right color and right size" and came from a dealer 250 miles away at a premium price. I will not buy another vehicle, new or used, if my wife is part of the process.
 
I agree with the comments about unions getting out of hand sometimes but without unions we would have to rely on the good will of the greedy rich for a fair wage. How would that work out? Ever hear of feudalism?

As far as the pensions go, it could be like the government pensions where the pension funds were improperly used - they were supposed to be used to finance the pensions with the investments they were supposed to make with them.

But, farm income? That's a whole different kettle of fish. I believe part of the problem in the past here in Canada is the power the banks have to foreclose on a loan at any time it is in arrears. Not exactly helpful to farmers to whom nature has dealt a couple of not so good years in a row. And from following this forum recently I realize it can be more complicated than that. Especially with the government stuck into every aspect of it and changing the rules every time somebody in some department somewhere gets bored sitting around doing nothing all day except go to meetings where they sit around dreaming up "better" ideas.
 
Years ago, a Ford dealer told me he was always amused when a farmer came in and wanted an old beater car or pickup to hack around out in the fields. He wouldn't care what it looked like as long as it would do what he wanted. Then said farmer would come back with his wife and she would say, "You aren't going to buy THAT, are you?"
 
That's funny. My wife refuses to go to car lots and has no interest in talking to a salesman. Her last couple of cars and vans she told me what she wanted in terms of seating and size and then told me to go find it. Usually the first time she even saw what I was looking over was when it showed up in the garage.
 
No Sir no mix up at all. When GM closed Norwood plant he chose to retirement and he showed me the paper work that he got from GM and the Union. It stated his years with GM and a bunch of other stuff and what he made an hour and what he would be getting for retirement over his normal pay. The $37.75 an hour I know for a fact because I saw his pay stub several times. He passed about 8 or 9 years after he retired and saw even more paper work when I helped his son clean out his stuff (long story there). Bandit
 
For comparison I bought a 2015 F-350 four wheeler, gasoline, in December 14 for $32,000. Does not have fancy radio, touch control controls, or backup camera but it has A/C, electric door locks and windows. This was at a dealer that specializes in farm trucks and they don't deal, just shoot you a good price. I tried to talk to other dealers and could only get the runaround.
 
FCA just ratified their new contract and GM's is being voted on now. GM is giving $ 8,000 signing bonuses to EVERY UAW member in the first tier and 3 or 4% raises PER YEAR for the life of the contract. Health care is also unchanged. These guys pay virtually NOTHING for health care and they STILL whine about it.

Try defending THAT when people look at the price of a new car or truck. Like a few others I am one of those "greedy shareholders" who lost every share in the illegal GM bankruptcy that was supposed to help fund MY retirement. I will NEVER buy a new car touched by a UAW member. Last 2 new cars I bought were Honda and NIssan.
 

I haven't had a car payment of my own since I paid off my 91 Toyota PU. That's the last car payment I will ever have too. I have a friend that just bought another new high end pickup. Paid close to $70K for it. Stupid.
 
The CEO of IH made 460,000 in 1979. He was the highest paid CEO in the country. If you think some line worker was making 70,000 a year back then you are wrong. NO WAY.
 

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