(800) 853-2651
SHOP NOW

Probably the dumbest idea of the century, what do you think?

R

Rexkramer

Member
An idea popped into my head, I have a TD6 dozer and the starter is totally shot. I recently picked up a 706 that I'm hopefully going to finish this weekend. Anyways, why couldn't I use the pto on the 706 with an old 3 speed manual to reverse direction to spin the pto on the dozer to start it. I know all the spinning shafts are dangerous but the crawler has a hand clutch so a person would be way outta the way when starting it. It's just a thought since finding a starter has proved to be impossible so far, and pull starting it is a pain being I don't always have help and it tears up the driveway.
 
I personally wouldn't - but if you're going to try it - My first thought is - I think I'd at least put an over running clutches in there since when the TD starts, it's unlikely both ptos will be turning at the same speed - if that speed's very different and the ptos are fighting each other... I don't know. Maybe no big deal, but sounds kinda dangerous.
 
You are going to 'gear up' the dozer's trans mission by reversing the power flow through the PTO and something is gonna break. And, since the century is still relatively young, it's not likely the dumbest idea.....

Ben
 
Too bad you don't have a PTO belt pulley on the back of the dozer. I've seen a tractor started that way. Changing direction is as simple as twisting the belt. And I suppose the belt is more forgiving than a shaft.
 
I would think that as long as you get the rotation direction ok, then you will be ok so long as you keep in mind that once the D6 starts up, that its going to run at IT's RPM, and so will its engaged PTO. If the two different RPM's are not in sync with each other, you may not want to be standing near the outcome. A starter drive kicks into a flywheel and turns the engine over, then being spring loaded kicks back out so as not to damage the starter. Your idea will be doing the same in essence, turning the engine over. The difference is that a starter will disengage once the engine takes off. Will you idea with much larger, heavier pieces of equipment, and if something has to give? Someone below mentioned how they start Indy cars. You would be doing similar, but those starters have clutches for over run, and they pull them away from their mounts after started. If you can achieve that, you'll probably be fine.

Good luck, be careful.

Mark
 
You should be able to rebuild the guts of that starter. Any GOOD starter/alternator shop should be able to get something in there that will do the job.
 
I guess I just disagree with about everyone. If you feather the clutch on the TD-6 to get it started you are not keeping anything locked in and will disengage it when the TD-6 fires. If you are going through a gearbox set in reverse you are spinning the TD-6 slow and you may have to let off the clutch to actually know it is running on it's own. It won't have enough torque to damage anything at a slow speed, especially if you're starting it on gasoline. It has no torque on gasoline. My TD-14 would not even lift the blade on gasoline. I've never had a tractor that you couldn't lug down with the PTO so I don't see the issue with using the PTO to start.

That being said, if you are working it, you need to be able to get the 706 behind it to restart it if you stall it or have a failure. I have a CAT 12 motor patrol with a bad pony motor and have pull started it with an M for years. Big issue if I stall it with the blade in the ground, lot's of hand cranking on the blade lift drive to get it up where it can be pulled.

But it looks like you can get a started on eBay.

The worst idea of the century is our current president, so far.
 
Good idea but impractical. I see no danger as I have crank started a tractor with a Crescent wrench on the PTO, my bad idea but no injuries. I was drilling barley a long way from home and lost the crank.
 
Why did you bring politics into this discussion? The very worst idea of the century would be the next pres. if its another Bush.
 
Just pull start it if you have the help. Helped a guy start his D7 last year he has pull started it the last 15 years. Started easier than I that but we were using a 8630 4 wheel drive. chris
 
My dad used to have a very hard starting dozer when it was cold. He did exactly what you are talking about and it worked fine. It was many years ago and I don't remember the details, but yes it can be done.
 
Well i for one would never even think of this even in a wild dream . As for your starter it would be off and down to the guy that does my starter work . Even if it is a tough one to do it may take a day or two to get it back . If it is and easy fix grab a stool and set down and you would be out of there in less then and hour . Except Fridays as it has to be before noon or you get into his beer time then and he gets upset .
 
We used to belt up a VAC Case with an Oliver 70 all the time to get the *******Oliver started.
 
Call AES in Racine MN. If they don't have a starter for you I bet they can make one if you give them the specs needed.

Jim
 
grandpa used to wrap a rope around the big old belt pulley on his fordson-hook the team to the end of the rope and use them to pull on the rope starting the Fordson. This was when he had the fordson set at the threshing machine-He told me this-mom saw it--worked ok till one day the fordson backfired, belt pulley turned backwards dragging the horses. Mom said there was no way those horses would go near the darned old thing after that. Old Minister said he lost the crank to his model T one dark night, killed the car going up a hill, rolled it back down the hill, jacked up the rear wheel, gave it a spin, started the T, drove his gal pal on home that night. I've heard of doing just what you are going to try, according to the guy that told me it worked. I've heard of guys hooking a single cylinder gas motor to the pto and starting them. I've heard of guys using 1" impact wrenches start them. Most guys chain the blade up and pull start them when they need to. Just passin on information. If it was me I would really try to find someone to fix the starter
 
It was just a wild idea, as far as the starter in the TD, it's out of the machine. I brought it to a local place and they deemed it totally shot and there is no parts available and they couldn't locate one. So that's as far as that got, Im sure there's places that could build me a starter but that's gonna be expensive. Hard to spend $500+ on a starter for a $2000 machine. Especially when you don't use it much. And it takes 10-12 trips to get it running. Yes I had it starting on gas when I got it but it was giving me trouble and that's when the starter quit.
 
REX there are no dumb idea just some are better than others but your idea is already being used, my friend has been doing this for 30 years, and it works great
 
All this talk about starting things, makes me think, one of the coolest ways of starting anything I have heard of is the way they used to start the SR-71's, the NASA and Air Force mach 3 spy plane that nothing could shoot down. They used to start the Pratt J58 jet engines on those with ground based power carts consisting of two V-8 car engines ganged together to a commomn vertical PTO shaft. They would roll it up to the plane, connect up the shafting, fire up the V-8's, clutch 'em in and let 'er rip. NASA used two Holley-carbureted Nail-head Buick Wildcat V-8's in their starter carts and the Air Force used Chevy 427's. Why they used common car engines and not something more exotic, I dont know. Maybe they were using up too much of the budget by the time they got to the starter, so they just had to make do with whatever they could scrounge up. They might have raided the parking lot. These carts are now museum pieces. Look 'em up on Google under SR-71, you will find links and pix.
 
That starter was used on the TD6, TD9, T9, WD9 & ID9 tractors. So start looking online at tractor salvage yards.

Rick
 
It will work until you stall the dozer in some location that you cannot get the other tractor into position. Or you stall it and the creek is on the rise!
 
Another idea. . .
a204526.jpg
 
That sounds like another variation of belting two tractors together to start one, or tow starting.

Be very careful removing the PTO shaft from a running tractor.

I like the idea of an inexpensive "pony motor" attached to the PTO.
 

Instead of the power cart blowing compressed air they actually turned the turbine's compressor shaft via a gear box and pto ?
 
Another wild idea, mount a flywheel with ring gear on it on the PTO.
Make a bracket for any starter you have around and mount it to mesh
with the ring gear. This is assuming you never use the PTO. Don't
forget proper guards. I have several unique setups like this.

Areo
 

I don't see why this doesn't work.

The PTO on the 6 is transmission drive, not live. Put main box in Neutral.

You use the hand clutch to engage the engine to the trans(turning via PTO shaft driven by other tractor), once it fires, you pull the clutch back and disengage it. There is no locking up of anything, leave dozer in neutral with hand clutch disengaged, get off and shut down PTO on tractor then disconnect PTO shaft.

Same principle as coast starting a tractor, once it fires, you disengage the clutch.
 

I bought a Super 88 olie with a broken starter and the owner pull statred it for years , but i imediately had it rebuilt . Your idea might work , but i would start shopping around for a starter .

ps , those SR-71 start carts are impressive , my brother has a 65 buick riviera in storage with a 425 dual quad, nail head --lots of power in that baby.

Larry -ont .
 
"so far" is right.......I have said we cannot do any worse than what we have now, but if the female candidate that is running wins, I have a feeling we can.
 
I guess it's not a dumb as I thought it would be, I like the pony
motor setup, and the flywheel idea is good too!! I'm gonna try
it with tractor and see how it goes
 
I guess it's not a dumb as I thought it would be, I like the pony
motor setup, and the flywheel idea is good too!! I'm gonna try
it with tractor and see how it goes
 

USN A 4s used somewhat similar setup to start.It had an air turbine starter motor mounted on a long enclosed shaft.The shaft was shoved up into the bottom of the engine gear box,the start cart was started ,air applied and the J 52 started.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

A
What Do You Think of Polypay Sheep?
Replies
7
Views
1K
Dell (WA)
D
M
First Tractor: What would you pros do?: Part 2
Replies
17
Views
4K
motorv8N
M
Tractor Parts Tractor Manuals

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy

Back
Top