IH 484 D179 Timing Issue.

Very long story as short as I can make it:
-After some engine work, and an IP rebuild, my engine would only start with ether. It ran great after it was started.
-I re-checked the pump but it looked like it was in time.
-A diesel mechanic and I verified all of the timing marks on the front of the engine IP were correct so i sent the
pump to be checked and also had the injectors rebuilt.
-When I got the pump back, not only did it still need ether to start, it would only idle in the Start position
producing some white smoke. It would die when the lever was placed in the Run position.
-I had the guy who rebuilt the pump come to my house, verify the problem and in the end he gave up.
-I had a different mechanic take the pump apart and he said although the head was a bit worn, it still made good
pressure and met specs. He didn't think I'd have a problem.
-The tractor has about 1500 hours and the compression is fine.
Same question, different board.

Hi, are you very sure that the IP isn't 180 degrees out of time? My brother changed the front lip seal on his 454 IP and re-installed the IP pump 180 degrees out of time. The tractor would start and run like crap and smoke badly.

What all was done to the engine?

JimB

Just for the fun of it time, the injection pump 180 degrees on the crankshaft from where your currently at. I am willing to bet that your out of time. I have done it on two different IH tractors over the years. I would have sworn on a Bible that they where timed correctly. They would start and run with either an smoke like crazy with very little throttle control other than a slow to medium idle.

Just a rocker shaft repair years ago and related gaskets.
Today I put it all back together and drove it in the yard.
I have to start it with ether in the "Run" position.
After starting it in the Run position, and can increase the RPM's to what seems like a normal level the engine although the exhaust has some white smoke.
If I start it in the "Start" position, it will idle, although the exhaust has some white smoke, but I still cannot move the lever to run without the engine dying.
All cylinders are firing. I loosened the fuel line while running, and it affected each cylinder.
Can the IP be 180 out and work like described above?
Thanks for replies!

Hi, yes, as I said in my previous post, my brother ran his 454 with D-179 about a month like that except it would start without ether, just a lot of starter rolling.

It is very easy to try, just remove IP timing cover and mark the timing gear hub to gear position, determine the proper rotation of the IP and remove the three bolts out of the timing gear hub and put a wrench on the the big nut on IP drive shaft and rotate the IP drive shaft 1 revolution in direction of IP rotation, realign your previous marks and reinstall the three bolts in the hub.

If it is worse then remove hub bolts and rotate IP shaft 1 rev and align marks and reinstall hub bolts.

On my brothers D-179 when it was properly timed the hub bolts were in the center of the slots in the hub.
I cannot remember the position of the key way in the IP drive shaft for 3 cyl D-179 but I do remember on the 4 cyl D-239 engine, proper IP timing is when key way on IP drive shaft is at 11 O'clock position.

The reason it can be 180 out of time is the IP pump only turns at one half the speed of the crankshaft.

If the timing is too fast engine will kick back on the starter, if too slow engine will be hard to start and smoke.
When timed properly on a warm engine the D-179 will start in less than a revolution of the engine.

Hope this helps
JimB

WOW. I will try this day after tomorrow when I'm off.

I assume I need to get the dots on gears and harmonic balancer time all lined up before I try these changes?
Line up timimg references then unbolt the IP gear and turn 3 clicks clockwise and time pump and try to start.
If it doesn't work, line everything up, unbolt gear and turn 3 clicks counter clockwise and time pump and be back where I started?
Great idea. Thanks. I'll try day after tomorrow and post results!

I wouldn't turn it backwards the second time if you still need to turn it.

Hi, DO NOT TURN IP BACKWARDS. Scribe at mark from IP hub to IP drive gear. This is your reference mark. As I described in my previous post the IP pump drive shaft only makes 1 rev for every 2 revs of the crankshaft that is the reason the timing and IP pump drive gear can be lined up perfectly but IP is 180 degrees or 1 rev out of time. To correct the 180 degree out of time,
the IP hub and drive gear are scribed with a reference mark, then the 3 bolts are removed from the IP drive hub disconnecting it from the IP drive gear, then with a wrench on the big nut on the IP drive shaft turn the nut 1 rev in the direction of the normal IP rotation and align the scribe marks and reinstall the 3 hub bolts.The reason this works is the IP drive gear remains stationary while the IP drive shaft is turned 1 rev. If the engine is worse to restore back, repeat process and turn IP hub nut 1 rev in normal IP drive rotation.

Math: Crankshaft turns 1 rev or 360 degrees, IP pump turns 1/2 Rev or 180 degrees.

I hope you can understand my explanation and procedure to turn IP pump drive shaft 1 rev.

JimB

I did the above. No change.
After I did it, I figured that since I was fooling with it anyway, I would mess with the timing on the IP hub.
I loosened the 3 bolts and turned the pump as far CLOCKWISE as it would go in the slots and tightened the bolts.
After doing that, the engine would start by itself, with white smoke, with the lever in the start position. I still could not move the lever to "Run" without the engine dying.
My question now is:
Should I remove the 3 bolts and move the IP to the next position,put the bolts back in, and turn the IP hub as far COUNTERCLOCKWISE as the slots will allow and tighten it down?
I do not believe that it would be allowed to turn as far as the previous position.

I did the above. No change.
After I did it, I figured that since I was fooling with it anyway, I would mess with the timing on the IP hub.
I loosened the 3 bolts and turned the pump as far CLOCKWISE as it would go in the slots and tightened the bolts.
After doing that, the engine would start by itself, with white smoke, with the lever in the start position. I still could not move the lever to "Run" without the engine dying.
My question now is:
Should I remove the 3 bolts and move the IP to the next position,put the bolts back in, and turn the IP hub as far COUNTERCLOCKWISE as the slots will allow and tighten it down? I do not believe that it would be allowed to turn as far as the previous position.