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Greg1959

Well-known Member
Montana under winter storm warnings. Oregon under freeze advisories down into 20 degree range...."LOCATIONS IN THE FREEZE WARNING INCLUDE: ALTAMONT...KLAMATH
FALLS...BEATTY...BLY... CHEMULT...CRESCENT...GILCHRIST...SPRAGUE
RIVER...LAKEVIEW... TULELAKE...DORRIS...ALTURAS.

Amazing and it just beginning September.
"
 
BUT DON'T YOU KNOW ALASKANS ARE HAVING TO BE RELOCATED BECAUSE IT'S GETTING TOO HOT?!

So says our fearless leader.
 
Global warming is real. Whether it's part of humans or just the earth's cycle, who knows. The threat of global warming isn't what the extremists make it out to be, though.

Basically the gradual temperature increase causes greenland's ice to melt and run off into the ocean. This affects the salinity content. Salt water weighs more than fresh water.

Big deal, right?

It doesn't seem like much, however there's something called the great conveyor belt, which relies on the salinity content of the ocean water to function. The belt is a "stream" within the ocean. Water warms up in the Indian ocean, then flows up to greenland, where it cools, and sinks, then loops back on the sea floor to the indian ocean to repeat the process.

This is what it looks like:
conveyor%20belt4.jpg


The result is the warm water coming up from the tropic's giving the western shores of Europe and the eastern shores of the US a more temperate climate than they would have had the belt not been there.

When fresh water melts off of greenland, it affects the weight of the water by reducing the salinity content. This means, even though the water has cooled, it's not sinking because it doesn't weigh as much. This results in an overall slowing of the belt, less warm water is brought up, and overall cooler weather in the region is a result.

The 2004 hollywood film "The Day After Tomorrow" is a dramatization of what could happen if the belt were to stop. The belt has had numerous stalls in history, the last one thought to have caused the last mini-ice age in europe in the 1400's.

But that's how warmer global temperatures cause a cooling effect.
 
(quoted from post at 08:18:19 09/06/15) Global warming is real. Whether it's part of humans or just the earth's cycle, who knows. The threat of global warming isn't what the extremists make it out to be, though.

Basically the gradual temperature increase causes greenland's ice to melt and run off into the ocean. This affects the salinity content. Salt water weighs more than fresh water.

Big deal, right?

It doesn't seem like much, however there's something called the great conveyor belt, which relies on the salinity content of the ocean water to function. The belt is a "stream" within the ocean. Water warms up in the Indian ocean, then flows up to greenland, where it cools, and sinks, then loops back on the sea floor to the indian ocean to repeat the process.

This is what it looks like:
conveyor%20belt4.jpg


The result is the warm water coming up from the tropic's giving the western shores of Europe and the eastern shores of the US a more temperate climate than they would have had the belt not been there.

When fresh water melts off of greenland, it affects the weight of the water by reducing the salinity content. This means, even though the water has cooled, it's not sinking because it doesn't weigh as much. This results in an overall slowing of the belt, less warm water is brought up, and overall cooler weather in the region is a result.

The 2004 hollywood film "The Day After Tomorrow" is a dramatization of what could happen if the belt were to stop. The belt has had numerous stalls in history, the last one thought to have caused the last mini-ice age in europe in the 1400's.

But that's how warmer global temperatures cause a cooling effect.
Click to expand...

How about solar cycles?
 
Here's one. There's a longer 700 year cycle too. Proven by written history in China and Europe as well as carbon dating proving that the tree line rises and falls in the mountains by several hundred feet in that cycle,along with other proof.
Maunder Minimum
 
The weather patterns change for various reasons but global temps have only gone up like .3 of one degree in10 years.for the politicians it's a way to "spread the wealth"to under developed countries.they should really worry about Iran instead
 
As humans, we tend to put the most effort to sway the people who oppose you the most. The best value is to solidify the group that supports you, sway as many on the fence and ignore the ones that oppose you. This is a pretty strong anti climate change group, doubt you will have any effect.

I believe humans should be good stewards of the environment, and we have always been very poor at this, so we need to really change. It is about time we clean up our act and quit complaining about the changes needed. I also believe that solar cycles have a big effect. There are 2 cycles, 1 is short term and the other is long term.
 
I had this same conversation with John Phipps after one of his commentaries on US Farm Report. I told him that we agree that change is taking place,but we disagree on the cause. He emailed me back with,again,what we could agree on as change,but he claimed it was proof that it was caused by man's activity.

My last email response to him was "Politicians have tried to convince me for nearly 40 years and haven't done it,you're not going to change my mind about the cause in one commentary and a few emails.".
So yes,to the purveyors of the "man made" theory,give it a rest and let's just agree on what the results could be. What they won't get on board with though,is that it's cyclical and the pendulum will swing back the other way.
 
Nice explanation. I agree the climate is changing but whether it is man made or not is the question. It might be the we happen to be alive in this day and time to see mother nature do its "thing". In my area, we don't really get much of a spring anymore. Used to be April and in to May but now it is May and June. "Winter" doesn't wait until Thanksgiving the way it used to. I remember picking corn up until Thanksgiving with no snow.
 
I swear we're in a small ice age here. The last 3 years we've struggled to get corn mature early even tho we're planting late April. We're 150 heat units behind the average now and that's an improvement after 5 day of 90's. Next week we're s'posed to go back to 70's for highs and 50's for lows. We'll make it before frost but it'd be nice to haul no. 2 corn out of the field instead of drying low 20%.
 
FatJay I have always wondered how the oceans thermal cycle worked when Greenland did not have the ice it currently has???? When Greenland was discovered but Europeans it did not have near as much ice as it does to day and Western Europe actually was warmer than it is today.

We have less than 200 years of accurate weather FACTS. Earlier than that you can go back 800-1000 years by reading what was written by people that where living then. You still will not have an accurate enough picture to see what is happening. The time frame is too short compared to the MILLIONS of years it ahs taken the earth to form to its current state.

What really makes me mad is that the experts cherry picked the facts to make the global warming case. The tree boring results where taken out if they did NOT support the global warming cause. The "experts" that really pushed this KNOW the average person will form their opinion based on thirty second NEWS flashes and never research any deeper than that. I DID read the supporting documents that I could find. Literally thousands of pages. The scientific facts are not the common consensus that the Climate change crowd want us to believe. Many of the supposed scientists that sing onto the charge are not even educated in the climate fields. So you have hundreds of abundant art Master degree holders stating that the climate change charge is fact. This is like my garbage man and my heart Doctor posting a paper saying what causes my High blood pressure with the garbage man's opinion being equal with the Doctor.

I also remember them trying to teach my kids in the 1970s that an Ice age was starting. They had 100 years of records showing that the climate was cooling as their proof. So off to the roof tops to scream the sky is falling.

The current climate change crowd is wanting and succeeding, pushing their politic agenda behind a MADE UP cause, CLIMATE CHANGE!!!!! Guess what???? The earth's climate has been changing for over 100 million years!!!! Sometimes hotter and some times cooler.
 
That is a possibility. Ive often wondered about internal temperatures as well. There was a science report on the internet that stated some of the oceans temperatures deep underneath some of the glaciers were warm or warmer than they should be. Sounds interesting. There are a lot of variables other than an SUV.
 
We agree that there's change. I don't agree with the new mantra that "The discussion is over". It time for a real discussion about the cause,to occur.
 
I don't think we have a clue about all the factors affecting this, research is just beginning in my view.
 
I agree with JD Seller. I read an article a while back by one of the pro global warmers that had records that dated all the way back to the 1950's :lol: . I also have heard of the cycles. According to what I've read, there are 1000, 500, 100 and 30 year cycles and within in them there are variations of cycles.
 
I agree 100%. I belive too,that the "man made" crowd was afraid of new evidence being discovered and in a panic said that the discussion is over.
The only thing both sides need to agree on is how to change your life to deal with the effects. That's what got my discussion going with Phipps. He said they were laying more tile,upgrading equipment so that they could get all of their planting done in five days,etc. I told him that I was glad for him and that I agreed with his realization for the need to make changes and that he was about 20 years late coming to the game. But those changes and things like not building so close to the coastline if sea levels really are rising are the changes that need to be made,not tier 4 engines and windmills,thinking that things like that will make an ounce of difference.
 
I think there are also some 10-11 thousand year orbit cycles. Africa used to be a lush tropical area that became a desert due to an orbit cycle. It might turn back into that again.
 
"Many of the supposed scientists that sing onto the charge are not even educated in the climate fields. So you have hundreds of abundant art Master degree holders stating that the climate change charge is fact."

No matter what field of science you're in,if you use any form of government funding,you had better danged well say that man made global warming is real if you don't want to see your funding taken away,simple as that.
 
That's about the same time frame that led to the formation of the Great Lakes. It's claimed that they're only about 10,000 years old.
 
Yes, I always thought about that.

Factors:

The world is getting drier due to evaporation into space.
The continents are drifting.
Volcanic gasses are being expelled.
Humans are using resources and changing climate.
The sun has cycles and is aging.
The earths orbit has cycles and sub cycles, and will detetorate due to friction with space.

All of these play into the environment, the only one we can effect is our factor.
 
I came home from college and finished picking the last few rows of corn with the '48 JD A and two row mounted picker in snow so deep I could not pull a full wagon load. 1953
 
I wrote a term paper on global warming for a geology class about 20 years ago. I couldn't prove either way whether man's activity impacted global warming, but my research showed the climate goes through warming and cooling periods of approximately 10,000 years. At present, if past trends continue, we are nearing the end of a 10,000 year warming period and within one to two thousand years will cool off into another mini ice age.

Scientist going berserk over warming are only looking at the last hundred years or so. If the entire existence of the Earth were compressed into one year, man's known history would begin at two seconds before midnight on December 31.
 
I looks to me like the big 10000 year cycle I spoke of is actually a 26000 year cycle, so we should be approaching the hottest cycle, then swing back in about 13000 years, doubt I will be around for that. This makes sense if the big glacial period was 10000-15000 years ago.
 
Ya,and the 700 year cycle,350 years of heating followed by 350 years of cooling,just recently peaked too. In the 1990's most likely. There could be big trouble with two or more warming cycles coming to an end at the same time. Not that I'll be around to have to deal with it,but similar Phipps in his commentary,I heeded the warnings 20 years ago that we were coming to the end of a cycle and that I'd better be flexible in my future farming plans. That's why I told him that if he's just coming to the realization now that he needs to make changes,he's about 20 years late to the game.

Something occurred to me about fatjay's map that he posted too. Either that map is theory,which means exactly what it says,that it's a theory,or it's fact,which means that it's happened before. If it has happened before,what caused it? Man's activities or natural cycles?
 
I've lived here 35 years and I've seen it snow on the 4th of july. A freeze can happen any time. Were at 4200 ft in the edge of the desesrt
 
You doubt you would be around for that?....with advances in modern medicine, you never.....well yes you are correct lol.
 
It happens about this time of year in that area. Last time I was on the harvest in Idaho we darned near froze in the camper in the middle of August. We woke up to ice on the windshield. The year before that we went to Jackson Wy from where we were in Idaho the last part of August and drove through snow getting there.
 
normal
I'm about even with them across the country some.
40's last week (90's today.ugh)
September is an iffy month..never know..hard frosts will come..90's too.
Always freezes at some time in October...heavy winter storms sometimes too.
Different areas of the country..well, are different.
Labor day here is truly a warning summer is over.
Neglect winter preparedness cuz it's 94 today...at your peril.
(it will feel strange this week dumping the straight water out of one of my thermo-syphons to put antifreeze in...when it's in the 90's..LOL)
 
My grandfather always talked about a winter in the 30s where it was super hot at the end, got super cold catching a lot of people off guard killing them.
 
the global warming bunch are probably the same crowd that were crying about exhaust emissions from auto's in the 80's & 90's that claimed the new emission controls had greatly reduced emissions to mostly harmless carbon dioxide,now carbon dioxide is the problem,they fell into the same category as the news media always giving statistics on how greatly the us was behind in military weapons for years until the the war in kuwait broke out all that went down the tubes
 
Well, what a bunch of hooey.
First thing I would like to say is that the idea of "taking the earth's temperature" is simply such a VAST TASK as to be nearly impossible. Temperatures can vary as much as 10 degrees from one neighborhood to another, let alone from one sensor to another. So, with the arrogance that mankind so commonly displays, the "powers that be" expect me to believe that they can ACCURATELY determine the average temperature of the earth. HOGWASH!!!!
Second thing I have to say is that many scientists focus on just a small portion of the overall picture and then try to draw conclusions out of that regarding the entire planet. A good example is that part about the circulating belt of ocean currents. While I could see that the "lighter" fresh water might somehow disrupt the flow, but how about the effect on Greenland? Would that not cause it to cool off and stop the flow of the lighter fresh water??? For that matter, given the vastness of the ocean, is there really enough ice melt coming off of Greenland to have such a profound effect???
Lastly, I would have to say that mankind in its infinite arrogance has decided that our daily activities are the cause of this climate change. Sorry, I can't buy this one. What would they have us do? Go back to living in caves and chasing down our supper and clubbing it? Even if we did do that, will the rest of the world join in? Probably not. I simply cannot take this whole thing seriously. I concede that there is not one significant thing that I or any one group of people can do to change the climate. reverse global warming, or otherwise contradict mother nature. Sounds to me like some people have an agenda, and the way that they get attention is by running around screaming that the sky is falling. I'm not buying it. Sorry.
 
I'm always amazed that a cloud can pass over and the climate changes many degrees cooler......

Sun comes up and goes down - large climate changes.....

Couple of different air masses collide and we have a thunder storm raining on my hay... Climate disaster!

Really - with all this variability, people can push climate change (especially man/woman made), I ain't buyin' it. Say it enough, people believe it. Climate change is a deep held religion.

JDSeller - I agree with everything in your post - and to keep things on topic, I'm glad I bought my JD5055d prior to the final Tier 4 emission models....

A little fertilizing today....
a200372.jpg
 
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