Vermeer 504F feeding problems

Having issues with a Vemeer 504F (4 bar pickup head / electric tie). I have already put new cam track bearings and pins in the pickup head, and it has good teeth. I adjusted the pickup teeth to 2" from the rubber flaps like the book says.
I took the baler out in the field today and it will make one roll perfectly (run up to 4x5 and the pickup head disengages) and tie it off. The next roll will start a core and then the hay will start rolling up between the back of the pickup head and the drive roll in front of the bale chamber. I have tried adjusting the pickup teeth closer and farther away from the starter roll as well as changing the angle of the hitch to change the pickup height. The hay is mature (thanks to all the rain) and I have tried raking double vs. single windrows and still the same result. I have tried different ground speeds and PTO rpms. I have tried dragging a little of the windrow up with the pickup head to throw a slug in to start the bale.Do I need to change the rubber flaps on the starter roll or are there deeper issues here? If I have to dig this thing out one more time its going to the scrap yard!
Any thoughts or somebody telling me what I am missing would be much appreciated, Thanks...

Are your belts real smooth??? In manure hay it will slip on the belts easier. It sounds like when the baler tries to put pressure on the bale core it is not turning fast enough and the hay is rolled in from of the core/starter roll. I have found that starting the bale with a low PTO speed will help with your issue. I also have had to back the bale pressure off too.

ON our Gehl 1470 baler, when the hay gets dry. there is holes in the starter roll to put a couple of pieces
of belting around it. Makes 100 % difference. Some have just put a few self taping screws in the smooth
roller. also need to start with loose belts and make a soft center. Like JDS says start at about 1200 rpm.
then speed up after a good start core is made. In 2011 was where you are. Just the belting and slowing rpm
to start made all the difference. Hope this helps. Vic

I have a Massey 1440 (504F in disguise) I was having the same issue with it and did two things.

1) Made sure all the pickup teeth were on it and in good shape.

2) Put new belts on.

I didn't realize it was the problem, but was breaking belts at the stitches way too much. When I put on new belts last year I got some rough ones and it sure changed it. I put on one 10" side belt first when one broke and that side would roll and the other would plug worse then ever. I put on the other side and it would start almost every time. I replaced two of the 4" belts with one 10" and it is a hay eating machine. I still have one 4" belt still on it and intend to replace it with another 10" when it breaks. Then it will have 4 10"belts. The rough belts is the way to go in my opinion.

(quoted from post at 19:48:49 06/13/15) Are your belts real smooth??? In manure hay it will slip on the belts easier. It sounds like when the baler tries to put pressure on the bale core it is not turning fast enough and the hay is rolled in from of the core/starter roll. I have found that starting the bale with a low PTO speed will help with your issue. I also have had to back the bale pressure off too.

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I will try the low PTO speed plus backing off the bale pressure. Belts on the baler are in good shape (has the rough texture but not a patterned texture like a JD diamond weave belt). Also all the pickup teeth are good (1/2 are new vermeer spring mounted)

Am I missing something here when it comes to the adjustment of the pickup teeth vs. the starter roll because it just seems like sometimes it is not getting the hay far enough back. I would have thought that the main drive roll would just run it back into the chamber but I guess that is too much to ask.

I guess this is why people buy new JD 459 silage special baler right?

I had a Massey 1560 baler that is a Vermeer 605(G?) and I also had a Vermeer 706A. Both of those balers were hard to start a bale if the hay was too dry or damp. I found a little trick that helped in too dry hay, I would crack open the dump gate just enough to allow the hay to enter the chamber and then close it. It usually started rolling and I wouldn't have any more trouble on that bale.
I now have a JD baler but I think the newer Vermeers are just as good.

My buddy had a MF made by Vermeer and it was a job getting the core started. Had to weave across windrow with correct rpms and hold your mouth right while praying cause if it plugged you had to dig the hay out and it would be accordion folded in there. We spot welded on the metal roller and it really helped. If you got the core going then it was all ok after that.

(quoted from post at 03:43:26 06/14/15) Having issues with a Vemeer 504F (4 bar pickup head / electric tie). I have already put new cam track bearings and pins in the pickup head, and it has good teeth. I adjusted the pickup teeth to 2" from the rubber flaps like the book says.
I took the baler out in the field today and it will make one roll perfectly (run up to 4x5 and the pickup head disengages) and tie it off. The next roll will start a core and then the hay will start rolling up between the back of the pickup head and the drive roll in front of the bale chamber. I have tried adjusting the pickup teeth closer and farther away from the starter roll as well as changing the angle of the hitch to change the pickup height. The hay is mature (thanks to all the rain) and I have tried raking double vs. single windrows and still the same result. I have tried different ground speeds and PTO rpms. I have tried dragging a little of the windrow up with the pickup head to throw a slug in to start the bale.Do I need to change the rubber flaps on the starter roll or are there deeper issues here? If I have to dig this thing out one more time its going to the scrap yard!
Any thoughts or somebody telling me what I am missing would be much appreciated, Thanks...

Click to expand...

If the rubber flaps get worn down they will not start a bale.

Thanks for the replies earlier, between putting new starter flaps on and lowering the PTO rpms starting a bale, the baler has been working great.

Until................

I was baling straw earlier this week and now the tailgate wont stay latched. I draw the gate up tight and the indicator comes up, then a few moments later it starts coming back down. The gate cylinders are pushing back out and the pressure gauge on the baler shows goes to 100 then bleeds back down to nothing. The only thing I have done differently was I had to give the gate lockout a few twists because it was too tight to push right in when I stopped to clean some straw off the twine arm. I have tried switching the hoses in the couplers with the same result. I have a slight weep at the gauge but I cant believe that would be causing this (i will still fix it). I also have a hard time believing it is the couplers on tractor because it has been fine till now. I ended up hitting the gate lock after closing the baler to finish up, but that is not exactly a long term solution (other than to lose a few pounds).
I don't think springs are the answer for the gate latch because the cylinder will overcome them. What is there in the hydraulics on this baler that would be letting fluid back through to push the cylinders back out?