what would you do question

Last summer in late June I had a phone call to bid a job at a local business that I had done work for their sister business before. It involved replacing the electrical panel. I bid the job After about a week of getting prices in order, they verbally accepted. I told them I wanted to do it on a weekend to avoid disrupting business. Between everything it took me just over a month to get there and do the work. In the process I screwed up and fried one of their computer towers. I offered to pay for damages on the spot and they said they had an in house person to repair it and would let me know. I called the furnace guy to let him know the job was ready to continue and since he was out of town I left him a message. One week later I realized I had not heard back but I forgot to call him back for two more weeks. When he got there he told me he wasn't planning on setting the AC until next spring, then he said maybe that week. I left that day with the understanding that either he or the business would call me when it was ready to hook up. I didn't get a call and was incredibly busy, but in February I called and asked when the AC would be set and they told me it was already hooked up.

Bottom line is that now they don't want to pay anything because 1: they said they didn't get a bill. 2: it took me too long to get there. 3: I didn't finish the job. 4 I billed them before I was finished.5: I messed everything up and fried a bunch of equipment. Total bid was just under $2000. Do I drop it, fight it? Not after the full amount since I did smoke 1 power supply and they did hire someone else to finish even though I was never notified it was ready.

I'm not blaming them for being unhappy and I realize I burned the bridge however I have a hard time believing that the work I did is worth nothing. OK now time to get beat up for doing it all wrong

Greg, from what you have told us, I'm afraid that you're going to have to eat a significant part of it, if not all. I'd bargain with them for a reduced amount, but not too aggressively.

I have done side jobs in the past hopeing to make extra money. Only to find out in his world I live in a bunch of people who are never happy. If I take a job I do it like I would want it done for myself. I use to to do it with a hand shake and take them for there word but I to have found out that times have change. I know do a side job with paper work and foams in hand I got tired of doing work with no pay. This I can take to small claims court and then receive my payment but this way is my last optiion. I usually try to get them to cover the coast of metrails then I might agree wavior my labor fees. This some times make them very happy.

Think I would make an appointment to see the person that hired you to do the job. Make it very cordial, professional, and pleasant as possible. Possibly there was a miscommunication up the line to someone who doesn't know all the facts. Be willing to negotiate, try to at least get paid for any materials you invested. Going in with a humble attitude can sometimes work, nothing to loose by trying.

Ok. Thanks so far. I'm also at that point of that I'm just cutting my losses and trying to get a deal that is fair all the way around

I say any time you drag a job out like that - you're already on thin ice. The bottom line is your reputation is ALWAYS on the line. If you bid on a job, do it, and do it well. Forgetting to call back, waiting too long for people to call you back - let's face it, it's nobody's fault but yours, and it's bad business. You got sloppy.

On top of that you fried some of their equipment.

If it was either of two - inexcusable delays OR blowing some equipment up - I'd say try to work with them. But you've got both against you.

Write a short apology and leave it.

In fact I've done a very similar things myself. Contracted to write some software for a company - kept putting it off, doing it in small pieces while doing other work. Finally got so ridiculous they wanted out, and said they'd pay me for the time I had into it. I apologized that I spread myself too thin with other jobs - and that I wouldn't consider charging them a dime for a half-a#*($#ed project I didn't complete.

I had no delusion that they'd ever hire me again for anything, but it was still the right thing to do.

Did you issue a written credit to compensate them for the damage?
If not, do that, then send a statement showing original bill and credit, Then pursue that amount. I expect that they really intend to pay you a reduced amount.

More or less a learning curve at this point, potentially a claim. Lot of mis-coordination, confusion, time elapsed. It's possible that you could bill them for acceptable work, and attempt to get payment on that. They could dispute it, or pay. You did offer to pay for damaged equipment, they let you off the hook apparently on that. They could counter with a damage value equal to your bill.

Legally, its hard to say where you stand, consult with any attorney on that end of it. Was there s signed contract/bid proposal? What was the scope of work of the contract if so? Provision for damages or schedule impact, coordination with the other trade(s), out of sequence provisions if you could not complete your contract work continuously, etc. etc. etc.

What you describes just sounds un-organized. When you are a contractor, that is a very bad way to conduct business. The simple philosophy of construction/contracting is to get the work, perform the work/complete the contract, get paid and move on to the next one.

I would suggest a formal contract/subcontract agreement/bid proposal, standard for your business, prepared by a competent attorney in that area, one that is "boiler plate" and standard for every job, you just fill out the particulars or specifics at contract negotiation time. Things like scope of work, payment, schedule, sequence, can vary and can be agreed to by both parties if there are special circumstances, un-forseen conditions to deal with, potential changes or additional work that could arise.

Be prepared, be organized PRIOR to contract award. 2nd, when responding to a solicitation for a bid, take the time to organize the job properly, each one will be different, so be sure to iron out the specifics up front. Include any exclusions, note work to be done by others, coordination needed with other trades, come-back work like to connect the A/C unit if that is out of sequence and set when you won't be on site, a total scope of work description, schedule, and the payment terms once the work is complete. A job like this, with a delayed comeback, or out of sequence work, you should be paid for acceptable work in place with normal terms on that. You could state that its included, make a line item on your estimate so you have it included internally, most customers would appreciate it vs a stack of time and material slips to be agreed upon later with no timekeeper or monitoring on site, hence lump sum bid/proposals and a signed contract agreement up front. Progress payments are typical on large and even some small jobs if necessary. Your work has to be acceptable to receive payment, time is always of the essence on both sides of this. So the work you did prior to the A/C unit being set, was done, acceptable and the terms should state that payment should be rendered in full or as the job progresses, whatever the agreement states. You do this to maintain cash flow and keep current on the receivables for that job. You can't be successful in this business by leaving gaping holes in areas that create risks for payment.

Sometimes its a wide front to maintain on all aspects as a business owner or private contractor. A savvy contractor does not let one area get behind, whatever it takes, keep current across the board, if you don't it becomes a huge mess in no time. Believe me, I have seen it at all levels in this industry. Large scale work to residential homes, light commercial etc. I know some that let the line out too far, then spend days on bill collection, time elapses, at some point you realize you have a mess on hand, stack of receivables, cash flow problems, one job carrying 3 others, when it should not be like that. This shifts your focus, creates financial problems and is unproductive use of time. Sure you will always have problem jobs, just not widespread. When your focus is needed on that one problem job, and you have widespread problems, it becomes a very serious dilemma, one that can jeopardize your business, reputation and future work.

Communication and coordination, will vary per the job, don't fall off the customers radar, if things get complicated, you are busy, the job is not ready for you to work, stay in contact, take the time at intervals to monitor your and the customers interest on the job. If need be, call the A/C guy, work it out with him as to when you'll meet on site to finish, he drops the ball, you show up and document same, inform the customer, vice versa, you drop the ball, you're in the hot seat. On large projects this function is the same, but done by project managers or superintendents for all trades on site, to keep the job rolling without delay or problems, same thing applies to the smallest of jobs, but you may have to do it because most customers don't know much about things like that unless you have customers that are general contractors and know how to keep the work moving along. Doing nothing is never a good idea, put the customer on notice, get involved or find a way, do whatever is in your best interest to get the work done and fulfill your contract. If you hit a wall, with a delay or problem, simply document same, photos, brief notation or report, inform the appropriate parties and follow up until resolved. On small scale contracting, just stay organized and attend to your customers in a visible manner, you won't encounter these situations nearly as much, or at all, and you'll get repeat business.

You may just have to learn from this one, organize your affairs much better for the next one. No need to get beat up here, its a learning curve most every contractor will encounter.

Considering the price of the job was $2,000.00 if things went well, the best way at this point to cut your loss is to apologize, move on and spend your time and effort on something constructive. To paraphrase Horst Schulze who ran the Ritz Carlton hotel chain, people will forgive you if the coffee is served late or if it is served cold. They won't forgive you if they feel you don't care.

A whole lot of time passed there with poor communication.

I understand mistakes, I do so myself all the time.

When I'm a customer on a deal like this, two things important are communication and time.

I want to know what's happening, and when will it happen.

If something got wrecked I might, if discussed, say we shoulda been on top of that ourselves, at least share the deal.

If someone was forgotten to be called, that happens, tell me and move forward.

But string it all together, sure sounds like there was not much communication, and pretty slow action.

If you have material list I'd look at that, and pay you that minus the power supply. Or pay the materials and forget the labor for the power supply.

Communication and time, I am going to assume an electrician is licensed and can do the job, one like the other, what I look for is communication and timeliness.

Paul

I think you can write it off as a loss for your taxes.?

you sound like a typical florida sub- contractor.

Good examples of:

1. written & signed proposal/contract
2. proper filing of mechanic's lien and customers request for lien waiver from you
3. why you are bonded and have insurance

Im my state you are out of luck because every job starts with a signed by customer proposal . Clearly stated when you get your license.

correct

good point on materials - if you've got a significant amount of hardware installed (say over $100) - bill them for that.

Kinda my issue. Materials are around half of the bid.

Trust .................. but verify 8)

Not meaning to be too harsh, but having been on the receiving end of contractors much like yourself, I can tell you something about how a customer feels:
First, it seems to take FOREVER to get the work done. Contractor seems not to care if he/she ever finishes.
Second, sloppy workmanship. You are supposed to be a PROFESSIONAL. Frying equipment is simply unacceptable. In the real business world, the lost revenue that can potentially happen if the use of a vital piece of equipment is out of service can be substantial.
Third, a total lack of communication. While I do understand how things can get "too busy" to deal with, at the same time, it only takes a few minutes to make contact and update each other.

In short, you goofed up big time. What you deserve is to be paid for your materials less the cost of repairing the damage that you did. In any case, without some kind of hard copy of an agreement, your case is shaky at best.

No personal offense intended, however contractors like you are the reason I started doing for myself so many years ago. Took my car to a guy to fix something that was well above my level. He not only did NOT fix it, but made it worse and then tried to charge me for it. I quickly educated myself and learned how to do it myself. Had a contractor do some work on my house many years ago under an urban renewal grant. Took him FOREVER to finish it up. Finally, when he was looking to get paid, I had the payment escrowed until he finished the job. That finally got him moving. I could go on and on, but suffice it to say you will get no sympathy from me.

P. S. I do some auto repair for a few people that I know. If I mess up a job, it comes right out of my pocket. I back my work 100 per cent. AND, if I don't fix the problem, I do not take money. Even if I take a loss on the deal. I also do NOT take any other "mechanic's" diagnosis. 'Nuff said.

(reply to post at 10:25:05 06/09/15)

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I would say,, fine.. I will just drop by and pull everything out that I installed... I dont remember you calling me back.. I dont remember you getting me a bill for the power supply.. (75 bucks or less, most are 35bucks). So,, when do you want me to pull the equipment,,, during the week or on this weekend?....


Also.... anytime you take down power, there is a good chance that some equipment that runs 24 hours a day, for years, will fail... We had equipment fail in the computer rooms and av rooms every time they cut power at a leading telephone company. After being hot for 5 years and then cooling down, a lot of the brittle capacitors would break and go open.... Its a fact of life... In the av rooms all of the extron video converters would pop the power supplies,,, we referred to it.. as the extron blue flu..... They all got it, well 7 of the 16 died.

And some of the cisco routers went belly up when we powered them down up do upgrades, memory and feature cards.. always the power supplies due the high heat they generate.

So I really dont know why a 38 dollar power supply in a server tower is a big deal, especially if it was fixing to go anyway. If it was a hd model it should have had redundant power supplies and you simply pull the one out with the red light and replace it. Again more do to age than probably anything you did other than turn the power off and on.

Well Greg you REALLY NEED to work on your organization skills. You can be the best tradesman in the world but with the POOR organization skill you showed on this job you will have LOT of unhappy customers.

Here is what I would do in this case. TAKE them a bill, in person ( Very important to apologize face to face), for the materials ONLY!! Show the original labor charge and then show a credit equal to your labor amount, for their time and damaged equipment. This seems fair to me in this case. YOU MESSED up big time in several ways, damaged equipment and VERY POOR follow up on the job. So they really should not pay the full bill but they did get the materials you installed.

Now for future jobs. You need to be better organized so you DO NOT drop the ball like you did on this "job". Simple way is to get a regular old spiral ring note book. Write down today what you NEED to do tomorrow. Anything not completed today gets wrote on the next sheet for the next day. This would include the need to call the furnace guy and also call the customer to keep them in the loop on what is going on. I don't care if you have to copy something forward fifty times the simple fact of writing it down MAKES you remember it!!!! This is simple to do and it is mostly idiot proof. I see these morons trying to do this with a smart phone. What happens if they lose or damage their phone???? Everything lost. Plus writing and typing are two different things to your mind as far as memory goes.

I would not beat myself up too bad but I would make darn sure and NOT do this type of thing again.

Also are you licensed and insured???? IF not QUIT until you are.

Then that's simple - I'd just tell them that look, sorry this job fell apart, no charge for any of my time, but you've got $1000 worth of materials and you'll either need to cover that cost, or I'll need it all back.

Document it - break out the prices for any major components.

For that you have a leg to stand on. And I can't imagine any rational prerson arguing the matter.

Thanks for all the input guys. Like I said, and as a few of you were kind enough to point out, I screwed up. I was looking at the ways to rectify it as much as possible. One of my issues is that I had no complaints or even a response until I showed up in person to ask why they didn't want to pay. I had no issue with their complaints I just wish they would straight up tell me instead of saying they would look into it. I think I need to go in again and sit down and not leave until we have an understanding one way or the other.
As far as organization, yes that is an issue. I do have the notebook and notes, however for me that is not enough. Also the problem with a job site is that the notebook May well be a half mile away and is not always possible to write it down before it escapes my mind. I have quit answering most calls and let them go to voicemail so then I at least have a record of sorts. The downside to this is that it irritates people when you don't answer their calls.
One aspect that JDSeller may relate to since he did repair work is how little work it takes to go from seeing the light at the end of the tunnel to realizing it is an oncoming train. For an example, when I first started in business I had a local contractor give me a chance to bid on a house and I got the bid. Around the same time the fire department that I belong to voted to build a new fire hall and let me wire it. The house was supposed to start in the spring and be ready to wire by July. The fire hall was to be a winter project with no hurry. Well the spring was really wet and cold and the concrete gut didn't pour footings until July. About then a classmate said he wanted to build a house that fall. I agreed to wire it knowing that every concrete guy was 3 months out and carpenters were really behind too. About the mid/end of September I realized I was going to be in trouble since they were all lining up to be ready at once. I started working 7 days a week to prepare for it and sure enough on the week before Thanksgiving they were all ready and they wanted the fireball ready for the annual fundraiser in February. Well it takes just over a week to rough in the one house, the other house is 5000 square feet and will take about 2- 3 weeks, and the fire hall will take a month. This is not including all the other little jobs I had going. I ended up working 7 days a week from September to February, minus a few for holidays. So to schedule is one thing but for life to follow your schedule is another.

Well Greg just set down with them and iron out what you both think it fair. As for not having a notebook at hand. I wear a pocket shirt year round. There is a note book in that pocket year round too.

Not answering your phone WILL lose you more business. If you don't have the time or want a record of call then get and answering service. This an actual person that takes/screen messages for you. They usually are setup to where they can get you if they deem it important. Maybe even hire some one that just wants part time work out of their home to answer your calls. Two of the local tradesmen do that. The plumber I know and he loves it and says it made his life much easier.

A friend of mine always says, "An education costs money". Sounds to me like you just paid $2000 in tuition.

If I was you, I would worry more about damage control than I would accounts receivable. You need to understand that the 2 grand is gone, forget what the YT lawyers are saying about contracts and bid sheets.... its over, the money is gone, turn the page. In this customers mind, you are a no show putz that they had to replace just to finish a job (a small one at that). Dont make it worse by pouring over your contract to see if you should be getting paid or sending a bill. Follow through just like you did with the work, make sure the billing never gets there.

Im not saying this to be harsh. Im saying it so you keep in mind that the 2 grand in not worth hurting your reputation even more than it already got beat up. Learn from it.

So your a part timer do u pay taxes for your auto repair......

They owe you the money for the services provided especialy if they didn't call you back verbal contracts can be binding they didn't Kick u out or call the police because u were doing the work. So what you broke something you owe them the money for that. I have been a contractor for 20 years it hard to get to every thing as timely as people would like. Your busy because your good don't let them con u get what's fair.