OT Estate Question

We moved our parents into assisted living on January 1st of this year and they love it. My older brother and his wife moved her mom into the same facility and she had a small farm place. My sister in law's brother has let some one move into the farm house rent free but has to pay utilities just to keep the house occupied. My brother has talked about doing this with our parents' house. We can't rent it out or it will effect our dad's VA benefits and or dad and mom's medicare benefits? Anyway my question is... Is there a stipulation if some one lives in a house can they eventually claim it as their's without paying a dime for it? This is in St. Clair County of Illinois...

It's possible that after a certain number of years they could claim it by adverse possession. The fact that they paid the utilities would be a huge factor in their favor. You might circumvent that by paying the utilities yourself and renting it to them for the average cost of the utilities, if that's all you want out of the house.

Consulting an attorney might be money well spent.

I would NOT LET anyone live in the house for "free"!!!!! Your asking for trouble. Talk to an estate lawyer and get the farm/house into some type of a trust that would allow the house to be formally rented with the income structured so it did not effect your parent's retirement benefits.

You better get an attorney going on this one quick. My first concern would be someone living in a house my family owns that can't afford anything more than utilities. It's a great deal for them, but I bet they tear it up quick as they don't have a dog in the fight and it will take you months to get them out through an eviction process plus attorney fees on your side. Honestly you would be better off to shutter the place and let it sit. If the rent doesn't even bring in enough to pay the taxes on the place then what?

Greg

Did you mean Medicaid rather than Medicare?

IANAL, but as I understand it once someone moves into a house, they gain a "possessory interest" in the property. Which means you will have to go to court to evict them should they refuse to leave. I suggest you screen your tenant carefully; just because they don't pay rent doesn't mean they won't trash the house. I suggest you write up a lease that is very specific about their responsibilities and charge a nominal rent. If you have to go to court, the judge will want to see the lease.

I always wonder; would you go ask a lawyer how best to set timing on an early version JD-70? No? Same reason, I'd would not go ask a bunch of tractor experts for legal advice.

lawyer
but, even with iron clad leases, terms, etc....
when you want someone out...and they don't want to go..it's a mess.
giving notice, eviction orders, endless extensions.
Been thru it once myself.
The tenants in my old house would not leave even after endless legal orders.
When the house I was selling closed and I had no place to go,
I backed my truck up to my old house and started moving in.
Spect it would have got a little crowded at bedtime, but they left.
Never again......

Rent it for a nominal fee. I have been in the opposite. I lived in a house for a few years that the owner was in the nursing home. $100/mo. Rent and the family didn't have to worry about an empty house. Of course I grew up 2 mi away and knew the family well, I was willing to take care of small things without asking. I moved out when one of her grandkids decided he wanted to move in.

Here in MI, I can't remember if it is 5 or 7 years of taking care of property, it can be claimed by the person "taking care of it". Farmer near me gained a couple extra acres that way.

Ross

John, let me start by answering your question:

"Anyway my question is... Is there a stipulation if some one lives in a house can they eventually claim it as their's without paying a dime for it?"

HERE ARE MY TOTALLY UNRESEARCHED (in your jurisdiction) YET PROFESSIONAL LEGAL OPINIONS WITH NO WARRANTY ABSENT ALL THE RELEVANT FACTS AND THOROUGH RESEARCH


In a few rare cases and very fact sensitive and specific situations in some jurisdictions, the old common law doctrine (or could be codified) of "Adverse Possesion" might allow a "squatter" or "adverse possessor" to eventually acquire title to real estate. The possession must be hostile open adverse continuous notorious for x number of years plus a few other requirements AND IS AGAIN VERY FACT SENSITIVE and no way I can explain or cover it all here or answer everything. Still, to answer your question in a nutshell the answer is YES. But its not very difficult to prevent this from ever happening, I know how I would advise a client here in Indiana, but I suggest you consult a local competent trained professional attorney in your jurisdiction and DO NOT rely solely on lay or unresearched professional opinions posted here about how it should be done!!!!

SIDE ISSUES

WARNING When dealing with government agencies or Medicare or Medicaid issue or questions, the law is EXTREMELY COMPLICATED and got worse under external_linkcare. Many general practice attorneys are "out to lunch" in this area and only attorneys who specialize in Medicare and Medicaid and VA are ones I as an attorney would recommend. Even if you rent a house for maintenance and upkeep purposes and dont collect a dime rent THERE IS STILL SOME CERTAIN VALUE THAT BENEFITS THE HOME OWNER so don't think big brother government cant step in and such might affect your parents benefits. DO NOT bet or risk the farm or your parents benefits on anything anyone here (yours truly included) might think CONSULT A LOCAL MEDICARE MEDICAID ATTORNEY

TENANTS I used to but gave it up in my practice when a landlord came to me seeking an eviction BECAUSE IT CAN BE A NIGHTMARE AND HUGE EXPENSE to evict a tenant regardless of what the law says, THEY JUST WONT LEAVE LOL and you can spend a ton of time and money to eventually get them out and then they trash the place to seek revenge for which you may never collect a dime because they are "judgment proof" and we no longer have debtors prisons.

LIABILITY ISSUES Usually when a landlord leases property to a tenant the written lease well covers liability and risk of loss and several other relevant legal issues and who bears what risks etc. If there is no writing common law may prevail BUT MY WARNING AS AN ATTORNEY IS BE CAREFUL if the rent is strictly verbal and if in writing (even if rent free) consult a local trained professional to be sure all the bases are covered.

BOTTOM LINE Don't let this scare you, your idea about preserving the home and helping your parents is noble AND CAN BE LEGALLY ACCOMPLISHED. Its just that dealing with government agencies and Medicare and Medicaid and the VA IS SO FREAKING COMPLICATED its takes a specialized attorney to answer all the questions and protect you and your parents. If it were my parents and even though I'm an attorney, I would consult a Medicare Medicaid and VA practicing attorney and not rely on my own or any lay advice or anything posted on a Tractor Forum. As I often note legal or electrical questions get more responses then any topics posted here and there are fine well intentioned folks trying their best to help which is why I love it here and help when I can, but when it comes to VA and the Government and Medicare and Medicaid THATS WHEN FOR SURE YOU NEED TO CONSULT A TRAINED PROFESSION FOR ADVICE...

Best wishes, YES your noble goals can be accomplished, but I would seek professional specialized legal advice for all the reasons noted above.

John T BSEE, JD Attorney at Law and Electrical Engineer

You need to talk to an attorney in your area that handles estate cases. Hal

I would consider the liability factor .If they're not paying rent can they sue you for injuries or lose from theft or fire.

If your not gonna charge rent ,put one of your children in it.

If you have to worry about that, you are getting the wrong persons to live there........

There are 100 issues you face, your question is way down the list of what you need to be worried about.

I can't imagine doing this with strangers.

Anyhow, you draw up a renters agreement and have it signed, even for 0 rent you do the agreement.

Such a document would take care of your question. In general, these property takings have to happen without any agreement or acknowledgement between the parties, and any sort of dollar excheange or signed agreement puts such stuff off. Of course anyone can sue anyone for anything, no matter how far fetched, so - anything can happen, you just need your documents lined up to protect yourself. The details of such a document would be up to a lawyer in your state to craft, if you are worried about those details.

The bigger problem you face is getting rid of a deadbeat renter. And that is what you will have. There will be no incentive for a rent free renter to leave your property, there will be zero incentive to get them to marginally care for the place. Most state laws favor the renter these days, so once you tell thrm to leave, they will likely have months to,play the game, and trash the place as they stay there ever longer. Why would you leave when anywhere else will cost you money, this place is free?

That is where your concern needs to be.

Paul

You might be better off to have a signed rental agreement charging $1/ month rent minimum. Myself, I would want enough rent to cover the DIRTI FIVE: Depreciation; Insurance; Repairs; Taxes; and Interest. Those are all deductible expenses, so I don't think just enough rent to just cover those expenses would change your parent's net reported income. Also consider requiring a $500 or $1000 security deposit.

Absolutely talk to your parent's benefits administrators and a local real estate lawyer before proceeding. Your parents and your family might be better off to just sell the property.

Let me think . I was in the military , I went to welding school. Became an electrician [after being a Harley dealer mechanic]. SURE I'm qualified for any legal advice .What do you need to know ?

Many of the folks on this board have over a century of living with knowledge of much more than just tractors. So to answer your question, yes, I would ask a lawyer that question if I knew that lawyer was a vintage JD tractor person.

It's an old scam that is still going on. People will move into vacant houses or apartments and "take possession". When the owner tries to get them to move out, the people say that they will move out for XXXX amount of dollars, which is usually just a bit less than it would cost to take them to court. For some reason, the law officials seem to think that is a civil matter that they can't do anything about.

(quoted from post at 21:14:07 05/07/15) We moved our parents into assisted living on January 1st of this year and they love it. My older brother and his wife moved her mom into the same facility and she had a small farm place. My sister in law's brother has let some one move into the farm house rent free but has to pay utilities just to keep the house occupied. My brother has talked about doing this with our parents' house. We can't rent it out or it will effect our dad's VA benefits and or dad and mom's medicare benefits? Anyway my question is... Is there a stipulation if some one lives in a house can they eventually claim it as their's without paying a dime for it? This is in St. Clair County of Illinois...

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They can claim anything they want, the question you should be asking is... do they have a snowballs chance in hades of winning, thats the question. Remember, we live in America, where anybody can sue anyone for anything. Thats the way the legal system is set up and thats the way lawyers like it.

So to the question, you are asking if they stand a chance of winning your parents property by just living in it. Unlikely. Simple, shortest reason is because you are ALLOWING the use of the property. For anybody to take the property away from your parents, 3 requirements have to be meet. Open, notorious and hostile have to be meet but if you ALLOW someone on the property, you kick the third leg out (the hostile leg) and the lawsuit will fall on its face. ALL 3 of the requirements must be meet, without all 3, the lawsuit cant win.

You can read mor about adverse possession on the wiki page. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_possession

If you read the link above, it says Illinois (like Wisconsin) has a 20 year clock before someone could be sucessful. Think about it. Even if you didnt allow somebody in the house, they would still have to occupy the house for 20 years before they could claim it. You think thats realistic?

Now wait for everybody to start posting how they know someone that lost land to someone claiming Squatters Rights. While winning (or even filing) a claim like that is very, very rare, EVERYBODY seems to think they know someone that lost land that way. Usually a brothers neighbor had a cousin that walked by an old man on a porch that told them a story, but by gum, its TRUE (so they say).

Also, keep in mind, even though you didnt ask, others are right, once you let someone move in, they are residents of that property and to get them out, you have to file eviction on them. If you let them stay for the cost of utilities, you can get burned on that too because the utility companies usually hold the owner responcible, rather than any renter. That means it would be a better idea for the people staying there to pay your parents for the utilities and the parents make sure they keep paid up.

There are other issues that could pop up but this covers some of the big ones. See a lawyer though, this could be hairy for your parents. Hopefully John T shows up, print out his responce so you know what to read up on before you walk into a lawyers office. A lawyer will be happy to educate you and talk to you for hours but around here, a decent one starts at $350 and they go up from there. Even the idiots are expensive at around $200 an hour, educate yourself as much as you can before walking in the door.

Good luck.

I would say most renters now days are deadbeats. Charging no rent, you are getting the best of the deadbeats. It will be trashed anyway when you get them out. Why the head ache, just board it up.

I did as you mentioned with our vacant farm house. We let a neighbor boy live there in exchange for paying utilities and doing upkeep. It was nice having him there to keep an eye on the place. He eventually got married and moved on, but it was a good relationship while it lasted. We did have a written lease agreement. So much depends upon who you are dealing with. Know the person.