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What would you charge...new situation

E

Eldon (WA)

Well-known Member
I had a potential customer call wanting me to cut down 120 acres of old stubble and weeds before the Realtor signs go up. I normally run a 75 hp tractor and 8' Bush Hog rotary @ $75 an hour, but he wants me to use my 100 hp tractor and his 15' Bush Hog flail mower. What would you charge per hour?
 
Even though your using his beater you running more HP and burning more fuel so I wouldn't think I would charge less than $75, maybe more.
 
I would calculate expected fuel cost plus 20% for overage and routine maintenance, add in whatever you value your labor at per hour plus
carrying charge on your labor of at least 30% to cover income taxes etc. plus a mobilization/ demobilization fee covering hauling your tractor
and scouting the field for obstacles. I would also get in writing who is responsible for his mower if it tears up or there are stumps or junk iron in
the field as well as having the owner service the mower prior to starting and document same.
 
$1/HP-HR

i.e.:
100 HP times $1/HP-HR = $100/HR
75 HP times $1/HP-HR = $75/HR

That 15 foot mower will work your 100HP tractor harder than your 8 foot mower worked your 75HP tractor.
 
Hi I don't know what to tell you to charge, I never get rich on most jobs so that kinda disqualifies me!. What i will say is if you use his mower, you need to verify yourself( not his word) that the slip clutches or shear pins are correct and will function as intended. I have personally seen the damaged insides of a tractor pto drive/rear end, of a friends self drive hire tractor. That tractor was put on a customers pto driven machine.
The slip clutch didn't work as it was rusted solid. This then smashed $10.000 of the rear end when it hit more rock than you can imagine and jammed solid at pto revs . That could be your tractor if your not careful!
Good luck with your decision.
Regards Robert
 
Get a written agreement who will pay for certain damages to your tractor and his mower, otherwise you may end up paying a husky price to rebuild his mower (that he may already know has problems?).
 
What ever you charge per hour for tractor ie $75. If he tries to beat you down WALK!!! Also what Dick said on using his mower. I would have it 0 responsible for it!!!
 
This is one I'd turn down. There is something this guy ain't telling you either about conditions on the property or the condition of the mower.

Rick
 
I agree with posters below.

Use your equipment after throughly inspecting the property or turn it down.

Dean
 
He needs some mowing done and he is telling you what equipment to use. Sounds like he needs a mower repaired. Walk away.
 
Something fishy here. I'd use my own equipment or walk away. Personally I think I'd be too busy to do the job, even with my own equipment.
 
He's telling you what equipment to use?
I agree with the last poster. Something is fishy here.
What ever you decide on how, where, when, and what to do, I would be concerned on getting paid when you done. That would be allot of time and work for a job that size and then get the jack around when your done. Been there and done that, lesson learned.
 
I suspect that he's looking for a discount on your rate because you'd be using some of his equipment. IMO, the risks involved outweigh the benefits. In fact, charge him MORE if you have to use his equipment. :lol: That'll make him scratch his head and say "go ahead and do it how you want".
 
Why does he have the mower and not his own tractor to run it? I say stick to what you have and know, not something you know nothing about. And 50% down when you sign contract, 25% when you pull into field and rest upon finnishing and that rest would only be your labor as you would have covered all costs before starting so all you could loose is your time. And if any problems arise in field stop mowing imediatly and get things corrected before continuing and get paid extra for your down time. But what is old stubble, wheat stubble of past year, corn stalks of past year or something else going back several years from last mowing or tillage. Possibly brush. Something else may mean hidden problems. And he probably thinks that with his mower you would get done in a third the time of yours and tractor would cost no more to operate so he would get the job done for a third the cost if you used your outfit.
 
Just make sure to check the oil in the gearboxes if you use his mower. We had a seal go out on a Rhino last fall, took out a couple of bearings and a cover plate. About six hundred to fix it.
 
I would certainly try to work out something with this person to use the larger mower. I don't think that all of the advice that you are getting here have had the experience of mowing 120 acres with a 8 foot mower. I have a 7 1/2 foot
finishing mower just for my lawn and I can get all the tractor driving I want with that. An 8 foot mower on a 120 acres you will feel that you are making a career out of it before you are finished.
 
(quoted from post at 06:22:32 05/05/15) I suspect that he's looking for a discount on your rate because you'd be using some of his equipment. IMO, the risks involved outweigh the benefits. In fact, charge him MORE if you have to use his equipment. :lol: That'll make him scratch his head and say "go ahead and do it how you want".
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I think you are probably correct in thinking he will get a little better deal...even if I do it for $20 an acre, that would be $2400 with my rig. I don't think there is anything fishy about the deal, he sounds like he lives in the city, inherited the family farm, had it subdivided into 10 acre lots a few years ago and now wants to start selling them with the market coming back. He bought this mower thinking he could do the job himself, but says his Chinese tractor won't pull it. He said it has been leased out until last year...crops were alfalfa and oats. Most of the weeds should be old and dry, with new grass and weeds still short.
 
Personally, I think the replies below are being way too cautious. I would make it known, with no exceptions, that anything that goes wrong with his machine is on him.

Heck yes he would like to see you use a 15' mower instead of an 8 footer. If it was me, I would rather use a 15' mower as well. However, it will take more power and wear on the 15' thus the 100hp, and I would charge $120.00 per hour for the tractor and time.

These doomsdayers below have obviously never tried to mow 120 acres with an 8' machine. Here is KS we have to mow CRP once ever few years, and I promise you if you do it with an 8' mower, you will be very familiar with the inside of your cab. Plus, did you think about the wear and tear on your mower?

I would use his mower, make sure he knows you have no risk for any damage, and go for it. But that is just an opinion, worth what you are paying for it. Good luck - Bob
 
(quoted from post at 07:20:45 05/05/15) I would certainly try to work out something with this person to use the larger mower. I don't think that all of the advice that you are getting here have had the experience of mowing 120 acres with a 8 foot mower. I have a 7 1/2 foot
finishing mower just for my lawn and I can get all the tractor driving I want with that. An 8 foot mower on a 120 acres you will feel that you are making a career out of it before you are finished.
Click to expand...

I can cut over 4 acres an hour with a field that size with my rig, so it would take 3 good days. I think the rotary would leave a better looking field, which may be to his benefit since he wants everything to look nice when selling his lots. Also I'm not sure I can run a flail at 6 mph and do a good job, especially if the mower is old and worn out, and may take just as long....so now I'm leaning toward using my own equipment.
 
(quoted from post at 07:32:12 05/05/15) Personally, I think the replies below are being way too cautious. I would make it known, with no exceptions, that anything that goes wrong with his machine is on him.

Heck yes he would like to see you use a 15' mower instead of an 8 footer. If it was me, I would rather use a 15' mower as well. However, it will take more power and wear on the 15' thus the 100hp, and I would charge $120.00 per hour for the tractor and time.

These doomsdayers below have obviously never tried to mow 120 acres with an 8' machine. Here is KS we have to mow CRP once ever few years, and I promise you if you do it with an 8' mower, you will be very familiar with the inside of your cab. Plus, did you think about the wear and tear on your mower?

I would use his mower, make sure he knows you have no risk for any damage, and go for it. But that is just an opinion, worth what you are paying for it. Good luck - Bob
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A potential problem I see is his mower breaking down and me waiting for him to get it fixed...or finding someone to fix it while I sit 40 miles from home waiting....
 
Very true, but the same could happen to yours. It's certainly your call, but I started on a 160 acre field of CRP with an 8' mower a few years ago and said never again. That is why most here in KS that have much CRP bought the 15' or 20' mowers.

If time is no concern, then that is different. What if you get started and then it rains, and then maybe rains again. Just thinking out loud. Plus, I would not want the wear and tear on my mower, but maybe that is how you make a living. Lot's of variables and certainly your decision. Neither way is wrong. Just saying if it was me, and his machine is in good usable condition, there would be no question. Bob
 
(quoted from post at 07:47:02 05/05/15) Very true, but the same could happen to yours. It's certainly your call, but I started on a 160 acre field of CRP with an 8' mower a few years ago and said never again. That is why most here in KS that have much CRP bought the 15' or 20' mowers.

If time is no concern, then that is different. What if you get started and then it rains, and then maybe rains again. Just thinking out loud. Plus, I would not want the wear and tear on my mower, but maybe that is how you make a living. Lot's of variables and certainly your decision. Neither way is wrong. Just saying if it was me, and his machine is in good usable condition, there would be no question. Bob
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Yeah I put about 300 hours a year on my tractor and mower...so it is just another 24 hours in the seat. I've cut in rain with water running down my back and into my boots before, not my favorite, but sure feels good when I get home!
My rig.
 
$85 per hour . Use your 75 hp tractor and your 8 ft mower. Only one way to use his mower is with an iron clad hold harmless,bumper to bumper, on his mower.Cash price.
 
(quoted from post at 08:36:24 05/05/15) Why doesn"t he rent a 100 hp tractor and do it himself?
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Probably hard to find someone who would rent that size of tractor for a couple of days...
 
Nothing wrong with that set up at all. You'll know it far better than you do now if you use it..lol! Just curious, but does your 100hp tractor have a cab and AC/Radio? Hehe!

It all boils down to what you want to do, since you are doing it. Good luck with which ever route you go. Bob
 
If you cut 4 acres an hour you really have to moving right along. If the field is smooth you will probably be ok. I cut 80 acres CRP with a 15' Woods mower and it took just shy of 20 hours. That was fast enough for the condition of the field.
 
Hi
I think some of us are being cautious for a reason.It's his tractor or mower on the line, if he wants to mow 120 acres with it then fine, I have mowed big acres on the seed farm borders with 8 ft, you got to love your job those days.

if he used the guys mower he needs to cover potential loss or damage to his tractor,or problems with the mower that might bite him and cost him thousands, with the guy knowingly stitching him up or bad machine maitenence!. Lots of us have been round to long and seen this or had it happen before.
I had guys used to undercut me with brand new backhoes to get work( maybe the guys trying for cheap to). Their attitude was Warranty covered it if it broke, so they undercut more. Ok have at it I quit and left them to it. Yeah warranty was real good when they went charging into the job site with out looking to put on a "look at me show". Then drove over the old harrow laying in the grass, wrecking 4 new tires.
All of them then found they had to pay running costs and repairs Like he has to . loads of them found the machines gone to one morning when the repo guy came visiting.
There was a reason i ran an older machine like his outfit. I owned it and if it sat 12 months without moving nobody was coming for it or the keys.
Every job has potential for problems or major headaches. I learned some and will look at things figuring out the risk or if the guys genuine, and walk if I feel it's not right for my time or equipment now. He has to make that choice to exactly the same.
Regards Robert
 
If you have a ROTARY Bush Hog and he has a FLAIL, the flail will leave a much nicer looking job when done. I'm guessing that's the biggest reason he wants to have you use his flail. I have both and there's no comparison in the job they will do. It seems if you charge $75 / hour for a smaller tractor and mower maybe $80 / hour would be reasonable for a larger tractor using his mower. It will take more fuel and if a lot of tall weeds a 15' flail will make a 100 hp tractor work hard.
 
You know.... after having done some of those merciless jobs... I don't think you could pay me any amount of money to cut down the stuff you describe with a flail mower. You just couldn't. Between shafts wrapped up and the drum wrapped with crap... no way. Hog only for that stuff. If you know you're cutting 6" high grass that's a different story.
If you're still interested in dealing with his miserable mower, tell him 100/hour minimum, he's responsible for the mower and he's responsible for ALL flat tires. PERIOD. Hopefully the 'opportunity' will go away.
Any of these blasted jobs we do today is done with a hog and old 2WD tractor with cheap tires because you will get flats from thorns, trash and who knows what else that can't be seen.

Rod
 
I do hear what you are saying. It's fine to be cautious, and some of you were doing just that, being cautious. On the other hand, some were getting on the "Run, The Sky is Falling" soapbox.

I've been around a few years myself. With the information provided, it's pretty hard to give sound advice. The fellow could use the guys 15' mower and break his 100hp tractor down. He could use his smaller tractor and break both the tractor and mower.

There is an old saying that says something about: "IF" Your Aunt had certain PARTS, She Would be your Uncle..but that doesn't warrant telling someone things seem fishy and to run.. Just look at the best option, cover your rear, and do it!! Don't analyze it to death.

If the 15' mower looks to be usable, and the understanding is if it breaks it's on the owner of the 15' mower, then it's a no brainer. IMHO.

Now, I am in Central Kansas, and it definitely appears, from listening to stories on here for the last 17 years, that different parts of the country are not quite as friendly and helpful as most are here, so maybe he should just run and hide. I should probably take back my advice to do what makes the most sense. Bob
 
By the way, I'm not meaning these replies to be mean spirited, more so in humor. It's hard to remember that typing shows no emotions. Bob
 
That may be... but the experience protects me from going and looking for one. Unless you're talking about something of industrial capacity that uses chains...

Rod
 
When I have something built, my contractor likes doing a cost plus. I buy materials, he
charges for labor. It's a win/win for both of us. Consider a cost plus, he pays you for
your time/labor/tractor, he provides fuel and 15 ft mower. If mower is damaged it's his
fault for not having things marked in the field. I would think you both win.
 
(quoted from post at 12:09:39 05/05/15) Doesn't sound like you've ever used a good flail.
Click to expand...
Have you used a Bush Hog 3008? I've cut my lawn with mine before. The flail I have won't cut knapweed...
 
(quoted from post at 12:50:36 05/05/15) I would not want to do that many acres with an 8', no way.
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Well I talked to the guy and we decided to use my tractor and mower and see what I get done tomorrow and go from there. I told him I should be able to do it for $20 an acre. I guess we will see....I'll have to remember my camera and take some pics.
 
If he's going to make X$$$ an hour profit and he's happy with that then the longer the job lasts the better.The 100th hour doesn't put any more wear and tear than the 1st hr.
 
(
Well I talked to the guy and we decided to use my tractor and mower and see what I get done tomorrow and go from there. I told him I should be able to do it for $20 an acre. I guess we will see....I'll have to remember my camera and take some pics.
Click to expand...

With my Oliver 77 and a 7.5 foot Lilliston I can run 4 - 5 mph mowing fairly nasty stuff. I imagine with your much better equipment you would do much better depending on what the conditions are and what he expects the finished job to look like.

5 mph with an 8 foot mower is almost 5 acres an hour. I bet you can do much better.

Just for giggles I think you will fo 7.5 acres an hour using 4.5 gallon of fuel.
J
 
(quoted from post at 15:30:20 05/05/15)
(
Well I talked to the guy and we decided to use my tractor and mower and see what I get done tomorrow and go from there. I told him I should be able to do it for $20 an acre. I guess we will see....I'll have to remember my camera and take some pics.
Click to expand...

With my Oliver 77 and a 7.5 foot Lilliston I can run 4 - 5 mph mowing fairly nasty stuff. I imagine with your much better equipment you would do much better depending on what the conditions are and what he expects the finished job to look like.

5 mph with an 8 foot mower is almost 5 acres an hour. I bet you can do much better.

Just for giggles I think you will fo 7.5 acres an hour using 4.5 gallon of fuel.
J
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Well I put on sharp blades, checked the gearboxes, and greased everything up so I am ready to go. About half the field will be half mile long, so I should make good time there. There is a section of woods and the farmstead to cut around, so that will chop it up some and slow me down. I know I won't use over 3 gallons per hour....I've only had one day in the last 10 years where I had to refill the 20 gallon tank, those Perkins engines are pretty economical running at 1700 rpm.
 
After having more information I would modify my answer but you had left too much information out. Way too many people ask a question and leave out half of what we need to answer correctly. Don't think about length of post as some do and put in all information even if you think not needed.
 
Hi
For me the last part of your comment Doesn't come from being American, I got experience from another country where i was born, and seen many different regions of it to. Now I just happen to live in Canada and be a citizen.
If a guy travels or meets enough people during pleasure or business from say more than 2 county's over. Yes I have met the ones that think you need a passport to go further than that L.O.L. You find the not so nice guys are out there, and there are more than one or two around! . Some I have met would sell their Grandmas Head stone if they thought they'd make a buck or 2 on it!.
As you say he has to make the choice. Whats the worst that could happen, It goes south he posts that here if he's brave enough, and we all say "Told you that".
Regards Robert
 
(quoted from post at 14:14:27 05/05/15)
(quoted from post at 12:50:36 05/05/15) I would not want to do that many acres with an 8', no way.
Click to expand...

Well I talked to the guy and we decided to use my tractor and mower and see what I get done tomorrow and go from there. I told him I should be able to do it for $20 an acre. I guess we will see....I'll have to remember my camera and take some pics.
Click to expand...

Video from today

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az0t8WaLfXo&feature=youtu.be
 
(quoted from post at 22:58:11 05/06/15)
(


Video from today

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az0t8WaLfXo&feature=youtu.be
Click to expand...

It says private video when I try. How close was I on acres per hr?
J
Click to expand...

It should work now. I am struggling to get 4 acres an hour. The property is bisected by 2 access roads going north and south and a fence going east/west.....so the longest runs are only 1/4 mile. The stuff isn't that heavy, but the area I'm getting into today is full of mole hills and they are dry, hard and dusty! Good news is 10 hours on a tank of fuel :D
 
I was envisioning something much thicker. In this area unkempt ground turns into a jungle pretty fast.
Your mower does a nice job!

Them AC must be fuel misers!

I was thinking the other day just how amazing the amount of energy (work) is in a gallon of fuel be it gasoline or diesel.
J
 
(quoted from post at 14:18:23 05/07/15) I was envisioning something much thicker. In this area unkempt ground turns into a jungle pretty fast.
Your mower does a nice job!

Them AC must be fuel misers!

I was thinking the other day just how amazing the amount of energy (work) is in a gallon of fuel be it gasoline or diesel.
J
Click to expand...

Brush hogging is a trade-off...when it is dry and dusty it takes less fuel, when it is green, lush and no dust it takes more fuel.
Another 12.5 hours today, got the important stuff done so probably will take a break and finish on Tuesday. I finally got to the half mile section today and timed a round....12 minutes, 5 rounds per hour or 5 mph is all I am averaging. Of course there are a couple of steep hills which slow me down some and add to the total actual acreage...probably 45-50 acres left. Owner loves how it looks!
 
(quoted from post at 21:55:33 05/07/15)
(quoted from post at 14:18:23 05/07/15) I was envisioning something much thicker. In this area unkempt ground turns into a jungle pretty fast.
Your mower does a nice job!

Them AC must be fuel misers!

I was thinking the other day just how amazing the amount of energy (work) is in a gallon of fuel be it gasoline or diesel.
J
Click to expand...

Brush hogging is a trade-off...when it is dry and dusty it takes less fuel, when it is green, lush and no dust it takes more fuel.
Another 12.5 hours today, got the important stuff done so probably will take a break and finish on Tuesday. I finally got to the half mile section today and timed a round....12 minutes, 5 rounds per hour or 5 mph is all I am averaging. Of course there are a couple of steep hills which slow me down some and add to the total actual acreage...probably 45-50 acres left. Owner loves how it looks!
Click to expand...

Finished the job today. 33 hours, 3 days and a couple hours yesterday. No problems other than a flat on the front....no idea why as I haven't fixed it yet. Owner showed it to some Californians this morning....is very happy how it turned out!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wOJhdHVJPk&feature=youtu.be
 
(quoted from post at 21:08:00 05/12/15) Thanks for the summary Eldon. So you averaged a little under 4 acres an hr? Not bad. Nice looking place!
Jay
Click to expand...

Yes I was very happy with my average considering the wasted time I had with the cross fence and roads that broke up the big areas. I still have fuel left in my 75 gallon slip tank, so less than 75 gallons used in the tractor, probably used 20 gallons in the truck running back and forth, so less than $250 in fuel costs...or about 10% if the job.
 
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