Big propane companies sticking it to consumers

How much propane does a 20Lb grill bottle hold? 20 Lbs aka 4.7 gallons right? Wrong,well depending on where you refill/exchange,it might only hold 15Lbs or 4 gallons.
Here's the explaination (in Tx at least). All the convinuence stores and other bottle exchanges have 15Lbs of fuel in tanks. Their reason if asked is "because it's the law". "The law"came about because the Railway Commision forbids a truck to carry more than xxxx pounds of fuel in small bottles. Just so happens that if you fill every slot on truck with full bottles,it will be overweight. The solution,fill the bottles to 15 instead of 20 and you are on the money. Railway Commision rules override state and federal law. The mom and pop must fill bottles on site to 20Lbs to avoid deceptive trade pratice charges. End result is the consumer can exchange bottles cheaper than they can get refills which chips away at mom and pop's volume and profit. Slick ????

da.bees- Here in KY @ a 'Rhino' exchange, the sign on the front of the "cage" says the tank has 15 lbs. of propane. The price is $19.99 per tank with exchange. That works out to be $19.99/4=$4.9975 per gallon.

Whereas I can go 2/10 of a mile further to a Flying J and fill my tank @ $2.79/gal.....4.7gal X $2.79=$13.113 per tank.

A little less than $7.00 difference. I still go to the Mom & Pop because of convenience instead of having to wait for a guy come out and fill my tank then I have to take my ticket back in and wait in line to pay for it.

They reduced the amount of propane in the tank rather than going up on the price.
Happens all the time with many consumer items.


Quote............

How much propane does Blue Rhino put in its tanks?


Inflationary pressures, including the volatile costs of steel, diesel fuel, and propane, have had a significant impact on the cylinder exchange industry. In 2008, to help control these rising costs, Blue Rhino followed the example of other consumer products companies with a product content change. We reduced the amount of propane in our tanks from 17 pounds to 15 pounds.

To ensure our consumers are properly notified, Blue Rhino clearly marks the amount of propane contained in our tanks, right on the package.

I also forgot to add....Mom & Pop ain't losing any money at gaining almost $7.00 per tank (I know there is rent, fees and surcharges to add to that).

I don't think Mom & Pop are losing money on that situation.

Greg,I am referring to a small individually owned propane company who delivers gas to customers when I said "mom and pop".

John,the 15Lbs IS "right there on the package"but the majority of consumers are still unaware of it. My point is that individually owned Lp gas companies are being systematicly eliminated and the results do not favor consumers. If a private owner decided one day to start putting 2/3rds capacity and put snazzy jackets on tanks,they would have been bankrupted fighting charges filed by attorney general.

da.bees- You stated 20lb. tanks in your original post. What Mom & Pop store delivers 20lb. tanks? or even 15lb. tanks?

Pretty simple the 20 pounder became the new 15 pounder.P.S. There is space left in the top of the ceral box they didn't fill it completely either.They are telling you how much is in the tank right?

I just exchanged my tank last week. There was no label on the tank. Only yellow caution tape on the valve.

Last time I went to local re-fill station I asked about this and was told that's how they didn't raise price .

(quoted from post at 23:17:52 03/31/15) How much propane does a 20Lb grill bottle hold? 20 Lbs aka 4.7 gallons right? Wrong,well depending on where you refill/exchange,it might only hold 15Lbs or 4 gallons.
Here's the explaination (in Tx at least). All the convinuence stores and other bottle exchanges have 15Lbs of fuel in tanks. Their reason if asked is "because it's the law". "The law"came about because the Railway Commision forbids a truck to carry more than xxxx pounds of fuel in small bottles. Just so happens that if you fill every slot on truck with full bottles,it will be overweight. The solution,fill the bottles to 15 instead of 20 and you are on the money. Railway Commision rules override state and federal law. The mom and pop must fill bottles on site to 20Lbs to avoid deceptive trade pratice charges. End result is the consumer can exchange bottles cheaper than they can get refills which chips away at mom and pop's volume and profit. Slick ????

Click to expand...

Please fill me in on what the "Railway Commission" is, what branch of gov't they are, what they have to do with trucking and how their word trumps State or Federal law.

No matter how loudly they shout it from the rooftops or how big the lettering is on the tanks, there will always be people who pay no attention, so this will be "news" to them. They will be outraged. They will be mad. They will post rants on forums.

So-called "20lb" propane tanks can only legally be filled to 80% capacity, or 16lbs. This is to allow for expansion due to temperature change. It has been this way for a long long time. Any propane supplier that puts the full 20lbs in your tank is violating the law and sending you home with a potential bomb.

Some people will try to claim that 20lb *IS* the 80% capacity of the tank. A 20lb propane tank is only 5 gallons in volume. 5 gallons of propane is 20lbs. That adds up to 100% to me.

Around here Rhino and Amerigas supply the 20# consumer market. The jugs have a plastic sleeve that they put around the side of the bottle and at the bottom of that label it is clearly marked 15#. If you go to the trouble of going to your propane retailer, in my case who supplies my house, who is about 40 miles round trip.....special trip, not combined with other shopping, and be there between 8 and 9 am Mon-Fri, you can get your 20# but you might still pay #4.50 a gallon like it costs you at the convenience outlet.

Mark

I have watched them fill my tanks, and some of them will hold 20 pounds, it all depends on the opd valve. They are probably made in china like everything else and not very consistent! I think 20 pounds is 80% capacity. Like someone else said, reducing the weight is a way of raising the price.

5 gallons at 80% is 4 gallons to be full
4 gallons times 4.2 lbs per gallon is 16.8 lbs to be full
So they just fill the tank with 17 lbs of propane and call it full.

Filling with 15 lbs of propane is shorting you 2 lbs of propane or almost 1/2 a gallon on each tank.

What I want to know is how do the blue rhino and other propane "retailers" get away with filling bottles that are past and in some cases way way past their expiration date. I take mine to the local filling station and get them completely filled with 4.7 gallons for usually around 2.49/gal. However, once a tank reaches 12 yrs of age they will no longer fill them and always say just take it over to chinamart and exchange it for a blue rhino then when it runs out bring it back to us. Problem I have had is the last couple times I did this I ended up with a bottle that was even more out of date than the one I just exchanged!!!! Couple months ago this happened so I went to exchange and when I looked at the bottle they gave me it had a date of 1992 on it!!! So my question is how can they fill/transport/sell a bottle that has not been certified for 11 years when it is illegal for the little guy to fill one that has been out of certification for 11 days???

Have you ever thought of refusing an outdated tank? If you are doing it at a self serve with a credit card you can't, but if there is
an attendant there I would refuse it if I remembered to look!

the government required OPD valves to prevent cylinders from being overfilled. yes many companies were overfilling 20lb cylinders and causing accidents. the OPD valve is just a simple float on the valve which shuts off the gas when it reaches the 80% level. the law required that the valve could not allow over 80% in the tank by volume, but most tanks are filled by weight because propane expands and contracts with the temperature. the OPD valve would shut off at 80%, but when the propane was hot,80 degrees and above, there would only be 19.5 lbs of propane in the cylinder. some consumer group found this out and sued the large cylinder refillers for cheating the public. you cannot put 19.5lbs in a cylinder and call it 20lbs and you cannot fill it over 80%. the answer was these tanks are now called simply gas grill cylinders and as long as the weight of the propane in the tank is at least as much as is stated on the label or cylinder cabinet and not filled over 80% everthing is legal. 15lbs is the norm for the big refillers. the cylinder can be over 12years old if it has had a new valve installed and has been recertified. most states require you to be licenced to do the recertification. yes your mom and pop stores can still fill your cylinder with 19.5 or 20lbs. help keep them in business. government regulation is forcing more and more propane dealers to sell out to the big major companies every year.

"the cylinder can be over 12years old if it has had a new valve installed and has been recertified."

I understand that and that is what I was saying, the tanks given to me at the chinamart were not recertified, had a year of 92 still stamped in the top so how do they get away with refilling them.


As for refusing it I didn't realize it until I got it back to the car and by then the guy had already gone back into the store. The other thing is some people might say you were being a bit hypocritical if you refused a bottle because it was older than 12 yrs from certification when the whole reason you are there is to stick them with a bottle over 12 yrs old!

2 places still fill 20# bottles in town first one on a scale 20# plus the bottle.....next back the screw off on the bottom of the valve fill until propane is coming out the screw hole.. both are $1.00 per #

(quoted from post at 06:16:10 04/01/15) No matter how loudly they shout it from the rooftops or how big the lettering is on the tanks, there will always be people who pay no attention, so this will be "news" to them. They will be outraged. They will be mad. They will post rants on forums.

So-called "20lb" propane tanks can only legally be filled to 80% capacity, or 16lbs. This is to allow for expansion due to temperature change. It has been this way for a long long time. Any propane supplier that puts the full 20lbs in your tank is violating the law and sending you home with a potential bomb.

Some people will try to claim that 20lb *IS* the 80% capacity of the tank. A 20lb propane tank is only 5 gallons in volume. 5 gallons of propane is 20lbs. That adds up to 100% to me.

Click to expand...

Not true. A 20 pound tank is designed to legally hold 20 pounds of propane. If it could only hold 16 pounds, it would be called... well, a 16 pound tank. But it dont so it isnt, its called a 20 pounder because it holds 20 pounds.

While the "new" OPD valves have fogged the issue by sometimes not allowing the correct amount of propane in a tank, the truth is on the collar of the tank. Along with manufactor date, there are a bunch of other stampings. TW is the important one, refering to Tare Weight. WW is also important, showing the total amount of water weight that can fit in the tank. Bottom line, the tanks hold 20 pounds of propane...

http://www.orangecoat.com/the-truth-about-filling-20-lb-bbq-grill-propane-tanks

http://www.propane101.com/propanecylinderfilling.htm