Removeing a broken bolt

john in la · Feb 11, 2015

Guy takes his class 8 truck into a local shop to have some work done to the Cummings.

Do not know for sure what they were doing but they had to take the exhaust manifold off to do the job.

Mechanic breaks 3 bolts off trying to get manifold off; then breaks off a easy out in one of the bolts. Bolts are broken off below the flat surface of the head.

Shop tells owner he needs to replace heads as they can not get broken bolts out. Might as well do a inframe while we got the heads off.

Not wanting to spend this kind of money the owner has the truck towed to the shop where we get our trucks fixed.

I asked the mechanic "Why would you take on such a job." He says I can get the broken bolts out. I'm thinking yea right; maybe you need to look at that broken easy out in that one bolt.

He gets out this special welding rod and sticks it in the hole with the broken bolt with a easy out in it. Puts a tack on end of bolt. Lets it cool and tacks the end again building the bolt up to where it sticks out the side of the head than welds a nut on the end.

I'm thinking you got real problems now cause all you did was weld the bolt into the head permanently.

He takes a hammer. Whacks the nut sharply; then takes a socket and breaker bar and backs the broken bolt out.

If I had not seen it with my own eyes I never would have believed it.
He said the ceramic flux protects the threads from damage.

Any of you guys ever use/seen these kind of rods before. I assume they are not cheap.

rrlund · Feb 11, 2015

Never have. I just weld a flat washer to a bolt like that. You have plenty of surface on the inside of it. Then weld a nut to the washer by welding on the outside of the nut. The heat from welding will loosen them up. Never had one I couldn't get out that way.

Bob · Feb 11, 2015

Could have just blown 'em out with an oxy-accet torch.

BT,DT.

Robert Major · Feb 11, 2015

Hi I have never had one i couldn't get out somehow. The easy out is my last option for most bolts for the snap off reason. I got the fancy expensive set with LH drills in here and used them maybe 3 times in 4 years owning them.

I heard of those rods in something like farm show magazine probably 10 years ago. They looked interesting but never did buy any.

There was a kit of different sized NASA space type ceramic dowels, for welding up busted out holes in castings, and keeping the repair round and the right size. That was advertised around the same time. Never got those either and haven't seen them since.
Regards Robert

john in la · Feb 11, 2015

Welding a flat washer or nut to the bolt is out of the question.

The bolts were broke off down in the hole below the surface of the head.
You first have to build the length of the bolt to where it sticks out the side of the head; all the while not messing up the threads.

Dieseltech · Feb 11, 2015

I have some welding rods rods called stud pull, I think sold by Duratrode that I've had good luck getting out broken hardware with. The flux on the rod protects the hole threads if broken below flush too. First time I saw it work was on some broken turbo exhaust housing bolts, told the guy that was demonstrating I want some of those rods!

Mike in Mn. · Feb 11, 2015

I have done that different times, years ago with a 6011 rod and now with the wire feed, seems the weld will stick to the bolt and not the cast, never had one I couldn't fix. Pulled broken off rocker studs that way and broken off spark plugs in cast heads by welding a bolt to the broken off plug, never even messed up the threads.

GeneMO · Feb 11, 2015

Not bragging, but I have probably done that a dozen or more times over the years. No special rod. 6013 or whatever I had handy.

Gene

fixerupper · Feb 11, 2015

John thanks for posting about this. I've removed many broken off studs that were flush or slightly recessed by welding a nut on but I've neve known you can successfully weld on one that's broken off down deep. You learn something new every day.

JD Seller · Feb 11, 2015

I had never heard of these type of arc welding rod. I Goggled the name listed below. They are interesting for sure. I could not find anything about pricing over the Internet.

Here is a video of a fellow demonstrating them.
Stud pull electrode by Duratrode

Christopher Mikesell · Feb 11, 2015

That is a neat product. I have removed broken off bolts and sheet metal screws numerous times by building them up with weld and welding a washer and nut on top of them. However, the surest way is to just throw the part on a mill, locate the center of the hole, and drill out the bolt. You can then use a tap to peel out the steel helix which is left behind. If you do a careful job of locating the hole, then you have practically no chance of damaging the threads.

john in la · Feb 11, 2015

"If you do a careful job of locating the hole"

That is the part that is above my pay grade.

bison · Feb 11, 2015

(quoted from post at 19:45:07 02/11/15) Guy takes his class 8 truck into a local shop to have some work done to the Cummings.

Do not know for sure what they were doing but they had to take the exhaust manifold off to do the job.

Mechanic breaks 3 bolts off trying to get manifold off; then breaks off a easy out in one of the bolts. Bolts are broken off below the flat surface of the head.

Shop tells owner he needs to replace heads as they can not get broken bolts out. Might as well do a inframe while we got the heads off.

Not wanting to spend this kind of money the owner has the truck towed to the shop where we get our trucks fixed.

I asked the mechanic "Why would you take on such a job." He says I can get the broken bolts out. I'm thinking yea right; maybe you need to look at that broken easy out in that one bolt.

[b:1a47bd884b]He gets out this special welding rod and sticks it in the hole with the broken bolt with a easy out in it. Puts a tack on end of bolt. Lets it cool and tacks the end again building the bolt up to where it sticks out the side of the head than welds a nut on the end.[/b:1a47bd884b]

I'm thinking you got real problems now cause all you did was weld the bolt into the head permanently.

[b:1a47bd884b]He takes a hammer. Whacks the nut sharply; then takes a socket and breaker bar and backs the broken bolt out.[/b:1a47bd884b]

If I had not seen it with my own eyes I never would have believed it.
He said the ceramic flux protects the threads from damage.

Any of you guys ever use/seen these kind of rods before. I assume they are not cheap.

have done that a couple times with just a 1714 rod,..You need a steady hand and be sure not to hit the bore side.Worked OK on the ones i did,. 5/8" bolts and up

4play · Feb 12, 2015

What is a Cummings?

bill mart · Feb 12, 2015

any idea where the duratrode rods can be purchased? thanks, bill

ObsoElitist · Feb 12, 2015

I've done it with my MIG welder, using short bursts to build a stack in the center of the hole

vscummins · Feb 12, 2015

Done many a broken bolt that was broken off below the hole just buy welding a nut about twice the diameter of the broken bolt onto the old bolt and then stick an Ide cube on the end of the welded nut and they back right out.

vscummins · Feb 12, 2015

Here's one I did it was a set screw on a steering shaft I had red loctited it thinking I would never have to take it out

Ian Beale · Feb 12, 2015

John,

A neighbour introduced me to this type of fix a while ago. He will go deep down in a thread hole - I'm not that good without more practice.

His formula is stainless rods, you get the puddle white hot and build up to where you can weld a nut on. So long as you centre the puddle the flux protects the threads.

Then, after a abundant coat of your favouite lube fixer he hooks on the nut and rocks until you feel it give. Then keep rocking till it frees.

It retrieved the roller thread bars in our FA 10, which had been around salt water.

Ian Beale · Feb 12, 2015

I should have added nothing special in stainless rods for this job either

MarkB_MI · Feb 12, 2015

John, there's a typo in your post. The first word of the third line should be spelled B-U-T-C-H-E-R.

Dieseltech · Feb 12, 2015

I've called 972 438 0307 to get more, think it's a Texas #

jimg.allentown · Feb 12, 2015

Guys like that so-called "mechanic" make me furious. He escalated the job from removing a manifold to an engine overhaul over a couple of broken bolts. ARGHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!
He should have been tarred and feathered, run out of town on a rail, and forbidden to ever pretend to be a mechanic again!

Imagine being that poor customer, and going from a relatively simple repair job to an engine overhaul - with that idiot licking his chops after damaging another man's property through his incompetence, and then trying to rob the guy to cover it up. There oughta be a law!

jimg.allentown · Feb 12, 2015

Why would you insult an honorable tradesman like a butcher by comparing to that idiot??? Hmmm...I think I just insulted idiots.......

moresmoke · Feb 12, 2015

Really not that hard to do once you've done a few. My preference is a wire welder for the job. In cast the weld wont stick anyway. Build up the stud/bolt till its flush, weld a washer on then a nut. I got a lot of practice years ago removing manifold studs from 3406 Cat heads. The studs were hard so you couldn't drill them out.

glennster · Feb 12, 2015

friend of mine showed me them a while back. he works for a ford heavy truck dealer. they usd a lot of them on the big gas engines in the light/meduim trucks. they had a problem with manifold bolts breaking off on the 460's. the parts dept has a ford part number for the welding rod. slicker n snot!!

john in la · Feb 12, 2015

I can understand breaking off the bolts. Everyone has done it.
I can even understand the mechanic having problems getting the broken bolts out.

But that is where the problems should end and the shop foreman/owner of shop should step in and fix the problem.

Knowing what I know now; for the shop owner to tell the guy he needs to replace the heads is ridicules.
But as one that has worked as a mechanic in the past; I would have thought once he broke the easy out off in the bolt (down in the bolt hole)he was SOL for getting that bolt out.

At a place I use to work we used this original shop. I never did like their work but you go where the boss tells you to go.

bill mart · Feb 12, 2015

thanks, bill

jimg.allentown · Feb 12, 2015

I spent a good number of years working as a mechanic. Escalating a job from a couple of broken bolts to an engine overhaul is something that offends me beyond reason. There is only one way to describe it - theft to cover up incompetence. I would have had the guy reported to the state's consumer affairs agency, as well as the state's attorney general's office. This is one of those things that keeps me fixing or at least advising my friends and family when it comes to car repairs.

farmboy48 · Feb 12, 2015

I must have led a protected life, have never seen broken studs/bolts removed by these procedures. But, I have several old engines laying in iron pile, think I will purposely break a few bolts off, and practice doing this, sounds like a challenge. kind of like the above post about doing something just because you can.

Dick ND

37chief · Feb 12, 2015

Bob. I have had done that a lot of times also. Stan

ObsoElitist · Feb 12, 2015

While I am not defending the alleged "mechanic", I have had a few occasions where pulling the head was the smart way to go. Particularly with 70s and 80s 4x4 Ford F250s with a 460 and few un-broken exhaust manifild bolts. No room to work there. I cut my teeth as a mechanic in a VW shop where broken exhaust studs was a daily occurance.

black · Feb 12, 2015

Yap , that method always works well for me, or heat and quench a couple of times . I have never had any luck with easy - outs .

Larry -- Ont .

Bob · Feb 13, 2015

Yep, not NEARLY so much drama, and NO bolt. And QUICK.

Removeing a broken bolt

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