MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
for gold dropped below USD $1200 today for the first time since 2010. How low will it go?*
*Answer: A lot lower yet.
*Answer: A lot lower yet.
- Thread starter MarkB_MI
- Start date
Paul from MI
Well-known Member
Good time to listen to those radio & TV ads. NOT!!
What is so perplexing about commidity price fluxuations? Be it corn, gold, oil, lead, lumber, orange juice, you name it, if something is traded on the free and open market the price will be affected by external forces and good old supply and demand. The fact that so many people such as yourself cannot understand these basic economic realities explains a lot about the state of the nation.
http://goldswitzerland.com/will-this-save-the-swiss-financial-system/
On November 30th the Swiss will vote on:
Returning their national gold which is held abroad back to Switzerland
Requiring the Swiss National Bank to hold 20% of their assets in physical gold
Prohibiting further gold sales
They better hope that their gold isn't being "held" by the US Federal Reserve or they might not get it back.
http://www.mining.com/germans-give-up-on-getting-back-their-gold-held-in-us-45305/
The Germans wanted their gold back in the country, too. The Fed holds 300 tons of it, but has only shipped 5 tons back to Germany in 18 months.
I sure wish a trustworthy Congressman or Senator (if there is such a thing) could get into Ft Knox and see if US gold is still in the vault.
BillL
Bruce from Can.
Well-known Member
- Location
- Woodville, Ontario, Canada
Only thing "Different" is , new crop of suckers that don't know or believe history . Add in "We won't let it happen this time"
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Gold ALWAYS beats any short term effort to to control its real value.Took 20 new US Fed Reserve Notes in 1913 to buy an ounce of Gold it takes 1200 of them to buy an ounce of Gold now with all the efforts to control the price of Gold.Controlling the price hasn't worked too well over the long haul. The Fed is still printing them at full speed
only a matter of time,actually the time is here.Priced groceries lately?
only a matter of time,actually the time is here.Priced groceries lately?
OP
OP
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
Well, TF, if you're so sure it's going to go back up, this is your big opportunity to stock up on gold to add to the collection under your mattress.
As for me, I don't speculate in commodities. But if I did I would be shorting gold big time.
As for me, I don't speculate in commodities. But if I did I would be shorting gold big time.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Actually all paper moneys are the commodities and Gold is the real Money that has stood the test of time. rarely does any form of paper money last over 100 years and the Bell is Tolling for US Federal Reserve Notes.On the other hand Gold has been the way wealth has been transferred since the beginning of recorded history.Why do you think all countries want to own Gold and owning it is such a big deal?
Have you ever heard of a situation where other countries will tell a country in financial trouble
"We won't take your Gold but we'll take your paper money you print up"? Such a statement would be totally crazy but Americans every day are saying it by holding inflated US Dollars.
Have you ever heard of a situation where other countries will tell a country in financial trouble
"We won't take your Gold but we'll take your paper money you print up"? Such a statement would be totally crazy but Americans every day are saying it by holding inflated US Dollars.
I think you're confused about what a 'commodity' actually is...
While you argue that we always go back to gold after fiat currencies fail... I could equally point out that we always go back to fiat currencies after gold proves itself to be a useless system of trade. Right now, I think if you're keeping score... you'll find that fiat currency is ahead by one.
Rod
While you argue that we always go back to gold after fiat currencies fail... I could equally point out that we always go back to fiat currencies after gold proves itself to be a useless system of trade. Right now, I think if you're keeping score... you'll find that fiat currency is ahead by one.
Rod
OP
OP
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
Rod, in theory what you're saying is 100 percent true. In practice, not so much, as any commodities trader who has had a margin call can tell you.
OP
OP
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
SS, you're asking "why did gold drop to $1200/oz from a peak of $1800/oz only a few years ago?". You should first ask the question "why did it get to $1800 when for twenty years it traded below $500?". Answer that second question and you'll have the answer to the first.
OP
OP
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
Simple fact: there is not enough gold in existence to operate the world's economy. The gold standard is not coming back, despite the insistence of yourself and others to the contrary.
If you were a "traditional farmer" back in the 1890s, you would definitely NOT be a fan of the gold standard.
If you were a "traditional farmer" back in the 1890s, you would definitely NOT be a fan of the gold standard.
That could very well be true. I do not pretend to be up on the ins and outs of commodity trading... The only things I can tell you with certainty at this moment is that some day I will die... and I will not be buying gold any time soon, no matter what the price drops to...
Rod
Rod
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OP
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
>So...why did it go up and then drop?
Simplest explanation: Precious metals, gold in particular, are an index of fear and uncertainty. In 2008-2009, we had the biggest financial crisis since 1929. Markets don't react instantaneously, which is why prices continued to rise after the worst of the crisis was over. Now gold prices are responding to several consecutive years of continuing improvement in the economy, meaning less fear and uncertainty. Will prices drop to pre-2009 levels? Nobody knows.
Yes, there are plenty of other explanations, but you'll have a hard time correlating them with actual facts.
Simplest explanation: Precious metals, gold in particular, are an index of fear and uncertainty. In 2008-2009, we had the biggest financial crisis since 1929. Markets don't react instantaneously, which is why prices continued to rise after the worst of the crisis was over. Now gold prices are responding to several consecutive years of continuing improvement in the economy, meaning less fear and uncertainty. Will prices drop to pre-2009 levels? Nobody knows.
Yes, there are plenty of other explanations, but you'll have a hard time correlating them with actual facts.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
How do you figure that since the US Federal Reserve Notes have lost around 97% of their value since they were first issued in 1913?
1 oz Gold 1913=$20 Fed notes
1 oz Gold 2014=$1200 Fed notes
1 oz Gold 1913=$20 Fed notes
1 oz Gold 2014=$1200 Fed notes
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
Paper money is fine as long as its pegged to something like Gold where more can't be printed unless the amount of Gold is increased the result is if the country issuing the money increases productivity then its paper increases in value but there is always a base to fall back on.Just the opposite now an infinite amount of Fiat money can be conjured up on the Feds Computer screen at a moments notice and that destroys the value of money people have in hand.Thats just what is happening the Fed pumps Billions of conjured money into the
economy every month and basically its gone two different places 1)to buy US debt directly and indirectly and to inflate the stock market to give the illusion of economic prosperity when in actually the average person working for a living is loosing ground because of the it as prices rise and their savings are worth less.US Gov't roughly spends 1 Trillion$ more every year than
it takes in or more than the economy is actually producing and prints most of the rest to make up the difference.Its been tried many times before by many countries thru history and it has NEVER worked so there is no reason to think the results will be any different this time around.
economy every month and basically its gone two different places 1)to buy US debt directly and indirectly and to inflate the stock market to give the illusion of economic prosperity when in actually the average person working for a living is loosing ground because of the it as prices rise and their savings are worth less.US Gov't roughly spends 1 Trillion$ more every year than
it takes in or more than the economy is actually producing and prints most of the rest to make up the difference.Its been tried many times before by many countries thru history and it has NEVER worked so there is no reason to think the results will be any different this time around.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
You can bet the farm that most of the Gold that is supposed to be held in the USA by the Gov't and the Fed is long gone and the scam can't go on forever and when the cats out the bag the price of Gold will skyrocket.
OP
OP
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
TF, if you think any country, let alone the US, will return to a gold standard, you are delusional.
Traditional Farmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- Virginia
When the currency a country prints becomes worthless to the rest of the world which has happened numerous times like is happening in Argentina right now then Gold is the only form of payment other countries will accept.Since the US imports many vital products from other countries we'll sink to 3rd World status without Gold when the Dollar Bubble Bust comes.
Actually, that notion is patently false. There are any number of situations throughout history where items other than gold were readily traded between nations that did not have currency to trade with. One prominent example was the Lend-Lease agreement between the United States and great Britain at the outset of WWII. The US supplied a portion of it's navy to the UK in exchange for long term leases on bases on UK holdings throughout the world... this being done because the UK at that point had no more money to pay with.
In a situation such as Argentina, I'm sure they could pay with corn, soybeans, beef, etc. There's no need for it to pay with gold...
Rod
In a situation such as Argentina, I'm sure they could pay with corn, soybeans, beef, etc. There's no need for it to pay with gold...
Rod
OP
OP
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
TF, are you suggesting that Argentina is paying for its imports with gold? I doubt it. Most likely they are paying with US greenbacks. And should the dollar become worthless, then the financial markets will switch to whatever currency happens to be solid: Euros, Pounds Sterling, Bitcoins or maybe even Loonies.
FWIW, Argentina's current problems stem less from its monetary policies than from its willingness to default on debt obligations. That's a mistake the US Congress nearly made in 2011 and again in 2013.
FWIW, Argentina's current problems stem less from its monetary policies than from its willingness to default on debt obligations. That's a mistake the US Congress nearly made in 2011 and again in 2013.
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