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Time to make some decisions

B

Bret4207

Well-known Member
The time has come for me to either modernize a bit or get out of farming. I've been running junk other people labeled "worn out" for years. Lost the wobble box in my little 7 foot haybine the other day, there's something hitting hard in my ancient NH 68, the belts on my equally ancient Hesston 5500 round baler are so full of dutchmen they speak with an accent, my rakes are just pitiful and my tedder is making me pull out what little hair I have left. Truth is I need to put more stock on the place to keep the pastures down and to help bring them back, but I can't stock it heavier if I can't put up hay when it's ready. I already lost the better part of 2 weeks of good haying weather because of breakdowns. And I really, REALLY need some sheltered area to work on stuff in the winter. All that stops me from doing this is money and fear of debt. A newer, larger haybine, a decent baler with a kicker, some kicker wagons (although those I can borrow for now), a better, more reliable rake, either new belts or a newer round baler that will do silage bales...that would make life a lot easier...a LOT easier. Tractors I'm okay on, but I need to make a decision on the other stuff. SWMBO wants me to modernize. I'm torn. I don't want to stop farming, but I've got to get at least to breaking even over time.

Guess I'm just venting.
 
I have been in the same boat. I don't borrow money for
machinery so I end up buying something and reworking it until
it works well. Then I am still left with something I may not find
a part for down the road. A while back one of the neighbors
had a meet and greet for a lady running for house of reps. She
asked me how we could get more young people into farming (I
am 39). I told her that we all either remember the 80's very
well or were preached to about them. Farmers (most) coming
in today are the opposite of the rest of society - we are scared
to death of debt. When the bank comes calling they will only
get land and the new pickup. I will still be able to farm. As
much as it pains me to say it, borrow a little and get a new
piece of equipment. Don't go overboard. Just newer and nicer.
Pay it down and do it again. It is time for me to start thinking
about a newer tractor. I suppose I will borrow to get it.
 
The items you are needing are not that expensive if you shop
around a bit.
1) haybine- I found a New Holland 488 on craigs list for my
neighbor that looks ok, but cuts excellent for $800. If your
budget allows more, very nice looking and operating machines
can be had for $2,000.
2) rake- good 5 bar side delivery rakes can be had for as little
as $500 for an off brand like New Idea or Ford. I bought one in
excellent shape for $750 that works great. Even a NewHolland
56 or 256 in good shape can be had for $1,000 if you look
around a little. Or if you go v-rake, good used is around $2,000
and new can be had for just over $3,000 on fall close outs on
dealer lots.
3) baler- square baler like a John Deere 336 in good condition
is around $2500-$3500 and should have a good kicker for that
higher price. Round baler, with a little shopping, $2,000 will get
you a usable machine, $4000-$5,000 will get you a very
dependable baler.
4) Tedder- not a lot of experience in buying these machines,
but I do have one, a john deere 4 basket that I bought the
middle of June a few years back during a moment of
desperation to get hay dry. Local Deere dealer had it as a two
year old trade in machine, looked like new yet. Paid $2200 for
it and it was money well spent. I'm guessing you may find one
a little cheaper if you looked around a little.
So, with record high cattle prices, and in my area of Mn, grass
hay price at $150-$200 a ton for the past few years, I think
investing some money into something you like to do that is
paying back very well right now is a good decision.
I'd be willing to bet $10,000 spent on updating equipment will
pay back very we'll for you.
 
I know. I have "followed the carrot" for 40 some years chasing the next better piece of equipment. I have paid a boat load of interest to banks. How much deceint hay can you buy with the money you will make payments on equip? Are there any ways that you can extend your grazing season on both ends to lessen you dependance on hay? Can you ride out the payments "IF" the cattle prices go down? Good luck.
 
Drum will mow circles around your 7 foot haybind. I have a 7footer - every thing they say about them is pretty much true. Last field I. Did find some stuff so heavy I wanted to shift down a gear, but I was still moving faster than with previous equipment. And no clogs!
 
Don't let the bad times get you down. It happens to me too.
When things don't go right, I threaten to sell what I have and
move on. Then I think about it and realize there's nothing else
I'd rather do to eat up my free time. I don't know if you're a
full-time guy or like me. I think of what i do as a hobby that
pays for itself. That's how I decide how much I'm going to
spend on equipment from year to year. At least you have
equipment. I always keep my eyes open and if I come across
something that's an upgrade over what I have and it's
affordable, I'll pounce on it. As much as I'd like to buy new,
it's just not an option for me.
 
Livestock pay, equipment costs, that is not to say that you don't need equipment to keep livestock but the point is to make money your investment should be roughly 70/30 in favor of livestock. The pastures that need grazing now could be stocked with calves for fall sale or cull cows bought in thin condition and grazed up a grade or two, I have never lost money grazing sale barn cows but this year it reallty paid off because the whole market improved. What is your business plan, hay to sell, cow/calf or other livestock or a combination of both? Selling hay is probably the lowest real margin farming enterprise there is for the majority of people who try it, first off, hay is a crop that removes from your soil 100% of the nutrients required to grow it and therefore you are selling the fertility of your soil in every bale, that fertility has to be replaced which means expensive commercial fertilizer has to be bought evry year or multi times per year. Grazing livestock return roughly 80% of the consumed nutrients back to the soil. Unless you are in an area with a commodity hay market, such as dairies or feedlots it is hard to come out because those operators expect high feed value and pay for the feed value unlike the average horse or goat owner who basically wants the best hay in the world for nothing, plus you load it for them. Even if you are only making hay for your own use you should try to make as little as possible, every mouth full of grass harvested by an animal makes you money two ways, it saves on harvest and grows meat or milk. Cattle and grass equal profit in any market.
 
Kinda wonder if some of these big guys are going to fall on their faces like in the 80's. Interest rates are no where near as nuts, but these guys are spending $8000-9000/acre and running all brand new equipment on it. I know there's more to it than what I see, but you have to think the $2.75 corn and $8 beans some people are predicting would make it awfully hard to pay those bills. Especially if it went on for a few seasons.
 
My late dad made that decisions back in 1954 when my brother and I were in the military. He had a degree in agriculture and got out of farming. Went to work for a chemical company until he retired, then sold real estate. He's in the bottom row third from the right. My nephew has the home they purchased. Hal
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Sit down and put some pencil to paper. Your equipment may be junk, but it is still worth something. Even scrap brings something. NH 630 balers can be found cheap and will do silage. A "newer" 30 year old NH square baler can be had for a couple thousand. Three point hitch disc mowers are reasonable used. If you can find someone to wrap your hay then you don't need a tedder. Get a mower,rake and baler and go the high moisture route. You really just need to get a game plan and start plugging away at it. I was in your spot 11 years ago...Now all I need is one tractor yet and I am in pretty good shape.
 
Bret, I started farming (or back into it) in 1973
with a tractor, plows, disc and wagon. I helped a
couple of neighbors in exchange for the equipment
I needed until mine built up. Not to say I didn't
make some boneheaded decisions, but, one step at a
time, my equipment is now all pretty good. Go to
sales- especially bankruptcy and estate. When
other farmers are busy, like hay season and
planting season, hit the auctions hard. There's
less competition for the better stuff. Always
remember- new paint is cheaper than new iron.
There is a lot of almost new machinery around that
will be cheap if you wait long enough and hit the
right sale. So stock your money, or talk to Farm
Credit about a line of credit for machinery as you
buy it, so you don't have to pay for it right
away. And remember- a decent machine may cost $10
K now, but spread over 10 or 20 years of life
becomes a good and cheap tool.
 
Much of the high priced land bought by farmers the last few years was paid for in cash with windfall profits that would have otherwise sat in a bank at 1% or less, machinery purchases and leases are tax deductions without equal. Large scale row crop farming is strictly and simply, cash flow, just like any other production or commodity enterprise, those guys know almost to the penny what they will gross every crop because they irrigate, fertilize to production goals forward contract, hedge etc. There is very little guesswork left these days and what few variables which are unknown or uncontrollable are insured against.
 
How old are you? Can you afford to quit?

Sounds like you've been agonizing over this for a while. No
debt is best but good debt needs to be incurred to make
money.

Buying tools used to make money is good debt. Buying cars
boats & toys is bad debt.
 
One piece at a time is all I can say. Try to replace one a year and always be looking for bargains.
 
Bret - I agree, go one piece at a time. There's a
LOT to be said for new - reliable equipment. But
I'd keep your old stuff as backup. You always
need backup, no matter how good your equipment may
be.

First, I'd take a serious look at drum mowers.

Relatively inexpensive, even brand new, and from
what I read, fairly reliable, cheap to repair, and
work pretty well.

I'm still on the fence about them myself because
I'm not sure about not having a conditioner like a
disc/hay bine. But I've talked to some people in
this area that love them... So, I can't say you
should buy one, but at least research it as I am.

To replace a 7' haybine with one shouldn't cost
you TOO much - and you should then be able to cut
faster, and very reliably.

Would love to hear other's opinions on them here.

If you can't cut, you're dead. And if you can't
bale you're dead. Simple as that.

So after getting a good cutter - I'd look at
improving the baler situation.

Of couse raking and tedding IS very important as
well - but... if completely DESPERATE you can at
least sort of ted with a rake, and you could
theoretically bale without raking if you
absolutely had to. So I'd put those purchases
off till later.

That's assuming all equipment is equally near
death. Obviously if one item is causing the most
trouble, replace that first.

And - assuming you've got a good reliable tractor.
 
Best time to buy a boat is during a blizzard, best time to buy a snowmobile is when it is 95F.
Many people make dumb decisions in off markiets, that is to your advantage.

Hay equipment is much the same, work the sales especially in the fall and winter.

Don't be affraid of some off brands or odd models. Some are out of favor because they are bad, but many are off-brands because they were not marketed or sold aggressively or locally. The internet lets you do lots of homework before you buy. Lots of this equipment will do the job, but maybe it just isn't pretty. Rust can cut the price in half but only reduce the working value by 5 or 10%.

Decide what you will buy, then watch until a bargain comes along. To be good at the game, you must know the models and values ahead of time. You can not go home and do research when the auctioneer is looking for hands. Be prepared to walkaway if the bidding goes too high. 5 years from now you will have a decent group of equipment.

I knew what kind of mower I wanted so I put an ad on Craigslist. I guy 50 miles away called and had one, which I purchased in winter at half the auction value.

Here are some examples of stuff I think sells far below "working" value.

Massey Ferguson square balers.
Belt drive bar rakes.
3 point tedders especially european brands.
3 point rakes
Rotary rakes
NI or IH-case round balers
Claas balers (fine machines)

I don't know anything about silage, but a zillion acres of hay was made in the country with old designed equipment, lots of it still works.

Also, check with your ag office to see if they have any building cost share programs.
 
Sigh.

I just got a new sickle ordered in last week because mine
broke, and my spare it turns out I forgot I used it last fall when
I broke one then. Oops, poor planning, there I sat 4 days.....

Round baler is jumping the main chain, #80, not commonly
stocked here, do I putter about removing 2 links and see if it
works or just drive 50 miles, pay big bucks and have a chain
worth more than my baler that might last another year or 2?

My trusty NH rake has gearbox issues, needs a rebuild. Dad
bought it when I was small, that thing doesn't owe me
anything, but if I fix the gearbox then the wheels are wobbled
the dogs barely engage, I don't think the 55 has sleeves,
would need to have some machined in to stiffen the hubs back
up to the axle? I have a backup cheapie 3pt wheel rake but it
does not handle the tall prairie grass I have left to cut so need
to do something.

It only takes money, right? And well maybe a little thought and
planning and time.

Hum, time. I better get off the computer....

Paul
 
(quoted from post at 05:17:47 07/21/14) The time has come for me to either modernize a bit or get out of farming. I've been running junk other people labeled "worn out" for years. Lost the wobble box in my little 7 foot haybine the other day, there's something hitting hard in my ancient NH 68, the belts on my equally ancient Hesston 5500 round baler are so full of dutchmen they speak with an accent, my rakes are just pitiful and my tedder is making me pull out what little hair I have left. Truth is I need to put more stock on the place to keep the pastures down and to help bring them back, but I can't stock it heavier if I can't put up hay when it's ready. I already lost the better part of 2 weeks of good haying weather because of breakdowns. And I really, REALLY need some sheltered area to work on stuff in the winter. All that stops me from doing this is money and fear of debt. A newer, larger haybine, a decent baler with a kicker, some kicker wagons (although those I can borrow for now), a better, more reliable rake, either new belts or a newer round baler that will do silage bales...that would make life a lot easier...a LOT easier. Tractors I'm okay on, but I need to make a decision on the other stuff. SWMBO wants me to modernize. I'm torn.[b:935fde78d2] I don't want to stop farming, but I've got to get at least to breaking even over time.
[/b:935fde78d2]
Guess I'm just venting.
Click to expand...
on't how long you've been at it or how big your farm is but if you haven't got to the "break even" point yet running the old stuff what makes you think spending money you don't have on better machinery will get you there.
I think you should focus first on getting a better pay check.
get the cows first,..buy the extra hay if you need more winter feed,..its often cheaper than putting it up yourself if you really pencil in all the cost in time equipment fuel and break downs.

my 1c,..the other cent went to the taxman.
 
(quoted from post at 10:54:19 07/21/14)
(quoted from post at 05:17:47 07/21/14) The time has come for me to either modernize a bit or get out of farming. I've been running junk other people labeled "worn out" for years. Lost the wobble box in my little 7 foot haybine the other day, there's something hitting hard in my ancient NH 68, the belts on my equally ancient Hesston 5500 round baler are so full of dutchmen they speak with an accent, my rakes are just pitiful and my tedder is making me pull out what little hair I have left. Truth is I need to put more stock on the place to keep the pastures down and to help bring them back, but I can't stock it heavier if I can't put up hay when it's ready. I already lost the better part of 2 weeks of good haying weather because of breakdowns. And I really, REALLY need some sheltered area to work on stuff in the winter. All that stops me from doing this is money and fear of debt. A newer, larger haybine, a decent baler with a kicker, some kicker wagons (although those I can borrow for now), a better, more reliable rake, either new belts or a newer round baler that will do silage bales...that would make life a lot easier...a LOT easier. Tractors I'm okay on, but I need to make a decision on the other stuff. SWMBO wants me to modernize. I'm torn.[b:27f13506c4] I don't want to stop farming, but I've got to get at least to breaking even over time.
[/b:27f13506c4]
Guess I'm just venting.
Click to expand...
on't how long you've been at it or how big your farm is but if you haven't got to the "break even" point yet running the old stuff what makes you think spending money you don't have on better machinery will get you there.
I think you should focus first on getting a better pay check.
get the cows first,..buy the extra hay if you need more winter feed,..its often cheaper than putting it up yourself if you really pencil in all the cost in time equipment fuel and break downs.

my 1c,..the other cent went to the taxman.
Click to expand...

I agree on the debt. I don't like it. Been messing around a few years trying to get the family farm going again and finally bite the bullet this spring and borrowed the money to put wheat in. I've got old beat up equipment too but I borrowed enough to replace my old haybine when I went to the bank. I got a 12 foot cut Hesston swing arm for 1700 bucks. I did have to replace the bearings in the pitman arm but other than that it cuts good and seems to work well. The round baler is next on the list but my NH Super 68 works well. I only make about 100 squares a year. Emergency feed if I can't get anything to run when it's -20 or so. Should be able to start selling a few cows next year too. Sometimes you gotta see the banker.

Rick
 
I know exactly how you feel and we all have to vent once in a while.
I run old crap as well.
Anytime I get to thinking about buying new stuff I just think about how many parts one months of payments would pay for.
New stuff often built cheaper breaks too and the cost to repair it is much higher.
What I did was buy back-up machines identical to what I use, so when [not if] something goes down the toilet I can switch machines or rob parts as required.
Good for peace of mind.
I have a spare cutter, rake, baler, deck truck, tractors etc, when I need a part I don't have to wonder if the dealership has one in stock.
 
(quoted from post at 12:00:08 07/21/14) I know exactly how you feel and we all have to vent once in a while.
I run old crap as well.
Anytime I get to thinking about buying new stuff I just think about how many parts one months of payments would pay for.
New stuff often built cheaper breaks too and the cost to repair it is much higher.
What I did was buy back-up machines identical to what I use, so when [not if] something goes down the toilet I can switch machines or rob parts as required.
Good for peace of mind.
[b:8bc934cc57]I have a spare cutter, rake, baler, deck truck, tractors etc, when I need a part I don't have to wonder if the dealership has one in stock[/b:8bc934cc57].
Click to expand...
e never found out yet the parts you need are usually wore out on the spares too??

i still use the (old)equipment i started farming with in 86. most of it is late sixties early seventies., haybine baler tractors cultivators seed drill...the works, its all old and all of it bought with borrowed money at that time.
I graze most of my land but i put up about 1000 round bales of hay a year.
I usually buy fixer uppers if i need some piece of equipment.
The only thing i ever bought new was a 24' stock trailer last fall,paid cash for that one.
I finally bought an other used baler last week, paid cash for that too. I will never go in the hole again borrowing for equipment or vehicles.
Financially things are much better for me than even 6 years ago but prior to that i had plenty times that i didn't know if i was coming or going.
 
Here's how i did it over last 25 years: Started
with a 24T baler and a NH461 haybine + 55 rake.
Total investment $1,400. Borrowed mom's tractors
and barn and was in the 'horse hay' business. I
spent about 70% of the income on better equipment.
I also have 2 balers (JD336's) and 2 big tractors
now. Sounds silly to duplicate equipment, but the
hay on the ground is worth 2x a used baler. I also
buy things that need work, replace with good used
parts or new, and keep things in good running
condition. I have since re-sold 2 balers and 1
haybine. In every case, equal or more than I
purchased them for. The key there is buy up when
you can, and sell the older machines 'field ready'
Things do break, but I keep spare parts and either
switch machines or make a repair in about 20
minutes. My newest tractor is a 65' JD4020. My
newest machine a grey NI5209 disc mower.
 
Boy, I can relate to the replies and OP here. Just this morning was fighting with my old IH 2400 cylindrical hay maker. The tie mechanism screwed up in some way on 5 or 6 consecutive bales. The big bottom belt keeps walking off to one side and twice I caught the twine feeding into the bale right out of the box. No idea how that happened!

Hay on the ground that you can't get to is one of the most frustrating situations IMO.
If you just need more time to fix your equipment, consider buying some hay. At least you are importing minerals and organic matter.

I don't know if this will work in your location, here in hot weather country I have my NH 1469 set to where the cut hay ends up in a windrow the perfect width to go in the baler. After a day or two or three it's dry enough and I normally don't have to get out the rake.

At least none of us are alone in this. Takes imagination and ingenuity to make it on a smaller scale.
 
(quoted from post at 14:54:26 07/21/14)
(quoted from post at 12:00:08 07/21/14) I know exactly how you feel and we all have to vent once in a while.
I run old crap as well.
Anytime I get to thinking about buying new stuff I just think about how many parts one months of payments would pay for.
New stuff often built cheaper breaks too and the cost to repair it is much higher.
What I did was buy back-up machines identical to what I use, so when [not if] something goes down the toilet I can switch machines or rob parts as required.
Good for peace of mind.
[b:dc5688fa3b]I have a spare cutter, rake, baler, deck truck, tractors etc, when I need a part I don't have to wonder if the dealership has one in stock[/b:dc5688fa3b].
Click to expand...
e never found out yet the parts you need are usually wore out on the spares too??

i still use the (old)equipment i started farming with in 86. most of it is late sixties early seventies., haybine baler tractors cultivators seed drill...the works, its all old and all of it bought with borrowed money at that time.
I graze most of my land but i put up about 1000 round bales of hay a year.
I usually buy fixer uppers if i need some piece of equipment.
The only thing i ever bought new was a 24' stock trailer last fall,paid cash for that one.
I finally bought an other used baler last week, paid cash for that too. I will never go in the hole again borrowing for equipment or vehicles.
Financially things are much better for me than even 6 years ago but prior to that i had plenty times that i didn't know if i was coming or going.
Click to expand...
Bison I know exactly what you mean.
I do about the same on hay in a good year as you do and sell calves early, buy feed etc on the poor years.
My front line equipment is from the 50's to the early 80's.
The parts on the spare machines usually are a bit different or a size bigger or smaller than what I need, but in this industry you either figure it out and make it work or buy all new and go bankrupt.
 
I find a piece/model of equipment that suits my needs and just keep buying the same thing and keep the non working ones for parts.I have 4 NH
round balers all the same model two as runners two as parts machines.Beats a trip to the dealer when I break down and usually have each hooked up to a tractor ready to go during hay season.When running old equipment I've found having at least two of everything I use makes life a lot easier plus I still don't have a fraction$ in them as new equipment and new equipment breaks down too.
 
A very logical option. It takes a while to learn how to operate and repair a particular implement. Constantly changing to newer equipment takes away the element of experience. Is the newer stuff all that much more efficient?
It is worth evaluating on small acreage.
 
Feel your pain , was raised here , left , came back
and am in the process of rebuilding. Dad has passed
and am trying to work 100 acres. Buying equipment on
a budget , working full time will smoke you. But
if it is what you want you will do it , period. You
will decide when to say when and you will probably
keep going . My two cents.
 
Appreciate the replies guys. I get most of what you are saying and a lot of it makes sense. Just to clear up a couple things- I have 342 acres, about 60-70 in hay, another 150 or so in rough pasture and the rest in woods and swamp. We raise hair sheep for lamb, a few dairy cows for feeding the bummer lambs (and because I like Jerseys) my wife has a mess of show quality dairy goats, we have some draft horses (because I like drafters) and a couple riding horses (because my wife likes them) and a few beef heifers that are the foundation for getting back into some small scale beef again. The sheep are used to go into overgrown pasture and eat it down and up. We're talking badly overgrown pasture with prickly ash, thorn apple and buck brush. Send the sheep and goats in, let them eat it out and then go in with the bush hog or crawler. It's slow, but it works over 3 years or so. Right now I'm down to 50 some ewes after a horrible winter that followed a horrible hay year that followed another horrible hay year. But there will be 75 or so head by winter, plus the other stock. Generally I plan on [b:4bfe910a29]at least [/b:4bfe910a29]2-250 4x5 rounds and 1000 squares in the barn, all dry hay. Not a huge amount compared to some, but a lot for a one man show with iffy equipment. We have to plan on feeding from maybe the end of October to middle of April. I'm working towards 200 ewes. Been up to 125 or so before.

Anyways, I got 27 rounds done yesterday after noon. The old Hesston is going to stay for now. Just found an ad from a guy who has a bunch of belts for sale. Gotta call him. Found out I;m missing a lot of pickup teeth and the angles on the bottom roller are about worn off. Easy fixes I should have seen before if I hadn't been in a sprint from one crisis to the next. The old 68 NH is a different story, it's out of time even though I've been through it 4 times timing it. Yeah, new chains 3 years back IIRC. Something is bent or out of adjustment someplace. It's time for something newer with a kicker or else go to bale baskets. Kickers are starting to make more sense since I have neighbors that are starting to want to work together and they all have kickers. Guy here on YT just up the road from me has the part I need for the 472, but after using a "worn out" 488 with stub guards I know just how slow I've been going and how worn my old faithful 472 is. So I'm going to do something there one way or the other. The rakes are just abused beyond belief. When you buy a rake for $100.00 you get a $100.00 rake, right?! There's a Class rotary for sale up the road with a busted pto shaft. going to take a look at it.

Sometimes you have to say whats bugging you out loud and hear what it sounds like I guess. Sort of puts things in perspective or something.
 
By the sound of it your horses just take up space and pasture and are only a money drain(poor investment which caries a steep yearly fee and no interest return).They eat just as much hay as your whole herd of goats.
Same with the jerseys, It don't make sense to keep a couple cows around just to feed a couple lambs because their mommies are useless.(pencil it out,..it does not pay)
My advise if you want to start making a profit,You've got to look at your farm as a business for profit and not as a hobby farm.
Sell the horses and the jersey's(maybe keep one if you want some milk for yourself) and use that money to buy better equipment.
Sell the goats that can or will not raise their young.
Buy a bag of milk replacer if you need to raise the occasional abandoned or orphaned lamb(.22 is cheaper but that is just my opinion)
Cows and goats are not really going well together(Goats are carriers of malignant fever).
Focus on one or the other,...not both.

If you want,buy a horse back when you can afford it.
 
The drafters are used in the woods and fields. When I'm not chasing my tail that is. I'd rather be using the horses than spending money on fuel. I understand what you mean, but where do you draw the line between enjoying what you do and not doing it because it costs money? I could buy all my hay in or do it on shares, but then what am I building but dependence on someone elses labor and tools? I understand what you mean and I get it. But the farm is as much a way of life as a business. The horses and goats are also 4H stuff. I appreciate the insight though.

BTW, I did pencil out the milk replacer vs cow for bummers. The cow wins hands down.
 
I know farming is also a way of life and enjoying what you do is very important. But it doesn't seem to be working for ye the way you do it as there don't seem to be enough coming in to make ends meet with some to spare.
BTW what is a market lamb worth come fall and how many lambs do the jerseys raise every year.
I mean a cow cost at least a buck/day to maintain + the money invested in the cow.

over my lifetime i had at one time or another dairy, sheep, horses, pigs and beef cows either together or separately.
None of it panned out in the long run, either to much work or not enough money in it.
18 years ago i sold all the animals and switched to bison.
I never looked back, they win hands down.
 
It's a $300.00 cow thats dropped heifers for me, sweetest animal you'd ever want to be around. If every Jersey was like her, people wouldn't want dogs or cats! She about paid for herself the first year feeding bummers. Milk replacer was running me about $60.00 for every 10 lambs from birth till weaning, maybe a little more. 40 some bummers go through a lot of milk replacer. She ate grass, hay and couple pounds of corn and oats mix at milking. Lambs did way better too. I call it a win. Maybe others wouldn't. I only have 1 bummer this year and she's still eating frozen milk from last year while the cow is nursing 2 calves on pure pasture.

I really get what you're saying. Dairy replacements I lost my shirt on. Pigs won't seem to breed for me and they won't do well on my pasture like all the stories say they will. Beef I did okay on but I sold out because it was too much work for the money and I needed to buy fencing. The fencing money went elsewhere and beef shot through the roof. Sheep, we got into them so my wife could mess with her Border Collies. Well, the dogs didn't pan out but the sheep did well. When I wasn't trying to raise sheep I was averaging well over $100.00 a head for zero input beyond round bales. Once I started trying to raise sheep and break even at least everything went south. The local market dropped like a rock and we ended up having to ship to new Holland Pa to get a decent price. Last guy that shipped had 6 head stolen right off the dock and never heard of them again. Those were nice lambs too.

Anyway, I get it. I'm just trying to find a balance point. What I got now ain't it.
 
(quoted from post at 12:59:34 07/22/14) The drafters are used in the woods and fields. When I'm not chasing my tail that is. I'd rather be using the horses than spending money on fuel. I understand what you mean, but where do you draw the line between enjoying what you do and not doing it because it costs money?

......and that right there is the heart of the matter in my opinion. You have the right attitude and the right questions. Do not lose sight of why you are doing all you are. Life is awful short. Keep it all in perspective and not focus on any one aspect and you will at least know why you make certain decisions.

Good luck!
Click to expand...
 
Yeah it ain't easy BTDT.
These days you either go big or get out.
I used to farm 1/2 section and had 50 head of beef and 4 dairy cows, i also raised red wattle pigs i sold in sides.
We was making gouda cheese and butter and cream and sold that to the neighborhood and into town. That worked alright and made us a living till the gubmint shut me down cause i didn't have the permits :roll:
Then the pork took a dive and i could not even give them away.
Well 75 beef and 1/2 section wasn't enough to make ends meet so i took a jump of the bridge and sold the 1/2 and bought an badly neglected 11 quarter ranch,all of it on borrowed money cause i lost money on the old place.
I ran a couple hundred cows(1o0 on shares) on that place for 3 or 4 years and then a drought hit,.no grass, no hay.
Every cow hit the road.
It is not the end of the story but you get the drift i think :wink:
 
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