OT Union Worker Question

For those of you that work at a union job I have a question. Where I work our contract expires at the end of this month. Some of my co-workers have expressed interest in switching to a different union. Can this be done and how do you do it is my question?

In simple terms, if you no longer have a contract and legal obligation of any kind, then I would think all you would need to do is get everyone on board, and meet with the other unions, business agent, delegate or whomever will handle negotiations, contracts and the like. In simple terms isn't it along those lines ? If Union A's contract expires and there is no longer an obligation, you are free to organize with or how you wish correct ? I realize there are lots of details, legal issues, documents, provisions, negotiations but essentially you are just changing label correct? I am not sure about the company's opinion on doing so, all will have to be in agreement with the terms etc,. that may get involved, and you don't know who is connected to who, what ripple effects there may be later, or just by contemplating it.

I have dealt with the repercussions of this, whereas a contractor I hired, had done just that, and the previous union got really nasty and illegally picketed them on my job, then tried to interfere with other union trades on that job, with the intent to get them to honor the picket, stop work and be real ball busters. I bought the services from this contractor, but did not inherit the associated and or retaliating district council of carpenters. One of the more bizarre things I have had to deal with, regarding union trades. So as not to lose any production, I got a hold of their new union's atty, explained the situation, it was determined that it was illegal, what the DC of carpenters were doing, picketing, got an injunction to stop it. In addition it was illegal beyond that, as in NYC, they have to notify police, and be assigned a designated area to do so, inflate their giant rat etc. So ( and I have photos of this) when the delegate threatened me as well, I said you will get a phone call at 2 PM sharp, you will be instructed to cease the picket, be instructed to leave by the 10th precinct, in addition, if you do not I will drive this 844D Lull telehandler right through your rat and do it myself! The photo I have is with me in the seat on the machine facing the rat, and him on the street. I had also made 50 copies of the injunction earlier, went to the scaffold, where 30 bricklayers were working and gave them a copy, stating to them its illegal and they do not have to honor it, keep working, same with the operating engineer, he wanted to leave anyway, they had enough material to finish, so I manned the 844D Lull. Dirty rotten scoundrel tried to intimidate me, every person on the job, even the port-o-john attendant, who was union as well, got him so upset he could have had a heart attack, I hate a bully, and that was that. It was a vendetta for the company re-organizing after the contract expired, thought I was some push over, but the push over knows how to run his jobs and settled it with an absolute defense, what a jerk this guy was, he even said to me, well I'll have to inflate the rat, set up picket, whaddaya gonna do ???? LOL ! He found out right quick, and I wanted to run those forks through that rat, but was thinking this may get me trip to Rikers Island, so I let it play out, in the old days when I was younger, I'd have just ran it over, worried about that later.

Billy
I was in union shops most of my working life, also some years in open shop. Each has its good points & some bad points, but that is not the topic today.
Union affiliation can be changed, but there are certain steps to take.
With less than 2 weeks until contract expires, it might be too late to make a change now. I presume that negotiations for new contract, or extension of current contract are in progress.
To de-certify your current union, an election must be held, supervised by NLRB (National Labor Relations Board). There are federal rules about how much time between notice of election & actual election.
Majority rules. If the members vote to de-certify, then an election can be called for new representation. Again, there are rules about time between notice & actual election.
Between you, me & the fence post, if I were in your situation, I would vote to extend the existing contract , with no changes, for six months. That would give enough time for the process to work its way through.
Keep in mind, that at the end of contract, if not extended, you have the right to strike, & the employer has the right to lock out, unless you are considered to be providing critical services such as fire fighters, law enforcement etc.

Willie
former Teamster & Algamated Transit Workers member.

I am the steward at our union shop. We are truck drivers and we wanted to switch to teamsters but they told us that we would have to drop our existing union and be without represinentaton for one year before they will touch us.

And NY wonders why industry is leaving the state in droves. Last one out, turn off the lights.

They sure are not coming to Illinois!

In switching unions requires vote to disassociate with existing union and votes to join another one. The case for the switch must be made directly to the union members. The National Labor Relations Board oversees union election and will be involved in any votes to switch affiliation.

Its a lot more complicated than I thought, as this company whom I hired often for sidewalk bridging, made the switch, and I just share the experience, it did not seem to have taken place with a lot of red tape and strings attached, I am sure an expert would be best suited to advise here LOL !

Formerly a teamster myself, I took a withdrawal card in 1986.

International Brotherhood of Teamsters Chauffeurs Warehousemen and Helpers of America Local #669

I still have a Class A CDL with a clean abstract, and current medical card.

I also employed every union construction trade in the construction industry in NYC, throughout my career, through our company and or working for large firms, as well as directly supervising crews up to 65+ journeymen, very well experienced on that end of it in the construction industry, of course that don't mean squat for this conversation, LOL !!
Local 669

Let me say this, when a B.A, thug from a union hall gangs up on a job, that I am running for an owner, that would have directly cost, how many days pay, depending on the union contracts involved, ie; operating engineer is guaranteed 40 hrs, once on the job, until such time he/she is laid off, equipment terminated on site etc. and lets say the 30 bricklayers, + the mason tenders, who if honored the picket, their company would have hit us directly with a back charge for the cost of all the idle trades they were responsible for paying but performed no work.

This was 608 DC carpenters, with no presence on the job, was still in the superstructure phase. So they decide to start trouble on my job, literally show up only because they have a beef with the sidewalk bridging company because they re-organized, which has nothing to do with me. I as the project manager have an obligation to an owner and the project to maintain production, the schedule and the budget, and I'll do what I must to perform and make sure those 3 main components are not compromised.

I supervised union ironworkers for several years, and one thing was certain, they were paid top industry pay, with full benefits, under no uncertain terms did any of them not produce, or play any games. I have terminated a few, I instilled upon these people that we play no games when it comes to production, they were well treated, and realized that if they pulled any crap, it hurts the company, if the company cannot get contracts, that's one less company needing people from their hall, their union. I rarely had trouble on jobs I ran, when I did, if I terminated someone it was for cause and it was backed up. My jobs were profitable only because they were managed with a firm hand. I never had trouble putting together crews, most of the 580 guys who knew me, would seek work on my jobs, many had worked for me before, went on to some really large projects, when those finished, I'd always get a visit, checking to see if I needed people, and often times I did.

I do not see how that would drive any industry out of NY, the construction industry is unique when it comes to union trades, and it takes a firm hand with the knowledge and fortitude to negotiate the curves in the business, you can't cut it, they will roll right over you, never happened on my jobs, I've had some real hoods try and pull crap on me, none of them ever got up early enough to get an inch on me.

Proportionally, owners do pay a lot more for union work, but given what developers do, they always make money in the end with buildings, we play by the contract rules and appease the B.A.'s, stewards, and delegates, by the same token, we still have enough mobility to maintain leverage.

I had a crane operator pull some real crap on a job, he was full of himself, "I'm the engineer on the job", he cost me a 25 person crew a days pay, each costing the company over $100/hr for 7 hours each that day, he claimed the wind was too much, it was not, and if it was, I'd have called the day and given 2 hrs show up time, you have a certain amount of time to do that. He thought he had me, busted my chops about the stamps in the envelope, I personally went to the hall with a certified check, on my time to appease this jerk, yes most companies lag a little with stamps because they are a hassle, but we paid our bills, the hall knew that, they don't let the line out too far before something is said or done, but this guy was rude and obnoxious, thought I could not get him off the job, was going to keep blowing holes in our labor budget. I had 2 cranes on site, but since he was first on site, he would be last to leave, so I had enough, cancelled both cranes, sent them back to the yard, lost a bunch of production time, the G.C. was all over me about it. I then brought the cranes back, and informed the crane outfit I will give all my business to your competitor if I ever see this guy on any of my job sites again. He was gone, and my production picked right up, that lost time was buried with real production and the company made 20% profit on the base bid contract, and a real nice chunk of additional profit with an addition to the contract. If you think people who manage jobs correctly drives industry out, you may need to re-think that philosophy.

It sounds like being a foreman on a union job is more about being a politician than a foreman. Just think how much faster and how much more profit could have been made had you been able to throw the bum out and get someone who wanted to work. If you want to know what happens to an area when unions are fully in control, study Detroit and its suburbs. They are now ghost towns and can barely keep city services on in some harder hit areas.

Whats driving jobs out of NY is taxes, regulations and the high cost of living here. Union costs may be high but the crap ya gotta go through just to try to start a project would kill most people.

Hey Billy, I enjoy your war stories about running jobs in the big city. If you are ever bored, I think it would be great if you would start a thread with some more of these.

Thanks, its just things that happened, that you learn from or get through in that business, lot of stress at times, and I would think it not so interesting to most, just recollecting the past a bit, and probably too much so LOL ! Sooner or later everyone will deal with adverse conditions, its how you handle it that defines you. Or so I believe LOL !

John asked a serious question, seems to be a lot involved to do follow through on that, reminded me of the situation that followed when company did this, that I did lots of business with.

For the most part, in that business, the trades, craftspeople, journeymen/women, are well trained, productive and take a lot of pride in what they do, and I've seen it non union, open shop just the same, really depends on the company.

In general, the work ethic is there, owners, managers have mobility and leverage enough to keep it fair, but its the people that make the difference, most show up to produce, earn a nice living and enjoy life, you will find those with other ideas and they usually get weeded out.

Manufacturing, a lot different, I've seen Detroit and its just hard to believe how things changed, its a bitter subject too, labor/management/company. In construction it works, sure the cost is higher, but the work is hard, dangerous, full of risk, if managed properly its successful. I had to do one job with open shop trades, one that was started with union trades, but switched over half way through, at the behest of the owner and his consultant, it was not easy and though most were ok, I had one firm that was absolutely grossly incompetent. That business can be a real rat race from a managers view, you pick and choose your battles when you can.