Tractor safety and WF vs NF ( Release the HOUNDS!)

AlanA · May 9, 2014

Bought my first narrow front tractor last month, and I have a few thoughts. Some of you have been driving them longer than I've been alive, so take this with a grain of salt.

I've always heard that a NF tractor was less stable/more dangerous than a WF tractor, especially running a drag-type mower.

I have had multiple friends acquaintences get hurt or killed on them, but in NOT ONE of those cases was there a roll-over. 3 different cases where the operator fell and was chopped/crushed.

I want to propose a different theory: It is not the front-end. It is the operator station. If you start to fall, there is NOTHING but the steering wheel to grab. Sitting on my 39 H, I have to hold on to the steering wheel, push in the clutch, reach WAY down backwards behind me to engage the PTO. IF I had the tractor in a drive gear and my foot slips off the clutch while performing these gymnastics, I could easily lose my grip on the wheel and then ...thump thump thump thump.

So rule 0: Never engage PTO with the transmission already in a gear. Start in neutral, engage PTO, then engage tranny.

I "growed up" running an 8N and a Fordson Dexta. One of our mowers was a wide-open drag type, and we rigged up a pipe frame and chain-link screen to protect the operator from sticks, chunks, and rocks thrown forward from that beast. It was worse than most, but pretty much any drag-type bush-hog could benefit from the use of such a screen. This would also help with the "nothing to stop your fall" issue.

There IS an issue: the WF guys have a point. But I don't think it is the NF itself.

RLA · May 9, 2014

It mostly how the Driver"s Station is laid out.
Comfort of controls & ease of operation.. I"ve
never upset either, but couple times I should
have.

jennifer408 · May 9, 2014

thanks for bringing up tractor safety,
i don't think we can bring it up enough. it needs to be fresh on our minds at all times. you just hear too many tragic stories, way too often.

Vito · May 9, 2014

I have a lever that engages the pto on my H.I only have to reach just
below the seat on the left side.I have fenders also.

Have to keep thinking safety when running this older equipment.

Vito

EricInSEI · May 9, 2014

I have to disagree. Many tractor models were made with a choice of WF or NF. The operator station was the same on both, therefore the risk of falling off the back was the same. I think that you are actually comparing older versus newer tractors. Some of the older tractors the operator really is stuck out behind the tractor.

Stumpy(NH) · May 9, 2014

I have and have had both. I will agree about
engaging the pto in neutral. I actually never gave
it any thought, but do it all the time. With no
live pto tractors I engage and start the pto with
the trans in neutral to spin the blades up, step
on the clutch and then chuck it in gear.....the
beauty of having and over running clutch on the
pto.

As far as wide front vs narrow? I'll keep all my
wide fronts. I don't row crop so the narrow really
doesn't hold much benefit for me.

Stumpy

oldtanker · May 9, 2014

(quoted from post at 13:46:53 05/09/14) I have to disagree. Many tractor models were made with a choice of WF or NF. The operator station was the same on both, therefore the risk of falling off the back was the same. I think that you are actually comparing older versus newer tractors. Some of the older tractors the operator really is stuck out behind the tractor.

Eric has it right as far as the OP stated. As far as narrow front is concerned, a study, I don't remember who did it concluded that for normal operations doing tillage or mowing work it's 6 of one and half a dozen of the other as far as roll over goes. It's going down hill with a load behind pushing a tractor where the narrow front is more apt to tip over.

Rick

souNdguy · May 9, 2014

the ford rowcrops inthe last part of the 00 and the 01 series could be had wf or NF.. I personally prefer NF for mowing. I can actually SEE what I am mowing.. i like being up higher too... weed brush isn't at my face level.. it's more at my knee level..

Dick2 · May 9, 2014

WF vs NF is a simple matter of the laws of physics.

Just draw a rectangle that would represent a WF.

Then draw a triangle that would represent a NF.

You will see that the rectangle has a larger area than the triangle, so the WF is a little safer to operate. Any time that the center of gravity (CG) moves outside the lines, the tractor is going to tip over.

Not too much to worry about if you don't drive on steep slopes, but something that you should be aware of at all times.

showcrop · May 9, 2014

I can think of three times in my life when I was involved in near rollover and all were on wide front tractors. I own seven tractors, two wide and five narrow. As others have said it is mostly how they are driven, but, before being too confident with your wide front, jack up one side of the rear sometime and see how far you get it tipped before the front axle comes against the stop. You may be in for a shock as to how far you will tip before that wide front is going to help keep you from rolling.

Traditional Farmer · May 9, 2014

Its not the Operators Station its just the operator driven NF tractors all my life never had a problem

Cumminsdeere · May 9, 2014

:Buy the time you lean a wide front far enough
that the front wheels ketch ya its time for new
shorts ive been that steep before but I'm glad its
up there anyway I wouldn't want a narrow front
where I farm

gene bender · May 10, 2014

Always the operators fault has nothing to do with wide fronts.

MarkB_MI · May 10, 2014

I have never seen a standard front end axle that didn't pivot in the middle. Even though the front tires are further apart on a WFE, that is mostly irrelevant until the axle pivot hits its stop. The tractor may be on its way over at that point.

The main concern with row crop tractors is not their narrow front ends so much as high centers of gravity. I've never seen any statistics, but I suspect most sideways tractor rollovers start with a slide on slippery side slope. Unless the tractor has a very low CG, a rollover is pretty much inevitable once you start sliding sideways.

Bret4207 · May 10, 2014

100% operator error if theres a problem. Nf or wf makes 0 difference. If anything, the higher station of a NF should accentuate the "tippy feeling and make us more cautious. As far as operator controls, between poorly laid out brake locks, pto levers and other controls I think it's still a toss up. We all get complacent and that's when problems happen.

NNP · May 10, 2014

I like NF's and agree it's their usual high center of gravity
more than the design that makes them 'feel' tippy.
In reality, they really are not. Mowing with my SH, with it's big tires and weight., I actually feel more secure when a rear climbs a hill than I do on a little Ford N for example.

Besides, like the other poster said, most old tractors with their
front axle pin design are really tri-cycles anyway.
(Split one without driving blocks into the front to wedge the axle...........not good)

Prawn Farmer · May 10, 2014

Exactly. CG is is the "physics" involved here.

Blackhole49 · May 10, 2014

Dick, that may be true on a car that pivots on the corners, but not on a tractor that pivots in the center of the front. A wide front is essentially the same as a narrow front with stops usually beyond the point of no return. Simple physics.

VicS · May 10, 2014

I agree with the majority opinion. Makes no difference. Farm Bureau put on a demonstration with toy 560 IHC's with electric motors in them. They had a piece of plywood that they could tilt by the numbers. The narrow front actually went a couple of inches further before it turned over. (they were toys) What I learned also was the effect of a loader on turning over. The loader itself made it less stable. But with a load in the bucket and helt just above the ground actually helped let it go up the slope further. It lowered the center of gravity. So if you are on a pond dam mowing and you have a loader on keep your bucket almost on the ground. And if your bucket is on the ground chances are you won't turn over. Vic

caterpillar guy · May 10, 2014

Well The first thing to go was the fenders. As there is not room to get on the tractor with them and the cultivator on. The fenders were in the way of the cultivator on the old H'and M's and such. We have the old lever for the cultivator on each side. The only tractor we had tip over side ways was an old WC with a loader on We were moving trusses to build a pole barn 40 years ago. The front wheel went over a wood chuck hole with the truss hanging on the front. This was on a NF. We have an H and MD both NF. All the rest are much larger like 806 or 856 and came with WF when we got them.

Eldon (WA) · May 10, 2014

(quoted from post at 12:10:26 05/09/14) Bought my first narrow front tractor last month, and I have a few thoughts. Some of you have been driving them longer than I've been alive, so take this with a grain of salt.

I've always heard that a NF tractor was less stable/more dangerous than a WF tractor, especially running a drag-type mower.

I have had multiple friends acquaintences get hurt or killed on them, but in NOT ONE of those cases was there a roll-over. 3 different cases where the operator fell and was chopped/crushed.

I want to propose a different theory: It is not the front-end. It is the operator station. If you start to fall, there is NOTHING but the steering wheel to grab. Sitting on my 39 H, I have to hold on to the steering wheel, push in the clutch, reach WAY down backwards behind me to engage the PTO. IF I had the tractor in a drive gear and my foot slips off the clutch while performing these gymnastics, I could easily lose my grip on the wheel and then ...thump thump thump thump.

So rule 0: Never engage PTO with the transmission already in a gear. Start in neutral, engage PTO, then engage tranny.

I "growed up" running an 8N and a Fordson Dexta. One of our mowers was a wide-open drag type, and we rigged up a pipe frame and chain-link screen to protect the operator from sticks, chunks, and rocks thrown forward from that beast. It was worse than most, but pretty much any drag-type bush-hog could benefit from the use of such a screen. This would also help with the "nothing to stop your fall" issue.

There IS an issue: the WF guys have a point. But I don't think it is the NF itself.

I would never brush hog on hillside with a narrow front! With a wide front, the front wheels will warn you of a hole or ditch on the downhill side in time to stop or turn downhill before the rear wheel hits it. I have been there. Also, with a loader, try this. Load the bucket, crank the wheels all the way to one side...and pop the clutch backing up. The NF pivot point will cause the front end to roll right out from under the load....almost impossible to do with a wide front. Also watch out on 4x4 CUT with loader. Try backing uphill with a loaded bucket and the front will walk right out from under the load and put the tractor in its nose if the bucket is high enough....

Tractor safety and WF vs NF ( Release the HOUNDS!)

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