Took the generator from my Farmall M in to get converted to 12 volt from 6 volt. Starter/generator guy said I might want to change the 6 volt starter to 12 volts. He mentioned the starter drive might not handle the increased voltage. He said going from 6 to 12 volts increases the power 4 times. Am I ok to just keep using the old 6 volt starter????
- Thread starter andy r
- Start date
From what the starter guy told me,the one on the 6,at 12 volts,kicks in too fast or some such thing. It causes the cogs to get taken off and loose their taper? I guess that was what he was saying anyway. Said he has to grind an angle back on some of those old 6's now and then because they start to grind a lot and won't kick in to the flywheel. That said,I never upgraded one.
Geo-TH,In
Well-known Member
I have an IH C 12v. Also have a 12 V Jubilee. Yes the 6 volt starters will twist off the drive. Had to replace the starter drives on both tractors. I found parts to about 6 other starter drives inside the ford bell housing.
I'm lucky to get OEM drives from YT. Wish someone would point me to the heavy duty ones.
Both my tractors have old 12v batteries that wouldn't work on a 12v starter, weak. But they sure spin fast on 6 v starter.
I'm lucky to get OEM drives from YT. Wish someone would point me to the heavy duty ones.
Both my tractors have old 12v batteries that wouldn't work on a 12v starter, weak. But they sure spin fast on 6 v starter.
Wheat Farmer
Well-known Member
I keep hearing about 6v to 12v. I still have three tractors with 6v. I see no need to change them. Still able to buy 6v batteries, and have them repaired. Only down fall is jumping them. What is the main reason for changing?
onefarmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- 6735 S Lowell Rd, St Johns, Mi 48879
6v starter will be just fine. I changed to 12v on my Farmall M in 1987. Been using the same starter motor ever since. Did break the bendix spring once.
Changed it out to the more modern Spring-less drive and been running it ever since.
![a148225.jpg"height=250](http://"http://photos.yesterdaystractors.com/gallery/uptest/a148225.jpg"height=250)
Still using the same starter motor and ring gear.
I've also changed another M and an H to 12v. Along with a Massey 44.
Changed it out to the more modern Spring-less drive and been running it ever since.
Still using the same starter motor and ring gear.
I've also changed another M and an H to 12v. Along with a Massey 44.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I have a Ford 960 and a 1950 GMC. Both were converted to 12 volt many years ago and I have 6 volt starters on both of them with no problems.
I like the faster cranking
I like the faster cranking
onefarmer
Well-known Member
- Location
- 6735 S Lowell Rd, St Johns, Mi 48879
I got the pic of the modern drive from Steiner. They don't show one for a MH44. Sorry. Maybe another source would have it?
dr sportster
Well-known Member
Those remote starters you see at the drag strip running 3 12 volt batts at 36 volts are 12 volt starters. The windings in the 6 volt are heavier .Should be fine.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
I have converted many old tractors to 12 volts and have NEVER switched out a starter yet. O have some that where converted over 10 years ago and still using 6 volt starters on them
Allan in NE
Well-known Member
Your generator guy must be pretty darned young. :>)
Allan
Allan
Steve@Advance
Well-known Member
There are a couple of factors to consider.
The design of the starter. If by chance it was over engineered, everything extra heavy duty, you may get by with running 6v on 12v. Look around this site, ask your rebuilder, see what problems, or not, others have had with your particular model.
The other consideration is how often do you use the tractor? If it's a working tractor, used and started a lot. If it costs you money and scheduling problems when its down, I would consider converting it to 12v. If its a show tractor, mostly sits and looks pretty, leave it 6v.
You most likely won't burn up the 6v starter. The problems range from broken housings, broken drive gears, and damaged ring gears. It's the hard slamming of the drive into the ring gear that causes problems.
The design of the starter. If by chance it was over engineered, everything extra heavy duty, you may get by with running 6v on 12v. Look around this site, ask your rebuilder, see what problems, or not, others have had with your particular model.
The other consideration is how often do you use the tractor? If it's a working tractor, used and started a lot. If it costs you money and scheduling problems when its down, I would consider converting it to 12v. If its a show tractor, mostly sits and looks pretty, leave it 6v.
You most likely won't burn up the 6v starter. The problems range from broken housings, broken drive gears, and damaged ring gears. It's the hard slamming of the drive into the ring gear that causes problems.
gene bender
Well-known Member
u should also take him the starter so he can refresh it and then it will work just fine on the 12v system but getting it rfresed will sure make it work without any probems.
rustred
Well-known Member
Exactly, you said it! I always wonder how come nobody else will admit to this. its not the starter windings it self, but the other things that get damaged. but they keep preaching that all is good and everything works for decades. I have mentioned your last sentence about hard slamming and I get slammed.
thank you very much.
its like, of course it will work, but so does a hand crank and everyone bitches about throwing them away.
thank you very much.
its like, of course it will work, but so does a hand crank and everyone bitches about throwing them away.
huntingreen2day2
Member
I upgraded one on an H since it had to be rebuilt anyway. I sure like the way it spins the engine now.
OH I don't know. How about better starting in all weather conditions to include -20F (no wind chill in that). No confusion about jump starting. No shopping around today for a battery charge that is capable of 6 volt. Cheaper batteries. With an alternator more reliable charging system. Can use tractor to jump start new things as needed. Can run 12 volt accessories and implements like a sprayer. So now the question is why would someone with a work tractor want to keep it 6 volt?
In fact I can only think of one reason for keeping something 6 volt and that's for show. Sorry, I don't own nor do I want a show queen.
Rick
Changing to a 12 volt system increases cranking voltage from 4.5 volts to 9 volts. I doubt it's "4X" the power as the guy told you. I've changed many old tractors to 12 volts and never had a single issue with the starter - left as-is. Oliver/Cleatrac HG, many Fords, Case VAC, Deere 420, Shaw R12, etc.
The only starters I've ever had any issue with increasing voltage was the crappy Delco direct-drive starters in GM cars. I put dual batteries in my SS Chevelle and it kept breaking starter drives from engaging too fast. That wasn't even a conversion. One battery cranked at 9.5 volts. Two big batteries in parallel had it cranking at 11 volts and that would break drives. Not built near as strong as the starters on most of these old tractors.
The only starters I've ever had any issue with increasing voltage was the crappy Delco direct-drive starters in GM cars. I put dual batteries in my SS Chevelle and it kept breaking starter drives from engaging too fast. That wasn't even a conversion. One battery cranked at 9.5 volts. Two big batteries in parallel had it cranking at 11 volts and that would break drives. Not built near as strong as the starters on most of these old tractors.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
12v is not a problem with an M starter
The tractor will crank and start faster which will generate less heat and actually make the starter last longer.
If the tractor doesn't start and you keep cranking it even with a 6v battery you'll kill it.
I think low voltage like the slow half dead crank of a 6v system will do far more damage.
I guess you could break more bendix drives or ring gears from the faster speed but I've never seen this happen.
The tractor will crank and start faster which will generate less heat and actually make the starter last longer.
If the tractor doesn't start and you keep cranking it even with a 6v battery you'll kill it.
I think low voltage like the slow half dead crank of a 6v system will do far more damage.
I guess you could break more bendix drives or ring gears from the faster speed but I've never seen this happen.
redforlife
Well-known Member
been starting my 6v M with 12 v every other day or so for 2 or 3 winters. no problems. not a good idea to engage the starter and let it grind continueously if tractor is hard starting. My M starts right up pretty quick. you might wanta make sure your M starts easily.
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