I've replaced the following: battery, starter, 12 volt coil, distributor cap, rotor, converted points to electronic ignition, plugs, and plug wires. All to no avail, still no start. There is plenty of suction at mouth of carb. Carb has been completely cleaned. Spark test proved good....has excellent spark. Plenty of gas at the carburetor. Seems as though it is not getting fuel into cylinder. Any suggestions on what to check next ?
- Thread starter Astars23
- Start date
Dave H (MI)
Well-known Member
Are you sure about suction/compression? That front mount distributor is keyed for the timing so you are kind of running out of options if you have good fuel flow and the spark is good and hot. I have more problems with our 2N than I do with any of the other tractors.
Yes.....it's solid. The motor was completely rebuilt just 3 years ago, re-sleeved, bearings, pistons, rings, valves....the entire motor.
In fact, it ran great up until about 4 weeks ago. Then started killing under load. Started methodically replacing parts. It did start last weekend, ran like a champ. Now, just can't get it to start. I live in Wisconsin.....but am not convinced it's the cold because I have not had any cold starting problems previously.
I am plain stumped.
Wheat Farmer
Well-known Member
"Excellent spark" at the end of the spark plug??
"plenty of gas" in the cyl??
Could a bird or mouse get into the intake?
"plenty of gas" in the cyl??
Could a bird or mouse get into the intake?
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
You need to learn trouble shooting 101. Trouble shoot then parts NEVER ever the other way around
#1 spark has to be a good blue/white and jump a 1/4 inch gap or more.
#2 you need a good steady flow of gas out of the carb drain plug for a few minutes. Catch the gas to check for water/dirt.
#3 the spark has to be at the right time at the correct cylinder.
#4 the air cleaner need to be clean and filled with clean oil
#5 compression has to be 90PSI or more.
#6 the plugs if wet are fouled out Plus the plugs need to be good and clean. Auto lite 437 are the preferred plug
#1 spark has to be a good blue/white and jump a 1/4 inch gap or more.
#2 you need a good steady flow of gas out of the carb drain plug for a few minutes. Catch the gas to check for water/dirt.
#3 the spark has to be at the right time at the correct cylinder.
#4 the air cleaner need to be clean and filled with clean oil
#5 compression has to be 90PSI or more.
#6 the plugs if wet are fouled out Plus the plugs need to be good and clean. Auto lite 437 are the preferred plug
That is what I am struggling with.....that initial shot of gas to the cylinder. It has plenty of "suck", enough to leave a ring on the palm of your hand. Just doesn't want to take any fuel. Gas flows freely to carb.....after cranking gas will run out of carb intake with intake hose off.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Not unless it"s a Blue spark. And at the right time also.
RandyB(MI)
Well-known Member
Well nothing went wrong 3 wks ago when it wouldn't start and then "fixed itself" just for last weekend just to make you happy for a day and then just broke again to make you mad. If it started and ran perfect last weekend then nothing is "worn out". You don't want to hear it but put a set of points and new condenser back in there. If nothing more it will eliminate that elect ign module out of the equation. They are sealed solid state and probably made in China so there's a chance of an intermittent problem there.That's the one thing that can "change" and you can't see or tell it. Fuel and fire will make it at least bang. Re-check your plug wires firing order and squirt good amount of fuel into intake end of carb. If it started and ran perfect last weekend then it isn't old gas, worn out rings, broke dist. , timing, plugged carb/manifold or stuck valve or any of that. Let us know what you finally find. We all still have learning to do. RB
Since you said you converted to electronic ignition, are you sure the distribuitor is in correct time- not 180 deg. off- and the spark plug wires are in their proper places on the distribuitor? I am not familiar with Fords, but I was thinking on some of the "N models you had to remove the distribuitor to do much inside it. . . .
RandyB(MI)
Well-known Member
hadn't seen your last posts. Disreguard al lot of my post then. I'd still put points back in.
gene bender
Well-known Member
So if you have spark and gas it just must not be in time or it would start and run.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
coil. Makes it "HOT"!!
Dave H (MI)
Well-known Member
I dunno, from what you are saying I keep coming back to the same thing. I have to do the diagnostic thing and don't replace parts on spec. Just as likely nowadays to get a bad part and they are expensive. Are you cranking with the air cleaner disconnected? If not, then your suction test is maybe incorrect because you may have ice or such in the air cleaner. My 2N acts like yours in extremely cold weather. Gas vapor just turns into liquid and runs back into the carb and floods it, running out the air cleaner hose. I don't know squat about electronic ignition, but my memory is that the distributor is front mount, keyed to correct time and pretty much idjit proof. I would still check timing but you will need someone with more N-ferd experience than me to walk you thru it. First though, if at all possible, take it in the shop and see if you can start it after it has warmed up a little.
RandyB(MI)
Well-known Member
That's just the problem, Gene, it does run and runs perfect. Just when it wants to.
RandyB(MI)
Well-known Member
nother thing I havn't seen you mention...have you tried pull starting it. If that works then that narrows it down some.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
So when you have you hand on the carb and spin it over does you hand get covered in gas??? If no then that is where your problem is and the carb is clogged up. With the suction your hand should have gas on it when you do that
Steve@Advance
Well-known Member
Restricted exhaust?
Will it run on starting fluid? If it will, that
proves it's a fuel problem, as long as it's not
flooded.
Will it run on starting fluid? If it will, that
proves it's a fuel problem, as long as it's not
flooded.
gene bender
Well-known Member
OK it does run not very long so hook up a volt meter to the input of the dist. When it dies does it still have voltage to the dist. I would make sure the fuel from the tank has a good flow. Disconnect the line at the carb and watch the flow for at least a minute or so making sure the flow is constant. Rite now you need to find out if its a fuel problem or electric easier said than done but you do need to find out which is the culprit. I let at least a gal flow to make sure i dont have a fuel problem.
so,sounds to me that you have fuel to the carb,but not through the carb? maybe it is full of ice,or the float/needel valve is clogged or stuck or frozen? 1st thing you could try is just lay an incandecant style trouble light on the carb and warm it, That up might be enough to thaw it out after it has warmed up you might givr it a tap(lightly)with a small hammer to jar things loose sometimes stuff sticks or you might have to rebuild and clean out the carb.It cant be too hard to re do one of those
showcrop
Well-known Member
One way that you are going wrong is in being sure that you are getting enough gas. I have two newer 4 cyl gas Fords. I have noticed that any time that they don't fire up pretty quickly, especially the one that is six volts, when cold, that gas will run out of the carburetor. ALWAYS. I believe that this is just a fact of gravity with an updraft carb. So don't let this be an indication of getting too much gas because it is normal. A cold motor needs a very strong gas mixture in order to fire, especially in very cold weather. I don't see anything in your information about cranking speed, which is always going to be slower when it is colder. I also don't see anything about setting timing. Setting timing for an electronic ignition is very different from points. I had this situation last year with one of mine. I tried to static time it and got way off. You should probably make some reference marks on the bottom of the distributor and try different settings. You will probably need to watch the number one plug to see when it fires while turning by hand.
How are you checking the spark? My 3020 had a bad coil and acted like yours is acting (although, if I cranked it long enough, the plugs would get wet).
Beautiful spark if I pulled a plug and grounded it to the engine. Fat. Blue, could jump quite a bit. However, under compression, inside the engine, it just wasn't sparking. Inline spark tester indicated this, old coil had it running like a champ.
Beautiful spark if I pulled a plug and grounded it to the engine. Fat. Blue, could jump quite a bit. However, under compression, inside the engine, it just wasn't sparking. Inline spark tester indicated this, old coil had it running like a champ.
OK you said that you had fuel flow to the carb by pulling the line. What you need to do now is pull the plug on the bowl of the carb and see if you have flow there. Has to be a steady stream for a minute or so. That will confirm that the needle isn't stuck shut and that gas is getting into bowl. When you are putting your hand over the mouth of the carb and cranking for 15-30 seconds you should come away with a little gas on your hand.
You say you have cleaned the carb. Did you blow compressed air (spray carb cleaner with the tube will work too) to make sure all the passages are clear?
Rick
You say you have cleaned the carb. Did you blow compressed air (spray carb cleaner with the tube will work too) to make sure all the passages are clear?
Rick
Disconnect your air cleaner from your carb. Place your hand over the intake on the carb and turn it over. Do you fell a suction on your hand, you should. If you are able to start it that way, you may have water in your air cleaner that have frozen into ice cutting off your air flow. Had that happen to my 2N this year.
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