Driveway construction recommendations

Need advice on building a new 600 foot residential driveway in southern Illinois across an open grass field. Some have advised to just use geotextile fabric and the same grade driveway rock on top. Others have said forget the fabric and use a heavier rock as a base and to top off with smaller rock on top. I'm probably 30 minuets or less away from a rock quarry. Any other suggestions appreciated. Hey, it is tractor related because at least one of my tractors will be involved in construction! Thanks!

I us o work form companies that build roads and hwys even. If I where you I would never use larger rock they float in mud. Yes they will float mud has a higher density the rocks do. I would start with a good layer of what here in Missouri is called dirty base and top that with 1-1.5 dirty. That mix comes close to getting concrete hard with driving over it time and again

I assume different regions use different base materials. In central New York - shale is usually the #1 choice for a base in a new driveway. Dump truck brings it in and it gets spread with a dozer.

Fabric will give more support, usually its needed due to the sub soil conditions being not so suitable. What kind of subsoils do you have, are they stable ? If not I would consider fabric, or rubble - large crushed stone/gravel for a sub base or both. What kind of loading is to be expected on the road, passenger car, pick-up truck, anything heavy - ie; if there is an ongoing building project at the other end, concrete, material and other heavy trucks.

Will it ever be paved ?

Once the top soil is stripped, it should be vibratory rolled, this will tell you if its got problems, pumping water, soft or what have you, if not like around here, will just compact whats on top and disturbed. Then place the sub-base material, compact 95% or better, depending on moisture, other conditions etc. Then place your crusher run, in NY a common name is Item #4, NYS DOT specified, grade it so it has a crown for water to shed off, compact and its done. You also need to eliminate any drainage problems near and around the road bed, culvert pipe or grade the surface, use a ditch etc., so it can't wash or saturate the road bed,

I've always had the silly idea of using portland cement in the crusher run, mixing in place with a tiller or something, then grade/compact, to get the crusher run to bind stronger, not like concrete but better than it can on its own. Far fetched idea, but I have done it on a small scale, can work if done properly the right amount/proportion of portland is used and you can moisten it, but not too much like a heavy down pour.

In this area and in NJ I built a fair amount of roads, often times the top soil was stripped and gravel or crusher run was placed, graded and compacted, residential developments and homes mostly, subsoils were suitable for building on. I've worked on water logged and roads abounded by water too, changes things quite a bit when things are soft.

I had a 800 foot long driveway put in, 16 years ago.

1. I hired a guy with an excavating machine to remove the top 6-8 inches of topsoil and grass.

2. Then, 100 yards of fill sand.
3. Then, 120 yards of 1 x 3 limestone.
4. After driving on it for a year, then
I capped it with crushed limestone,
and aggregate. (another 60 yards)

Total cost ....not cheep, My driveway was able to standup to concrete trucks, dump trucks, lumber delivery trucks.
Laying Geo-tex fabric over grass is wrong.
If you go this route you are essentially building a gravel driveway over grass and mud.
If you spread the gravel and fill sand yourself
then you will cut down on labor costs.
See what that quarry will charge you for
crushed rock, delivered in their trucks.

Pull the topsoil and grass first ! Unless you like beating your head against a wall. Doing that simple step will help you years to come.

IMHO and with 20 years of street roadway and dirt work experience; Your driveway will last longer, have little to no pumping and few if any potholes if you use a geotextile material. I am speaking of a fabric, not the geo-grid material that looks like plastic snow fence or construction barricade fence.Best case would be to excavate down 4 to 6 inches then pace the fabric. Make sure to overlap fabric a foot to eighten inches. Start backing trucks in and dumping and grading as you go. This will be very expensive. gobble

After a lifetime in the excavating business you can't be using a geotextile fabric. The reason for most soft spots is from heavy traffic pumping water/mud up throught the granular base during thawing cycles or heavy rainys periods. It's inexpensive and easy to work with and if the situation permits you can lay it over sod if you want. The fabric permits water to pass through but keeps the silt out of the base. If you are going to be driving equipment and trucks on your drive, I would go with 6" of 1" to 3" rock topped with 6" of 3?4" to fines gravel...CA 6 or grade 9 stone. It will last for a lifetime.

Billy NY; I was involved in an airport runway project where after placing crushed stone over geotextile material an asphalt paver placed a lean concrete limestone mix 1/2-3/4 clean. Looked like a rice crispie bar from the top and side. It 4-6 inches, Provided a very drainable yet structurally sound base for the runway. You could probably find it on an FFA website. gobble

Before you do anything, shoot the grade, make sure water is going to run away from your road. If you have to, put in a ditch. The last thing you want is water on the road.

Some here have the right idea, strip the topsoil. If you are not going thru low or wet areas leave the geo fabric in the roll. If you are going to have it done, ask the contractor what is the best stone for your area. Up here we would use 1 1/4 crushed rock with fines for a residential drive and it would be at the same grade as the ground around it. IMHO Jim

I used fine crushed asphalt as a top layer. Roto-mill off the old highways.
It softens in the sun and packs down in to a hard, fairly smooth
surface to drive on. Some still gets plowed off in the winter, but
not much compared to the gravel that I had before.

You'll need to build it heavy enough that the trucks can back in to dump. The trucks backing in and the dozer grading should be enough compaction for a residential drive. If they are typical dump jockey's you'll need to make sure they don't back off the gravel that's there and tear up the fabric, likely will need the dozer in their way to stop them.

"We don't know if it will hold you and there's utilities about 3 inches down along the edge of the pavement. Just dump on the pavement and we can push it where we need it" only serves as a challenge to see if they can wad up your fabric, and get to and tear up the utility lines.

We always cut down to clay, cut the length to a uniform depth, layed out the fabric, and dumped rock and/or gravel on it. Don't know about other parts of the country but where I grew up using sand, you may as well not bother and just run across the grass.

Around here, for about 355 days a year, you can get away with just driving across the grass.

I live close to you I think. If you do it now will take probably twice the rock as will later after has dried up. We made a 1300 ft driveway for my son about 3 yrs ago. I bladed the topsoil off, and made ditches down both sides. Probably has had a dozen semi loads of Ca6 (3/4 rock with fines) and Ca 7 (1 in clean) put on it. With all the freezing and thawing has fell through. But the oil and chip road out front has took a beating also. My daughter just down the road has a 300 ft at most new drive and has put as much rock on it. It is fine but rock is probably 2 ft deep. Neither one used a mat. Probably should have. But if you don't put enough rock on the mat will have a real mess. I have seen this happen at oil rigs. I have always just bought as much rock as I could afford and did it every year! Vic

strip out the grass and topsoil--too much organics and fine grains (silt) in the soil. Then course stone and then finer stone to lock it all together.

After reading of everyone's expensive driveways I'm glad I can use the one I have as-is with no problems here in south Ga. Plain old dirt. TDF

You could do a hybrid system of fabric, CA6 limestone and top it with regrind (milled asphalt). I see an ad on Craigslist all the time from a fellow near Johnston City with regrind to sell - maybe comes from the perpetual work on I-57 between Marion and Mt Vernon.

After we moved in to this house years ago I needed to do the rear driveway on the cheap. I brought the ASV home from work, cut 3" topsoil out, fabric and 3" of 2A back in compacted. Solid as a rock years later although the snow plow slowly scraping layers off in the winter will have to be replaced soon.
If you're able to put a base of #4's in with a layer of 2A over that, that would be ideal.

Just make sure you get all of the grass and roots out of it and ditch it so the water drains away. I would then put a good layer of breaker run and grade it. Then put a layer of road gravel on it. If money was tight just put a thin coat on and every year add a little more. My drive is old but I put a new layer of gravel on it every 2 to 3 years. Also I have found that if you keep the grass and weeds from growing in the drive it will last a lot longer.

Bob

18 years ago, I built my house on an old pasture field ridge line. Made a 1000 foot long gravel drive using the advice of the home builders who were from the area and assured me they knew what they were doing. Had the dozer guy remove the top soil and sod down to about 6-8 inches. The soil is so high in clay content that it wouldn't perk for a lateral septic system. Then we put down large limestone stone 3-4 inches as a base. Ran over it several times with trucks and the dozer to compact it and then added a 4 inch layer of 3/4ths and fines-it's what they use here in Iowa for the county gravel roads. I did not use the fabric as they told me the large stones would make a solid base and the fabric was a waste of money. Well all the 3-4 inch limestone base does is migrate to the top and make me have to replace mower blades every year no matter how careful I am in mowing. In a few places I was able to use my tractor bucket and remove the large stone base. I then put in the 3/4th and fines. Those areas are in great shape and they compact to nearly a concrete hardness. After 18 years I still have the big stones migrating upward ruining my drive. I wish I had used fabric and only the 3/4th fines for my drive from the beginning.

Build the base correct remove organic matter drain as needed with tile etc use geotextile fabric.

Strip topsoil put in larger stone 2 or 3 inch size about 10 foot wide as needed until house is done the trucks will pack it down good, then top it with 3/4 inch crusher run stone. I have hauled a lot of stone for driveways.

Good plan. Strip down 7 to8 inches or until there is sub soil, Put the top soil on both sides to make a berm 2 inches high where the road stone will be. When the 3/4 inch (we call it road base, or ABC with fines) is placed, back fill the top soil carefully to contain the crushed stone. Crown the top with 3 to 4 inches of height in the center of 10 ft width. Jim

Fabric was never used on any roads that I worked on. I saw it used once where a road was put across a swamp. It all depends on how much moisture you have. If there is moisture under the road it will destabilize the gravel and heavy vehicles will make the sub material move. Subdivision regs in all the towns where I have worked on roads require underdrain through all cuts. It doesn't sound like you will be cutting. Just recognize that anyplace where water could collect that you need to provide it a way out. Regs here require removal of topsoil, 12 inches of sand so that water can't collect, then ten inches of compacted gravel.

The first three most important requirements for building a driveway or road is, Drainage, Drainage, and Drainage. As per PennDot - LTAP Training.

Yea, I know, we have some of the worst roads in the country.

Gary, I "think" I remember your neighbor using fabric on his new lane. I can't remember his name - he worked for the same people you and I worked for. His lane is on the inside of the curve across from the Paul Ice road. It was a low lying area with what looked like marginal drainage. First name is Kevin maybe?? Good kid.

We used fabric a few times in problem areas, usually after trouble had already developed, and I was always skeptical, but it always did what they said it would do. Ditches are important. The material that you remove to make the ditches can be used to elevate your roadway. I like 2 inch open graded (no fines) for base material, then CA-6 or CA-10 for surface. If you use material with fines for the base - it will be like a big mattress if your subgrade is soft. Good luck - might be nasty for the next few days :~)

I have built a lot of roads on the farm in the last few years. Drainage is important. If you have a lot of slope, (road running up and down hills) the water will run down the road and carry the gravel to the bottom, very expensive. You need to get the water off the sides before it becomes a stream.

If you can, remove the top soil, but if it is very flat that effectively puts the road in a ditch, with no place for the water to go.

Use Geo cloth, $360 for a 360 ft roll, 12 feet wide. Worth every penny. Keeps the base in place, gravel won't sink into the mud. With gravel running $300 a 22 ton load, you want it on the road, not sinking into the ground.

I don't like #2 stone, old timers swear by it but that was before geo cloth. I use "crushed stone base" then top it with "dense grade". Don't build a road out of uniform rock, like 57's. The rocks are so uniform that they don't lock together, they roll around like marbles. I won't make that mistake again. Use something like crushed stone base, lots of diffent sizes to lock together.

I found lots of road building experts, at least they thought they were. I found out through trial and error, some expensive errors. Do it wrong and you will get to do it over, and over and over.

I poured my 300' driveway in cement 20 years ago. It had been gravel for 20 years prior to that. Still don't have a crack the entire length. Neighbors with similar conditions who paid for asphalt are all redoing theirs. Figure out a way to do cement and you will never look back.

From an engineering standpoint....Remove the topsoil,then add geotech fabric. Then put down 75% of the lime dust/crushed stone dense grade (some here call it dirty), compact it in, then top off with either dense grade or "road gravel". Most important part is to make sure the center is crowned and ditching the sides if required for proper drainage. You can put down anything you want, but if you can't divert the water all else is wasted.