Off topic: buickanddeere...very long, military

Buickanddeere,

I am unsure of your Naval nuclear experience, education, discipline; however, as an enlisted man, I taught at nuclear prototype, enlisted and officer alike.

One of my favorite "student"s, was a commander that ranked higher that the CO of the nuclear base I was at.

That (student)commander was incredibly intelligent, resourceful, and polite. I was an intimidated E5, training a future CO. I know there may have been dire military circumstances that could arise during training evolutions.

This man had the knowledge and wisdom not to further frighten me with the military chain of command. He expressed his sincere desire to learn what I was trained to do under direct order from the engineering officer of the watch.

He offered to act as any other student would, enlisted included. I was in a difficult situation. I was an E5, assigned to training a seasoned 04(?)! That was an important meeting in my military career.

He assured me that required respect applied in all aspects of military operations. I acknowledged that with a "Yes Sir".

He also made it known to me that there were exceptions to military chain of command, but little exercised; "situational authority". In short, he talked to me that he would act as a student (subordinate) during training; I was to be the instructor I was trained to be, and the "sir" was to be part of the context, but not to preclude good training.

He met me again in his career as the officer that granted me the E6 stripes. He smiled greatly and gave me a wonderful handshake and congratulations, after my salute.

I now have a better understanding of your responses.

That commander has shaped a lot of how I deal with folks. A great lesson for a young person to have experienced.

I will sum this up in a few words, good men come from many differing sources, and they are recognizable, polite, and understanding of their surroundings and influence.

Thanks for letting me go on.

D.

My brother in law retired from Nuclear Reactors in washington, I think it was actually Crystal City. I heard him chewing out a higher ranking officer than him because of a lost "Drawer", needed for a subs fast cruise. My bil was a submariner.

I had a similar experience, though not of that exstreme level. As an E3 I was an instructor at an army signal school. One of my students was an E7. 22 years old. Sharp as a whip. Soldier through and through. I had a great deal of respect for him. Never heard of or about him again, but I'm sure he did well.

Areo

I had officers that I had a lot of respect for and I had some I didn't care for. When I as overseas I was on an Army Depot and the Col of the depot was a man that I had a lot of respect for. He was a down to earth person but still the same he want respect he earned. I was always being requested by him to do odd jobs and go pick up whatever. I talked with the first sergant on day and asked him why I was always getting picked for these jobs. He told me that the Col trusted and respected me and when he needed something done he knew it would get done without someone having to check on it. While there on my last birthday there I got a card from him with a letter explaining to me why he always picked me out. In this letter was a requist for me to report to his office in dress uniform with the first sergant. To say I was s### my pants would be an under statement. When we got there what he wanted was to have a drink for my. birthday. I learned a lot about this man that not many people knew and I think of him often to this day. When I left for my next duty assignment I had over 30 letters of appreciation in my file. At the time I left I was a SSG E 6 and in charge of the movement section. I think of how someone with a difference in time in service and rank could treat a lower ranking em like an equal. When he left this post he went on to Washington

In the Marine Corps, I found I could speak with a General as easily as with a Private. Sometimes it worked in my favor, sometimes the other way.

There are two distinct types of Generals. One type expects you to be shaking in your boots at talking to a real, live General. The other type throws rank out the window and says, "Let's get the job done".

I was a company clerk in a basic training unit at Ft Knox 64-66. My 1st sergeant retired in 65 with 32 years and 71 years old. He had been in WW1 got out and with the depression, reinlisted. He said the officers put their pants on the same way you do. I was older than the next to last CO I worked for. I then went to brigade and did the work with another clerk. We each had 2 companies apiece. I worked for a sergeant major with a RO serial number. He was a Lt Colonel in the reserves from a battlefield commission. I was very lucky about the people I worked for and to be sent there.

Areo,

E3 to O7? You'd have to be somewhat intimidated! How else would the military keep everything in order?

D.

A comment from the other side, I left the Air Force as an O-3 with a regular commission. The thing I miss the most is dealing with enlisted personnel, overall most career NCOs I dealt with were true professionals, to some extent more professional than the a lot of Field grade officers I dealt with. The three most significant things I was able to get done while in the Air Force- getting one of my A1C's promoted to SRA below the zone (early), seeing the SSGT that was my branch NCOIC get a line number for TSGT, the only one in hes career field that year, then writing an APR that got him the higher headquarters assignment that would facilitate him being able to finish his career as an E-8 or E-9. And getting a permanently de-certified SSGT reassigned to another career field that better matched his skills and abilities. The raw talent and ability of the Air Force enlisted ranks is truly awe inspiring, to be able to lead them was truly an honor.

Dennis. Thanks but I'm rather humbled actually. My rank of Captain of the Emergency response team was in a civilian nuclear faculty.
I'm just a peon on the tools at another nuclear facility which is much closer to home.
The most nerve racking class I ever taught and accessed was a class of 35 female clerks for 1st Aid. Turns out everybody else dodged and assignment and I was voluntold . Feelings varied from feeling like the only rooster in the henhouse to feeling like a grasshopper in the middle of the henhouse.

As a two striper instructor in ballistic missile propulsion systems (mainly Atlas) I had occasion to instruct 4 generals in one class. The class was on missile orientation. The Atlas was our first ICBM. Also had a 2nd Lt in the class who kept interupting with his VAST knowledge of the subject. The ranking general had enough and told the guy to sit down and shut up because I outranked everyone in the class when I was in front. The general informed him that I just had to give the normal respect and courtisies due an officer. Talk about a deflated ego!

In the Army in a school environment it is always a student instructor relationship. Yes you have to treat anyone who outranks you with due respect but you are the instructor and in charge. That means you have to address them by rank or call them sir/mam but they have to follow your instructions. I spent 4 years teaching armor tactics to officers. Fun job!

I'd be willing to bet it's the same in all the branches where an enlisted man or NCO is the instructor. Don't see how it could work any other way. As an instructor I was charged with training the officers assigned to me to standards and when in the field was also responsible for their safety and wellbeing (making sure they ate, did personal hygiene or saw a medic if sick or injured).

Rick

(quoted from post at 19:44:32 02/19/14) A comment from the other side, I left the Air Force as an O-3 with a regular commission. The thing I miss the most is dealing with enlisted personnel, overall most career NCOs I dealt with were true professionals, to some extent more professional than the a lot of Field grade officers I dealt with. The three most significant things I was able to get done while in the Air Force- getting one of my A1C's promoted to SRA below the zone (early), seeing the SSGT that was my branch NCOIC get a line number for TSGT, the only one in hes career field that year, then writing an APR that got him the higher headquarters assignment that would facilitate him being able to finish his career as an E-8 or E-9. And getting a permanently de-certified SSGT reassigned to another career field that better matched his skills and abilities. The raw talent and ability of the Air Force enlisted ranks is truly awe inspiring, to be able to lead them was truly an honor.

Click to expand...

It's not just Air Force E/M folks.Although I'm former AF I worked for a defense contractor and worked with vets from all branches except Coast Guard. With very few exceptions they were all very willing and good,conscientious workers.

(quoted from post at 19:07:26 02/19/14) In the Marine Corps, I found I could speak with a General as easily as with a Private. Sometimes it worked in my favor, sometimes the other way.

There are two distinct types of Generals. One type expects you to be shaking in your boots at talking to a real, live General. The other type throws rank out the window and says, "Let's get the job done".

Click to expand...

I had the same experience in the Corps. You had good ones and bad ones in all ranks. As a general rule the best guys to work for were either Mustangs or CWO's. They'd been enlisted, understood the games and were uniformly bright and not too taken with themselves. The Annapolis crowd was a bit different. Pilots could often be among the best of the best for some reason. A stuck at rank, time in grade type 1st Lt or Captain could be the worst person in the world to deal with. So could some Gunnys or S/Sgts that had 16-17 years in. They either blew it somehow or were just biding their time. They could be miserable.

I guess I envied the experiences of all of the above posters. My experience was not all that honorable as a draftee. I was trained to work as a company clerk. And then a military infraction brought that to a quick stop. And the thought of being shipped to Korea---, or being a boiler fireman---were the options I was staring at. Next thing I knew, I was assigned to a JAG's office as a clerk, with a "Secret" classification. (No re-upping for me after the two years)

Never much cared for officers, all they ever did is sit around and figure out new and brutal ways to get me killed.

(quoted from post at 05:56:06 02/20/14)

(quoted from post at 19:07:26 02/19/14) In the Marine Corps, I found I could speak with a General as easily as with a Private. Sometimes it worked in my favor, sometimes the other way.

There are two distinct types of Generals. One type expects you to be shaking in your boots at talking to a real, live General. The other type throws rank out the window and says, "Let's get the job done".

Click to expand...

I had the same experience in the Corps. You had good ones and bad ones in all ranks. As a general rule the best guys to work for were either Mustangs or CWO's. They'd been enlisted, understood the games and were uniformly bright and not too taken with themselves. The Annapolis crowd was a bit different. Pilots could often be among the best of the best for some reason. A stuck at rank, time in grade type 1st Lt or Captain could be the worst person in the world to deal with. So could some Gunnys or S/Sgts that had 16-17 years in. They either blew it somehow or were just biding their time. They could be miserable.

Click to expand...

Bret, the "mustangs" I dealt with were a pain in the butt. Most had been NCO's and once commissioned couldn't help but try to do their job as an officer and then our jobs as NCOs. They were great for the enlisted guys because most remembered what it was like so they steered clear of the stupid busy work stuff. Once I became a PSG that ceased to be a problem because I could tell the OCS/mustang officer where to head it in at.

Rick