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Tractor 4haying hobby farm

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Hobby farmer!

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Getting back into doing our own hay since "Big Farmer" gave raw deal & 1st crop (late July) was sticks, 2nd crop Oct. & rain! (Has been getting more aggravating every year). Anyway, we need advice on equip &tractor. Thinking 2 buy a 1958 model Allis Chalmers D17. Any advice on if these are OK older tractors? We have 27 acres and it maybe isn't real cost-efficient to do our own, but it is getting real old being left til last and watching the once-beautiful hay turned to straw before it is made. It's been years since we made our own & have to get all the equip again. Haybine, rake, baler all need 2 be purchased. We were only getting 1/3 of the hay but we got the impression that the hay guy wasn't doing right by us (giving us the hay from the weedier parts of the fields, for example, or the wettest bales, etc). We don't have enough hay to get our animals through the winter & should've had plenty. Any equip or tractor features/ makes you'd recommend ? Thanks for allowing me to blow off steam!
 
I'm a bit biased to Case, but if you go for a 470 or 570 diesel with all the goodies, you get 188 cu. inch motor, hand and foot throttle, alternator instead of generator, easy starting, negative ground compared to the D-17, 8 speed transmission, diff lock, iso couplers, draft-o-matic 3 point hitch (not eagle hitch or AC's snap lock), hydrostatic power steering (not an add on), fully independent pto (you can stand behind the tractor to run an auger or run a wire winder), 2 sets of hydraulics (opt), some have power shift wheels, (you may want to spread them out for straddling windrows or put them in narrow for tillage or storage), you can easily fit them with an upright muffler or an under slung if you need to get it into a small shed or under trees when brush hogging, they accept a loader very easily and you can still steer it, and they're fun to just take for a drive! Good road gear. Easy handling. But most of all, they're a simple vintage inexpensive tractor to own and operate yet have all the modern conveniences listed above. A LATE model 430/530 will be the same thing except for the alternator and the iso couplers. The generators always work for me on my 30 series so not a big deal and they make adapters for the couplers. Some guys just change them over to iso if they don't care to keep the tractor as original equipment.
I put many an hour on a 1957 D-17 diesel and I feel the Case is a better tractor, but it is 10 years newer so.....
 
I spent hundreds of hours on a D-15 pulling a new holland 273 haybaler and to me it was the best tractor I ever used to bale with, the hi-low with nuetral beats riding a foot clutch. Baled with MF, and JD but they just did not cut it for me and the D series.
 
Did the same d 15 loved the set up but get
somebody to help you differnt story .also like
said above you dont have 3 pt .love the ac but
you might be better with a differnt tractor got
oliver after the allis lot easier for other
people to drive .
 
You do not tell us what the hay will be feed to. I would not go back to small square bales , too hard to find labour to put them away in timely fashion. Go with round bales. You can pick up a 70's 180-190 Alis or a IH 866-966, Oliver 1850,or the like for about the same money as the D-17 , and you can run any hay equipment with these. Round bales will require a loader or 3pth spear but, these tractors will be large enough to handle everything. You can bale a lot more hay in one day with a round baler than a square small baler, and you don't have to get them under cover that same day.
 
Unless you've gotten yourself "locked in" by
contract with this supplier, I think it would be
more economical to switch to a different supplier.
You're current supplier can't be the ONLY supplier
in your area.

Just my humble opinion.

Doc :>)
 
I'm guessing horses, and round bales just don't work for them- horses are kept in individual stalls, and there isn't a convenient way to feed a big bale in that situation.
 

(reply to post at 06:49:45 02/15/14)
Click to expand...
ust need one of these for feeding round bales. It spins and lets you peel off a little at a time.
morebalespear004.jpg


Connects to skid steer universal quick hitch and can be moved around. It makes feeding small amounts much easier.

Unreeler.jpg
 
Best money I ever spent haying is on a tedder (cuts a day off drying time) and a bale accumulator and grapple. I found a used set for around $6K and put the grapple on a skid steer mount. Works great on my Cat 236, but works great on any loader and you only need 1 or two helpers!

Tractors? I use an Oliver 1655 with a 3 speed.
 
Yes, a D17 would be a good choice. It does have live PTO (using the hand clutch) and the hydraulics should lift a Haybine. The older D17 uses the same high pressure piston type pump that was on the WD.
I wish you were my neighbor. I'd put up your hay on halves and be glad to.
 
Is your 27 acres already hay or would you have to plant it to hay - that would be part of the cost also.
 
A D17 is a decent tractor for making small squares. Made quite a few with the neighbors back in the early 80's.
They are usually a bit cheaper than some of the other colored tractors out there and have enough power to get the job done.
If a deal presented itself I wouldn't hesitate.
 
I know you are frustrated and I am not sure where you are located but I had one Sunday morning in late June to bale hay last year. I remember calling a friend and giving him 30 acres already cut because I couldn't get there. I would think about it again before buying all that equipment.
 
Check the transmission,there known for jumping out of gear usually second or third.The repair can be more than the tractors worth.
 
The only thing to check on a D-17 Series 1, would be to check out
3rd gear, put it in 3 hi or lo, pull the heaviest trailer type load you
can find, and crest the top of a hill, going down the hill like you
would normally drive. When the load starts pushing you, does the
transmission shift itself into neutral? Otherwise, on that tractor, it
uses a high pressure 3500 PSI, about 4 GPM pump. This is too
much for some newer cylinders, you might have to buy cylinders to
match the output. Oh, and check the bolts in the bottom of the
tranny that hold the hitch on. they work loose, occasionally...
 
I agree with others, sq baling seems to thin out people who will help. This last year in our area,SC KY hay was hard to get up because of the weather. Just as it was ready it would mist/rain on it. so if you ran it anyway, you get spots that are moldy. As for buying accumalators,skidsteer, and all the rest of equipment, that is a lot of $$ to have invested in equipment. Maybe you can figure out how to extend you grazing season and feed small total amount of hay and just buy it. how much longer could you graze if you just stockpile what is your normal acreage for hay.... and graze that late into the fall. split and rotate you regular pasture even on just a weekly move with increase grass, give the grass a much needed rest and extend the grass longer into the fall. good luck, KB
 
I agree with the tedder suggestion. I don't always use
it, but when theres a small weather window or it gets
rained on, it's nice. I put up about the same amount
of hay and square bale most of it. When I can't find
the help or time, I have 3 neighbors with round
balers I can rent/hire them to do it.
 
(quoted from post at 06:02:28 02/15/14) I agree with the tedder suggestion. I don't always use
it, but when theres a small weather window or it gets
rained on, it's nice. I put up about the same amount
of hay and square bale most of it. When I can't find
the help or time, I have 3 neighbors with round
balers I can rent/hire them to do it.
Click to expand...

You are not telling us what the other equipment is going to be or what else the tractor may be used for. Rounds? Small Squares? Loader needed? Need 3 point? Ect.

I myself find the AC power director to be a sorry 2nd place for true independent PTO. Another thing before you purchase any tractor, what's the dealer support like in your area? My local dealers are by driving distance AGCO (very poor support for older equipment) CaseIH and JD (decent support) Kubota (Decent support). If you have hay on the ground and need a that is not the time find out that your support for your equipment is non existent. Same applies to your hay equipment.

Rick
 
It's not surprising that you were screwed over by "Big Farmer".
What surprises me more is that our culture tends to suggest that
somehow farmers are paragons of virtue, when in reality they
reflect the cross section of modern day values. Some farmers are
trustworthy..some are not. Perhaps you can find another more
trustworthy farmer to handle your 27 acres of hay. If not I'll give
you my 2 cents. A D17 is a great old tractor but the gas job will
consume copious amounts of fuel. If the tractor has been
abused, the transmission collars may be worn/damaged and the
transmission will tend to slip out of gear under load..change of
directions, etc. The D-14/15 may be a better choice gas wise,
but the transmissions may have the same problems. Rollabar
side rakes(I call them hay beaters) are generally inexpensive if
they need some work along with Haybines which have been left
outside. Small square balers in good shape are not cheap. One of
our local machinery dealers rents large round balers... if you
have storage , maybe that's the way to go. Don't get me
wrong..you can fine serviceable equipment..you just need to take
your time and if you are not mechanically inclined..find a friend
who is and take him/her along to look at the stuff. However, it
might be a bit easier to just find a trustworthy farmer. Weedy patches in your hay field suggests years of late cutting and no second/third, etc cutting/cleanup. Native grasses/legumes will take over the weedy patches over time, but you need to cut the hay early..and multiple time per year..or at least clip the weedy patches. Good luck.
 
Neighbor had 20 acres of bermuda he hayed every year with one.
It looked pretty ragged but it got the work done and I never saw
him working on it. Even buying 1960's vintage equipment, you
will have $10k at least to invest besides the tractor when
finished, plus production costs. My opinion is that you have to
want to self produce; not just do it for lack of availability of
someone to do it for you.

About 3 years ago I got back in after retiring and selling all my
equip. Had to buy high after selling better low....retailer has to
make a profit to stay in business and I kept my equip in tip top
shape. Decided no squares this time. Too old and no help to
fool with that again. Rolls only but I did buy a smaller roller that
rolls about 800# rather than 1800# bales.

Good Luck,
Mark
 
Unless you just like to make hay,I'd suggest
fencing the hay land to extend your grazing and cut the amount of hay you need and just buy some
large round bales as you'll usually get 3 or 4 times as much hay for the $$$ you spend over squares.Then buy it in the Summer out of the field and really get a deal sometimes.
 
i have four horse i need about 15 round bales to
get me thru winter .i store them inside then i
bring them in one at a time to the wifes horse barn
i then put them up on end cut the strings and she
just kinda unrolls it as she needs it and feeds
them in stalls with wall mount feeders works great
for us.i then sell the remaining bales to a
customer i have.
rick
 
Gotta go with Larry NEIL on this one. Find a good Oliver 770-880-1550-1600-1650-1655. You won't like that hand clutch live power deal on that D17 at all unless you grew up on one and are used to it.
 
I am in a similar spot. So many of us are. I"m wondering when the big equipment people are going to recognize the market for a small square baler that is "affordable" I know there are a couple from niche companies.

I have invested my time in forming good relationships with local people with equipment, skills, and motivation to work with. At the same time, I"m buying equipment very carefully. Mostly I will be baling using a ground drive PTO cart pulled by horses. (Go ahead with the jokes. I have a sense of humor.)

But looking for a tractor for backup. Fortunately, I work at our local tech college where I take the thing for repairs.
 
I had sold my hay standing for a couple of years and like you I was disappointed. The buyer would come to my farm in late august and one year he came in September and because of wet weather he did not cut all of it. Left me with 50 acres of standing hay that I had to cut with my rotary cutter.
I had a tractor but no other haying equipment so off to the auctions I went. I bought a lot more equipment than I needed so I started to sell some and that led to a business of buying and selling farm stuff.
I do have some haying equipment that would meet your needs but I am not trying to sell you any.
As far as tractors go I would look for a Massey/Ferguson or a ford or some other brand that you can get parts for and get a diesel. If you buy a tractor with a gas engine it will always be out of fuel [gas does not store as well as diesel but you can buy it at any station] and if you buy it in cans it is a hazard to bring it home. Gas tractors tend to be sold cheaper than diesel but there is a reason for that.
Get someone who has a lot of experience and knowledge about tractors to help you inspect any equipment before any purchase.
Get a round baler and you will not be rushed to get the hay inside. Older New Holland round balers are selling under $3000 and they still do a good job. Just a little to slow for the BTO operators.
 
D17 will make you a good haying tractor. As A kid I had to run Ac, Jd, and the neighbors worthless no start 8n 2n 9n fords. I have Ac, Ford, Oliver now. Prefer the AC D17 for small bales, raking and mowing. The Ac 2 speed hand clutch is almost undestructable, get the right hydraulic cyl for it.
 
You have lots of options.
One is to build a small hay shed, get a big enough tractor to move round bales and buy the hay in rounds. You can easily cut the strings on bales and feed or bed stalls. All you need is a tractor and a hay spike.

two) buy tractor, mower and rake, cut and rake your own and have a neighbor custom bale. A good round baler can do that acreage in a couple hours. Then you can move them into shelter.

Three) If you decide to do it all, the whole job will require, tractor, mower, rake and baler plus wagons if you are doing squares. And...you better be a good mechanic because old balers are a constant repair job.

Around here you can expect to spend, Tractor (gas) $3500, Mower $2000, Rake $1000, Baler $2500, wagon $1000. Looks like $10,000

They are not pretty but old NH balers are cheap square or chain roller. A sickle mower will drive you crazy..so look for a drum mower, but you really don't need a haybine.

One last point. If you do it, do it in patches, 5 or 6 acres at a time. That way you won't get it all wet, and 5 acres is about all you can stack or move in a day anyway.

Mistakes are easy to make and expensive and I have made all of them.
 
My penny and a half thought. I certainly can appreciate your frustrations. As a commercial hay producer I know the cost of equipment, maintenance and time. If I was to start over I would consider only buying a tractor of 70 hp plus with a good loader or just a bale spear if you don't think you will be stacking that hay. Next piece would be a good usable hay rake. More hay is lost because somebody got in a hurry and raked hay to soon. I would want to control that aspect. Leaving cutting and baling to custom hire. These are the two highest maintenance pieces with a cost per acre that would far outweigh the cost of cutting the 27 acres. Just because the neighbor may have a baler that makes 1800 pound bales it is as easy as pushing a couple buttons and he can make you those 800 to 1000 pounders. A good workable baler and haybine are going to cost you 8-10k for the pair. put 10% interest and depreciation to that you have $1000 add another $14 an acre in maintenance costs for those machines and you have another $400. There are benefits to doing your own. Do you have the flexible time? We understand you can't continue as you have been. Good luck
 
I don't know where you're shopping,but I farm exclusively with Olivers and one White. I switched to them from Deere out of pure frustration trying to get Deere parts from Deeremart. When you have cattle to feed and it takes two days to a week to get something simple and get it right,it's time for a change.
 
I don't know where you are located and how many or what type of livestock you own but have you considered putting the majority of your land in pasture? Let the animals harvest much of their own feed, keep your fertility in your soil, build the soil by growing cover crops or winter grazing if in a temperate zone, save on expense of putting up hay. Not that you don't need a tractor and equipment, just pointing out a few advantages to incresed grazing.
 
I could not get by with just one tractor for doing my hay. I have 2 set up for cutting 1 or 2 for raking and then 2 set up for baling. One on the big round baler and one on the square baler then the one with a loader. Do your own hay can add up real fast in $$ since you need at least 3 piece of equipment to do hay plus a tractor or 5
 
Dunno- for convenience, its sure hard to beat throwing a couple sheafs each down from the hay loft. Wife feeds at night, and sets up my morning feeding- takes me about 1 minute to feed 6 horses. Don't think I'd want to be rassling armloads from a round bale. And would have to build storage.

But we do use round bales when we go somewhere for a few days- have a friend who sells us 4X5 rounds for 20 bucks, we put one on end in the field, and it lasts them 4 days or so. If we're going to be gone longer, we get 2, leave one on the pickup parked undercover, and son stops by and puts it out when the first is gone.
 
Baling your own hay will require a large investment in equipment for only 27 acres. Will you need to do custom baling to pay off the investment?

Where are you located? If you are located in a humid area it could also require a substantical commitment of your time so you are ready to harvest when the weather allows. Unless you are a full time farmer or are retired it will mean burning many vacation days on short notice to cut and bale hay whenever the weather allows.

Will you have the capacity to put up the entire 27 acres in one day (cut one day & then bale it all two or three days later) or would you need to stagger it in smaller portions (cut in the mornings for several days and then bale in the afternoons for several more days)?

Have you looked into cash renting out your ground and then buying your hay else where during the summer months? That sounds counter-intuitive, but crunch the numbers. You might be able to have your hay needs delivered for less cost than you will receive in rent. You could have extra money in your pocket without investing anything in equipment or providing any labor. Of course you would miss out on all the "fun, risk, and drama" that goes with pulling up hay.

Good luck and have fun.
 
even though 27 acres seems 'small' it is actually a big part time job if doing hay. We do about 20 acres of small squares a year, 3 cuts, and we are busy at it all summer long. Then selling most of the winter. Keep us posted on what you decide to do.
 
A D-17 might be okay for small squares, don't know that you'd be happy with
them on large bales. The two tractor idea is sound and having them the same
makes parts availability easier as if you're having a bad day you do have an
in house can-bird. I think I'd go with a Ford 3000/4000 or a MF XX or 1XX
tractor or maybe a 1960's something Farmall (706/806) rather than an Allis. A
John Deere would serve you well but you'll pay more money for less tractor in
a new generation Deere. On the bright side a new generation Deere would be
easier to sell off if/when you decide to part with it. As every one else is
asking how involved do you want to be with this project, how much time and
money do you have to invest? If you've been feeding your stock on a 1/3 of
your crop what are you going to do with the additional hay you'll get by
doing your own and how involved do you want to be in getting rid of it? Your
target market on your surplus hay might steer you to bale size. How much
time?- if this excise for a farmer is all you can find can you recoup some of
your investment doing hay for others? Do you have kids at home that can and
are willing to work hay? That was common when I was a kid that high school
kids worked hay for pocket money, heck I even helped one of our neighbors
well into my college years but times change.
 
I put up about 20 acres twice a year in missouri and use a new holland 451 mower, new idea hay rake, new holland 268 baler, I have a backup for mower, rake and baler+another backup baler of close to the same quality. It was picked up over several years but initial purchase price on all of would have added up to about $2800.00. I use two ford 860 tractors and a ford 850 on the rake. About $4900.00 in the three tractors. You can take the field in sections and not wear youself out. Maybe I got lucky on some of the prices and have had some expenses on equipment but manageable. it can be done.
 
(quoted from post at 04:32:44 02/15/14) Is your 27 acres already hay or would you have to plant it to hay - that would be part of the cost also.
Click to expand...
Thanks everyone! I should have specified that there are currently about 14 acres in grass hay for our horses.
We may eventually plow and re-seed to get a better stand.

We decided to go ahead and put $ down on the D17, as it was in such good working condition and had been worked on by 2 very capable mechanics.
Now to find the other equipment to go with....
 
(quoted from post at 21:26:21 02/15/14)
(quoted from post at 04:32:44 02/15/14) Is your 27 acres already hay or would you have to plant it to hay - that would be part of the cost also.
Click to expand...
Thanks everyone! I should have specified that there are currently about 14 acres in grass hay for our horses.
We may eventually plow and re-seed to get a better stand.

We decided to go ahead and put $ down on the D17, as it was in such good working condition and had been worked on by 2 very capable mechanics.
Now to find the other equipment to go with....
Click to expand...

OK if it's such a good tractor why did require the services of 2 good mechanics?

Rick
 
10000 does seem to be a bit much.
2500 for a good 656
700 for a 24T baler that looks and runs like new.
350 ea for flat racks
Got a NI mower for 400 and a crimper for 250
but prefer to use the NH haybine I pulled out of the scrap pile along with a NI 5 bar rake.
I put new sections and rubber bushing on the sickle bar, a few new guards and a new chain on the rollers and belt on the reel its been ticking along for 6 years now without a problem.
Rebuilt the dolly wheel on the rake for small change and it's been worry free since as well.
We have done up to 80 acres in a year or as little as 1.
 
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