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Quality of deep-well water pumps

J

JDemaris

Well-known Member
I'm looking for a new deep-well pump for a house I'm working on. After looking at what's around for sale - my head is spinning a bit. Seems the days of US built pumps with bronze impellers is over? Like what used to come from companies like Demming, Burks, Goulds, Berkley, etc.

I see new pumps, 2 or 3 wire, 1/2 or 3/4 horse, 230 volts - in price ranges from $135 up to over $400. How the heck can a person ascertain which ones are better built inside? Seems most still have Franklin motors but the pumps all seem to mostly Asian with plastic impellers.

My house in NY got it's first deep-well pump in 1959, set at 200 feet. By 1992 - it still worked but started losing its prime. I stuck a bronze-impellered Gould pump in its place (3 wire, 3/4 horse). It's been fine since.

My place in northern Michigan got it's first pump in 1962 and it still works fine.

Now - I often hear of people changing out their pumps every 5-10 years. Are the pumps really failing that fast?

I looked around locally. Tractor Supply has their "CountryLine" 10 GPM 2-wire pump for $330. Home Depot has a 2 wire Flotec for $341. I can buy a new Shur-Dry 10 GPM pump - 2 wire or 3 wire for $140 from Surplus Sales. That's less then half the price of what's around locally. It may or may not be just as good. But how the heck does a person know before buying (not counting reading bogus reviews).
 
I have had the best luck out of Gould pumps. They are not cheap but I have not had one not last for decades.
 
How can a submersible pump lose it's prime? If the water level goes below the screen yes, but that is not the pumps fault. I bought a Flotec from Menards because it was a little smaller diameter and went down in a rusty 4" casing a lot easier than the one I pulled out. It ran fine for the 10 years before we sold the house. I wouldn't worry to much about what they are made of and look at the warranty, there is nothing wrong with non metallic impellers in the right application.
 
I had a 500' well in MT with a Red-Jacket brand Grisley. IT had 9 impellers all plastic. The only issue with plastic impellers is running dry (or in my case running in a pocket of natural gas, which is also dry) the startup load with plastic is much reduced, and the life expectancy is just fine.
Best of luck, Jim
A different brand.
 
Submersible pumps all have built in check-valves to prevent the pipe from draining back. When the valve goes bad - the pipe to the house drains back and emptys every time the pump shuts off. When there's 300-400 feet of pipe going to the house - losing that water is very noticable. The pipe has to refil before any water gets to the pressure-tank.
 
I've got a Goulds 3/4 horse pump I installed circa 1988 and it's been fine. But it was recalled the year after I installed and I refused to pull it back up for that recall. Goulds got in trouble for having too much lead in the impellers and thus the recall. Maybe now that's why so many are using plastic impellers?
 
I'm going to assume not all plastic impellers are the same. I just pulled up a Demming pump that's 15 years old and the plastic impellers are all broken. The water-line had some ice in it between the pump and tank and pressure spiked to near 100 PSI thus breaking the impellers.

I know my Gould pump (an older pump) has bronze impellers because it was recalled due to having too much lead in it (in contact with the water). I have now idea what the new Goulds use.
 
If you buy a franklin most of the pumps have franklin motors in them anyway. :!: :!: :!:
So iv been told :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :?
 
The simple solution to that would be to add a check valve at the pressure tank. The system at my last house required me to disable the check valve in the pump so it could drain down and recharge the pressure tank. That was in the StCloud area where there is Hydrogen gas present and this type of system vents it off.
 
Any pump I've worked on had a Franklin motor.
Franklin also markets their own pumps now. "Red
Lion" brand.

I've got little doubt that just about any pump
will work. I'm just trying to figure what the
difference is between a FloTec at Home Depot for
$350 and a Water-Ace or Shur-Dry at Surplus Sales
for $139? BIG difference in price.

http://www.surpluscenter.com/shop.axd/Search?
keywords=submersible+well+pump
 

a column of water 2.31 feet high exerts a pressure of 1 psi thus at a depth of 450' to the pump (in my MT well) the pressure was 450/2.31=195 psi. Seems about right, it could pump about 5 gallons per minute at that pressure.
At the top of the casing, and into a "gassing out 1000 gallon tank" the pressure was near zero.
We used seperate pumps and tanks to prepare it for domestic use. (as well as a reverse osmosis system to be able to drink it) Jim
 
I think it is that way with most everything. Hard to find much info on items. Price means nothing either !
Local parts stores wanted $600 plus for a Dorman driveshaft for a Honda CRV. Same Dorman on ebay around $350 with free shipping. Online also sells the ujoints for the original shaft for $65 and these can't be found locally at any price.
 
One thing to keep in mind is pumps having brass as the coupler to the Franklin motor will fail eventually if your water is highly acid.Acid water deteriates the brass an splines will fail before anything else.
 
Yes the tree huggers raising cane about the lead in everything. Brass has had some lead in it for years. Look up the actual facts on the amount absorbed into your fresh water supply. It is just another way for someone with a "Little" knowledge to make conclusions without any facts to back them up other than the right to sue someone.
 
I have a grunfus pump I installed in 1997. set at 120 ft Has built in low water cutoff my wife tests every summer.John I grew up in tredwell was good friends with Randy Merrill.He sure made those 2 cylinders sing.I met you at auction on percy holmes rd.I was with Pete who farms on cty rte 36 Greg
 
Your well digger in your area will know which ones are best for your area parts ect we dont know who has the best service in your area.
 
Yes, and I did that for over a year. Added a 1" in-line check-valve at the pressure tank. We didn't even know where the well was at the time. It was installed in 1959 with no pitless-adapter and no pit. I.e. a drilled well with iron 6" casing buried in the back yard somewhere. I located the guy that put that well in - over 30 years later and he couldn't find it - or remember where it was - either. I finally went out with my backhoe and started digging, trying to follow the line away from the house. Finally found it. Extended the iron 6" pipe by adding PVC with a coupler and then installed a pitless adapter. Then put in a new pump. Still have the old one. Worked well enough with the added check-valve - but not as good as when the check valve is down the bottom.
 
JD.
You didn't say if it was a 4" or 6" well, however,we have had exceptional luck with Sta-rite pumps.We use the jet pumps, but the submersible are also good. If you need help, their engineers are well versed and will give you their best knowledgeable information on their products.I was never interested in submersibles, when we found out they leaked oil and living in our house year round it was better for us to put the pump inside rather than pulling the pump outside in the winter,with it either stuck to the casing or spun itself loose inside the casing.Most that we've seen in a submersible,plastic rope was used to keep it from dropping down the well,instead of using stainless steel aircraft cable to secure the pump and keep it from dropping down the well.
The information we've supplied should be able to give you a good idea.

We have a sta-rite in the basement with the "plastic" impellers, been going since 1987. No problem with the pump,other than the line freezing,our fault after using the TD20 dozer to level the yard,and didn't have it buried deep enough the first time. It is now buried over 9 feet deep and triple wrapped with insulation, and 2" darafoam top and sides.

For me, I'd rather pull the jet package and lines,instead of the lines and submersible pump,but that is just my preference.
LOU

Here is the link to their 6" sub pumps.

http://www.sta-rite.com/ResidentialSearchResults.aspx#ProductType=6%22+Submersible
poke here
 
The well I'm working on now has a 6" ID. I have two others with a 4" ID and a 5" ID. All the submersibles I've seen are a hair under 4" OD and will fit all the casings I mentioned.

I don't want a jet pump. Inefficient and noisy. Especially in this case since the pressure tank is now mounted a few inches under the kitchen floor. I.e we sit right over it. A jet pump sitting that close would be pretty noisy.

I'm using a three-wire submersible. This way the motor start capacitor and relay are inside the house. Well is only 50 feet deep so pulling the pump by hand is easy. Just not fun when it's 10 below zero F outside.
 
(quoted from post at 13:16:55 01/19/14) Yes the tree huggers raising cane about the lead in everything. Brass has had some lead in it for years. Look up the actual facts on the amount absorbed into your fresh water supply. It is just another way for someone with a "Little" knowledge to make conclusions without any facts to back them up other than the right to sue someone.
Click to expand...

Brass fittings are NOW lead free.

Darned tree huggers banning lead in our brass!
 
I guess these Idiots don't drink from Crystal glasses as they are made using lead to get their clear glass and ring.
When I was real young gum came wrapped in lead foil. It's a wonder us old guys are still alive with all the things that had lead in them.
Walt
 
Bronze shouldn't have lead in it. From a longevity standpoint, I much rather have a lead free bronze. I suspect that the lead was a way to make a cheaper impeller, and possibly one easier to machine. It would be softer, and erode faster. Some bronze alloys are really tough, hard to machine.
 
Jde,
The links are for submersible pumps,and range in GPM.
For us the cast iron jet pump in the basement is quiet.The ones I can't stand are the lexon pumps,those things will drive me nuts.Sounds like a jet aircraft taking off,forever,as long as they run.lol

The saving grace of a submersible, is you don't need a large storage tank,or you can use it for on demand.The only problem with on demand is if there are multiple people using the water all the time, the pump rarely has time to rest.We seen a few that have burnt out a pump by this method.
The other problem I have with submersibles is if it blows a seal and leaks the oil into the well water.This was the old ones and nowadays it just stuck with me.

Either pump, submersibles or jet pumps are up to the users preference.To each their own.

Right now we have a 80 gallon tank in the basement and the pump rarely comes on,even then I have to be in the basement close to the pump to hear it run.We have a extra jet pump (Sta-rite) on hand and an extra 60 gallon tank just in case of trouble.For us it takes at least 2 weeks for the closest supplier to get one on hand.

As for Sta-rite pumps, I have never had any problem with them,and have handled them since I was working for SEARS in Indiana for 15 years. Never had one come back for failure.
Although today they're owned by a different company,but still the same good product,but it is up to the user who buys the product.

Regards,
LOU
 
My wife could of found it with two pieces of copper wire if there was water in the line, she is very gifted!
We had a buried well like that when I was growing up, a two line jet system with the pump in the basement. When it would start sucking air the pump would howl like everything! My dad knew exactly where it was and one time he had the hired man dig it up by hand, about 7 feet down. I have never seen a pit less adapter for a 2-line system, so the only other option would of been a well house.
 
My well is about 220 feet deep, motor is sitting in @20 feet of water. I had to have it pulled up once to replace a bad section of pipe. Date on the pump was 1970. I don't know what brand it is, but it's still working fine. 44 years old now.
 
My system requires 80/100 psi. My first Grundfos submersible lasted 25 years. It failed when my pressure switch died. They don"t make that model any longer. I"ve now got one of their stainless pumps, hope it lasts as long. They were manufactured in Denmark, now Mexico.

I expect you know to ask the manufacturer which model, rather than specifying hp, for your gpm and head. Originally, the nitwits at the local Drillers" Service sold me the wrong pump, twice. The factory folks were the ones who knew what they were talking about.
 
Most of the impellers are sand cast and not much machining needed. I used to work at a place that sold/rebuilt the pumps. I now work at a place that plates the steel impellers but they are the 6-8 inch impellers.
 
I have a Groundfos jet in basement. I'm lucky to get 7-10 years out of them. First pump the impeller spun off because the plastic part inside pump got sucked into the impeller. I bought an exact replacement JP-7. It lasted 7 years before the seal started leaking and there went the motor bearing. I'm waiting on a new seal, but the JP-7 pump seems to be a thing of the past. A friend gave me a third pump, JS-7. So basically I have 3 Groundfos jet pumps. If I can get a new seal and bearing, the next time I need to change it out, all I'll do is remove the clamp that holds the motor to the pump and just replace the motor end.

My well digger puts gould pumps inside well. They put out 5 times the water. I have 13 years on my oldest gould pump.
 
Grunfus Makes a 3" OSD Pump for use in a 4" well Not cheap, But you can get it back out of a 4" casing. Once The rust starts to build up in 4" casing The ISD can be 3 1/2" or less.
 
Lou the submersible pumps are for deeper wells. I have friends where the average well is just 30-40 feet. They can use the jets pumps fine.

Around here the average well is 200 feet deep. You have to have the submersible pump for that depth.

With a shallow well I would want the jet pump too as it is much easier to service.
 
That's right, my well is 180 ft a Gould submersible pump about 10 ft off the bottom of the well, a pump of any kind can push water further that it can pull water. I agree with you.
 
JD Seller, I hate to burst your bubble, but Jet pumps are good for pumping up to 320 feet. I posted a link below to the pump site. On the right top of the screen is a blue box, if you click on that it will show you the depth of the pumps capability. Just thought you would like to know so you won't make a fool tool of yourself. Also the links I posted for JDE was for submersible pumps.
Another link for jet pump specs with a 4" double pipe is on page 2 of 4, shows the capability.


http://www.sta-rite.com/resources/images/15067.pdf

It's just some don't know about the depth able to be pumped by these pumps, others prefer submersibles. To each their own.

LOU
poke here
 
I have sold and installed a lot of pumps and I long ago decided I would not again use a jet pump because when they fail you can never figure what is wrong with them and if the well is pumped below the static level the pump needs to be reprimed and that can be a bear.
Submersible pumps are simple and highly efficient as the only push water without any wasted effort at suction.
ALL OF THE PUMPS THAT ARE MENTIONED will do a good job. I installed a Demming pump in my well over 15 years ago to replace a Red jacket pump that had been there for 20 years. Both pumps were 2 wire and worked fine. My advice is to replace everything when you install a replacement pump. You may be tempted to reuse the old wire and pipe because of the cost but if something goes wrong you need to pull it all out again.
By the way if as mentioned the check valve does go bad it is not necessary to pull the pump since the check valve can be installed in the supply line near the pressure tank.
 
Jde,
Have you ever heard of E C Schleyer Pump CO in Anderson, IN?
When the price of pig brass became outrageous, the foundry owner, who I lived with for 6 years, Harold Gray, bought a bunch of used water valves, laid them on the ring of the oven,till there was no moisture left in the valve. Removed the handles and screws, pushed them off into the crucible. When it was all melted, threw in a bunch of broken glass and lead shot, rolled it off on a pipe, and skimmed the rest off of the impurities. Poured the brass into sand molds,machined the castings,no complaints of pinholes or dirt.E C Schleyer built a good pump, it was used for industrial application.
I would think they are still in business,but don't know for sure since I don't live there anymore. Brought back alot of memories.
LOU
poke here
 
Over the years, I've had piston pumps, Jet pumps, and submerisbles. I just got done installing a piston pump at a cabin I have in the Adirondacks. Not easy to find anymore and not cheap. Hooked to a drilled well that is Artesian and I've got a DC motor hooked to it. Run it off of solar panels.

At my main house with a 160 foot deep well - I used a Jet pump for years. Noisy but worked fine. Two pipe jet system so the Jet pump was in the house but the 2-pipe jet was at the bottom of the well.

Submersibles are more efficient and quieter. To each his own. The house I'm rehabbing now had a Jet pump under the house. It frozed constantly on the last owners. They had all kinds of heat tape wrapped around it along with lamps. When I got the place the pump and tank were both frozen and cracked. So I built an insulated "box" under the kitchen floor. 4" of foam on the walls and a small 900 watt "pump-house" electric heater in there. I also ran a forced-air heat duct into the "box.' I put the new horizontal pressure tank there - just under the kitchen floor. A Jet pump would of worked but the noise would of been very noticable. A submersible is in the well, quiet, cannot freeze, and uses less power then a Jet since it's more efficient. Also - pretty cheap if I opt for the $140 pump (12 GPM, 1/2 horse, 220 volt, three-wire).
 
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