Prawn Farmer
Member
Whats the opinion on getting the best traction in snow without 4wd? In this case chains aren't an option.
- Thread starter Prawn Farmer
- Start date
Weight, and deep knobby snow or mud tires. Softer rubber compounds are better and that's what snow tires are made of. Lower tire pressure helps as well. If you have ice, other than studs not much you can do will help. In Wisconsin studs are illegal to run on the road
Donovan from Wisconsin
Donovan from Wisconsin
Russ from MN
Well-known Member
- Location
- Bemidji MN
I drove 2-WDs in snow for years, always put as much weight in as far back (rear wheel drive) as possible. Radial tires with a Hydro tread design, or snow tires. Studded tires were great when they were legal, but they sure tore up the pavement!
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
Tires with the mountain and snowflake symbol. All season tires are sick joke.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
Depends on a lot of thing but always remember once the tires are spinning you have a thin layer of water between the tires and the snow/ice so no traction. Slow and steady is about the only way to go but even then gravity over comes any thing if the hill is to great. Having a bag of sand or cat liter can help a lot but only works for short term type help
Janicholson
Well-known Member
Ice and snow both have best traction when below Zero F. At 20F to freezing they both are near liquid at the tire interface (contact patch)
In packed snow soft compounds with lots of sipes are best (all season) in new snow not packed, real snow tires with open noisy pattern are best.
To get out of stuck, do not spin in deeper, use a grip agent first, and dig to clear a pathe when possible. (carry a plastic extendable shovel, $10.00.)
Modest speed carries momentum and thus progress. slow seems good but has no enertia and also makes it easy to spin the tires. Spinning reduces traction to near zero, thus no spinning is way better.
Cornering is a limitation on speed. assume a 40MPH corner is a 15mph corner on ice.
Plan stopping 5 times farther down the road than dry. Never skid the tires stopping (you won't)
If they skid at all let off and apply again.
Practice dirt track steering when the rear breaks loos.
With front drive you will go farther but spinning the tires leads to no steering at all.
I have never driven where there was no snow (even when in CA, We drove skiing.)
I started driving on ice a 8 on a 350U.
and my first car was when I was 13. (46 chevy delux)
I hope this is what you had in mind. Jim
Never use clumping cat litter, only the clay based (floor Dry) stuff. Regular play sand is better than litter.
In packed snow soft compounds with lots of sipes are best (all season) in new snow not packed, real snow tires with open noisy pattern are best.
To get out of stuck, do not spin in deeper, use a grip agent first, and dig to clear a pathe when possible. (carry a plastic extendable shovel, $10.00.)
Modest speed carries momentum and thus progress. slow seems good but has no enertia and also makes it easy to spin the tires. Spinning reduces traction to near zero, thus no spinning is way better.
Cornering is a limitation on speed. assume a 40MPH corner is a 15mph corner on ice.
Plan stopping 5 times farther down the road than dry. Never skid the tires stopping (you won't)
If they skid at all let off and apply again.
Practice dirt track steering when the rear breaks loos.
With front drive you will go farther but spinning the tires leads to no steering at all.
I have never driven where there was no snow (even when in CA, We drove skiing.)
I started driving on ice a 8 on a 350U.
and my first car was when I was 13. (46 chevy delux)
I hope this is what you had in mind. Jim
Never use clumping cat litter, only the clay based (floor Dry) stuff. Regular play sand is better than litter.
20 years in the tire business (in a former life) has taught me what most others have noted here. The thinnest snow tires you can get with the most agressive tread and studs. Not great in dry conditions but there's no free lunch. All weather tires are a joke. The wide tires most cars have these days just ride up on top of the snow. Thinner ones cut through. My wife has a 2WD Focus that has thinner than stock studded snows and she loves driving around people who think 4WD (with all weather tires...probably bald also) is the end-all.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
Plus added weight helps a lot. Still remember a ford van I got from a job I did removing the engine from it and setting it in something else. The van was a wreck any way. I found a boiler plate under it behind the rear end. It was around 300lbs or so
Brian G. NY
Well-known Member
Animal,
Boy, I didn't think anybody would remember those walnut shell recaps.
I had a set on my nearly new '62 Falcon and it could really get around.
A friend of mine had a '62 Corvair and could run circles around me, tho.
That proves that rear weight on a rear wheel drive vehicle is the way to go.
I had another friend with a pickup who used to put added weight right over the rear axle.
I don't know if I ever convinced him that if he put the weight right next to the tailgate he would transfer extra weight from the front of the vehicle.
Boy, I didn't think anybody would remember those walnut shell recaps.
I had a set on my nearly new '62 Falcon and it could really get around.
A friend of mine had a '62 Corvair and could run circles around me, tho.
That proves that rear weight on a rear wheel drive vehicle is the way to go.
I had another friend with a pickup who used to put added weight right over the rear axle.
I don't know if I ever convinced him that if he put the weight right next to the tailgate he would transfer extra weight from the front of the vehicle.
Eric in IL
Well-known Member
.
Farmboy856
Member
I agree about Firestone town and country tires--- best snow tires I ever had, and I wore out several sets of them, some with studs, some without. My dad put cheapie recap no-names on his car, and I could pass him by going in the ditch partways and pull him up the lane with my 75 Olds 98.
While we're on this topic, I was out in Colorado in the 1970s and heard OTR truck drivers arguing about the worth of "tractionized" tires in snow and ice. Can anybody tell me what that term means?
While we're on this topic, I was out in Colorado in the 1970s and heard OTR truck drivers arguing about the worth of "tractionized" tires in snow and ice. Can anybody tell me what that term means?
Some people go with 2 snow tires, especially on front wheel drive vehicles thinking only the driven wheels need them.
But you'll stop a lot sooner, and corner a lot better if you've got them on all four corners. (there's video proof of this on youtube if you don't believe me).
So whatever you get, get four of them.
As for weight - be careful of where you place it.
Too far back behind the rear axle and you're driving a pendulum that's going to want to kick out in a corner.
Keep the weight a little behind center front to back.
Then learn to drive slow and say to )(#* with the rest of the world behind you.
I've lost control on ice too many times - and every time it's happened, there's just ONE thought going through my head: "man, I wish I was going slower".
Now I drive like a little old lady - and I don't care if it bothers anybody.
But you'll stop a lot sooner, and corner a lot better if you've got them on all four corners. (there's video proof of this on youtube if you don't believe me).
So whatever you get, get four of them.
As for weight - be careful of where you place it.
Too far back behind the rear axle and you're driving a pendulum that's going to want to kick out in a corner.
Keep the weight a little behind center front to back.
Then learn to drive slow and say to )(#* with the rest of the world behind you.
I've lost control on ice too many times - and every time it's happened, there's just ONE thought going through my head: "man, I wish I was going slower".
Now I drive like a little old lady - and I don't care if it bothers anybody.
I have a Ford Escape truck.
Front wheel drive only. Good ground clearance is important. I get good traction in snow and the truck bogs down in the thick slushy stuff. I would like to put tire chains on my fronts but, it aint legal. Now in this last few days I have put a couple of salt bags on the floor of the passenger side for added weight.
Front wheel drive only. Good ground clearance is important. I get good traction in snow and the truck bogs down in the thick slushy stuff. I would like to put tire chains on my fronts but, it aint legal. Now in this last few days I have put a couple of salt bags on the floor of the passenger side for added weight.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Will agree with you on a thin tire. They are the best for going through snow or mud. They actually hold the road a lot better than the wider one's do also. Had a several sets of thin Michelin's and Firestone's, can't remember the size, on a Chevy full time 4x4 and they would go through about anything without locking it into 4 wheel. I could drive slowly through snow or mud while the big boy's with the big fancy tires could not make it even by getting a big run. The only drawback was that the sidewall stuck out more than the tread and I cut a couple sidewalls doing chores in the rutted lots. I'm not a fan of the newer wider tread tires.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Harold Hubbard
Member
You can still get the walnut retreads. They actually are a mixture of walnut shells and ground glass. I have a set on the front of my plow truck right now.
I don't know how long they will last, this is my second year with them, and they are still at better than half the original tread depth.
Google "treadwright tires"
I don't know how long they will last, this is my second year with them, and they are still at better than half the original tread depth.
Google "treadwright tires"
Phil in Pa
Member
Good question. I remember us running the Massey 165 one snowfall in the 70's, it was so deep the drive tires spun about twice of what the actual ground speed was to go everywhere. But go it did.
Good tread and weight I would think is the ticket with a farm tractor.
Good tread and weight I would think is the ticket with a farm tractor.
Bryan inIowa
Member
Goodyear Duratrac! best snow tire I have seen
Geo-TH,In
Well-known Member
If you are talking about rear wheel drive. In 2007 I got a new turck with automatic differential lock out. When one wheel spins, differential locks out and both wheels spin together. Works great.
I may not have the name of the rear end correct. It acts like positive traction. It was a cheap option too.
I may not have the name of the rear end correct. It acts like positive traction. It was a cheap option too.
Mark - IN.
Well-known Member
Flat land, aggressive tread like radials on the rears, plenty of rear ballast to offset the front weight, and frozen thick ground so you don't sink or break through. Maybe lower the pressure on the rears. Aint much left.
Good luck.
Mark
Good luck.
Mark
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Posi-traction is GM's name for a limited slip differential and is very common. The wheel with the most traction will turn. A locking differential acts like differential lock on a tractor where power to goes to both wheels equally. Not the same as posi-trac. Many people have confused posi-trac for a locking differential and claimed it was better than Fords limited slip. They are exactly the same thing. I don't know if new trucks come with a locking diff. option? They have traction control but that mostly limits engine RPM's so you don't spin the tires so fast. Steering is affected with a locking differential but a lot of guys with hot rods weld up the diff. gears to make it a full time locking diff. You get tire scuffing on tighter turns. There are some really fancy traction control systems on high end vehicles too.
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
Car, pickup truck, tractor or go-kart?
2WD pickup trucks are pretty helpless in the snow. First step is to get weight in the back. I don't know of too many folks who bother with snow tires any more, even though they're a great help.
Anyone who owns a 2WD truck without a locking differential should seriously consider having it converted if they plan on keeping the vehicle for long. The expense of adding a posi unit is a few hundred bucks, and if you happen to be going into the rear end anyway you should definitely do the conversion at that time. A locking diff is not only better in the snow, it will make the truck a much better tow vehicle. Just be careful getting on the gas in slippery conditions; a locking differential can spin you around in a heartbeat.
2WD pickup trucks are pretty helpless in the snow. First step is to get weight in the back. I don't know of too many folks who bother with snow tires any more, even though they're a great help.
Anyone who owns a 2WD truck without a locking differential should seriously consider having it converted if they plan on keeping the vehicle for long. The expense of adding a posi unit is a few hundred bucks, and if you happen to be going into the rear end anyway you should definitely do the conversion at that time. A locking diff is not only better in the snow, it will make the truck a much better tow vehicle. Just be careful getting on the gas in slippery conditions; a locking differential can spin you around in a heartbeat.
Can you use cables on your tires? I used studded tires until the state of MD outlawed them. The post office trucks use them in place of chains. We never had bus service when our daughter was in school and my wife always took her. This was in the 1960's and 70's. They didn't close the school back then. I installed a pair of snow tires with studs in the kitchen. We always had big Fords or Mercury cars back then. She said when cars ahead of her were just spinning on the ice she would pull around them. No problem getting around using those studded tires. I use chains on my garden tractor. Hal
NoNewParts
Member
weight over the drive wheels
skinny, aggressive tread snow tires with big spaces
between the tread for cleaning.
rearend is a trade-off, getting out of your driveway,
limited slip is handy, but tracking down the road at speed
is better with an open rearend in slippery conditions.
skinny, aggressive tread snow tires with big spaces
between the tread for cleaning.
rearend is a trade-off, getting out of your driveway,
limited slip is handy, but tracking down the road at speed
is better with an open rearend in slippery conditions.
If it's rear wheel drive, you've been given the proper formula- weigh the back, narrow Town and Country type tires (studded if possible) and learn to drive. Before my first 4wd I spent over 20 years driving 2 wheel drive PU's without Positrac and never had a problem. Went places a lot of 4wd guys wouldn't. You have to learn your limitations. Wide tires are the worst thing for traction I think has ever come down the road. I don't think they help gas mileage much either.
Geo-TH,In
Well-known Member
Stick
Not sure what it's called, but I will never be without it. When one wheel slips just a little, I hear a clunking sound, and the other wheel grabs and away I go.
I had a limited slip diff on a 62 jag xke. On snow you couldn't turn unless you turned wheel, then tapped the gas, so rear end would spin out a little. That was fun. Really I couldn't drive jag on snow with just 5 inch clearance.
The right tires on snow makes a big difference too. Along with getting the weight on the drive wheels.
My jubilee, I have to chain up to use a 7 ft back blade.
I made an 8 ft pusher blade for my terramite. Smaller tires tires on rear, no chains, the weight of the backhoe on rear, little snow under tires makes a big difference. Sometimes I'll put weight in the back bucket to transfer more weight to the rear for traction.
I like transfering weight better than ballast in tires. I like a front blade better than a rear blade too. Hard on the old neck turning around.
George
Not sure what it's called, but I will never be without it. When one wheel slips just a little, I hear a clunking sound, and the other wheel grabs and away I go.
I had a limited slip diff on a 62 jag xke. On snow you couldn't turn unless you turned wheel, then tapped the gas, so rear end would spin out a little. That was fun. Really I couldn't drive jag on snow with just 5 inch clearance.
The right tires on snow makes a big difference too. Along with getting the weight on the drive wheels.
My jubilee, I have to chain up to use a 7 ft back blade.
I made an 8 ft pusher blade for my terramite. Smaller tires tires on rear, no chains, the weight of the backhoe on rear, little snow under tires makes a big difference. Sometimes I'll put weight in the back bucket to transfer more weight to the rear for traction.
I like transfering weight better than ballast in tires. I like a front blade better than a rear blade too. Hard on the old neck turning around.
George
Prawn Farmer
Member
I need to replace a set of an almost new set of Firestone Transforce HT's that came on my used 2002 F250 I traded my F350 for last year. They are just one step above cheater-slicks for traction. Years ago, before 4wd got common, we ran with mud grips on the back all year long - either bias-ply or bias-belted back then.I don't care about noise or ride quality as truck is used almost entirely for farm and running errands. Tire dealer says with the newer radials all 4 tires need to match.
My wife's late Grandfather always claimed a narrow tire was better for traction than wider tires. Said that's how the old cars and trucks made it down all the dirt roads in the spring years ago.
My wife's late Grandfather always claimed a narrow tire was better for traction than wider tires. Said that's how the old cars and trucks made it down all the dirt roads in the spring years ago.
Tractiontzed Tires.I haven't heard that term in many a year.The tire was put on a machine with 2 rollers ,one was powered ,the other wasen't.The powered one had small very hard steel hooks on it.As it turned the hooks cut into the tread and left a jagged hole which did help traction.It could be used on either regular or snow tires.
Studed snow tires are wonderful on ice/hard packed snow.I'm amazed that they are outlawed in some states that are known to have tough winter conditions.Are chains allowed in some of these states?
When front wheel drive first came on the scene all the ad.copy raved of the great traction avaliable because of the front weight bias.With no more than 8 or 9" of ground clearance and often a
lot less and with 12 or 14" of wet snow you aren't moveing too far.
A narrow tire is far better than a wide one in any sloppy condition.But when it's deep and heavy chains can't be beat!
I knew a guy who bought expensive clothes for himself but wouldn't put good tires on his car. For winter he had ONE old used snowtire and a baldy on the other side. We laughed and laughed at him trying to literally "burn" his way up the hill on the way to his house. He could have just not bought that Armani dress shirt and had plenty to buy two brand new snow tires. I'm laughing right now just thinking about him. (;>))
Traction control is a mixed blessing. We have a Lincoln MKX with traction control and I read somewhere that traction control applies the brake to the slipping wheel (and probably also limits engine RPM). So if one wheel slips and the brake is applied, then the next wheel slips and the brake is applied, and so on . . . before long you have no wheels even trying to turn. If you turn off the traction control, and control the slipping with the gas pedal, the results are better. Another example of common sense vs. technology.
The tire dealer is telling you that for both reasons of liability and hoping to sell you 4 tires rather than two. It's your truck. If it were my truck and I was only using it for farm errands, I would put good snow tires (with the mountain/snowflake symbol) on the rear and drive it. Bridgestone Blizzaks would be a good choice. About $185 each. If there's any possibility of putting larger wheels on the rear, I would do that.
Consider getting a second pair of wheels with agressive snow tires to run in the winter months. Put the regular tires back on in the warmer months and store the snow tires away from sunlight. They will late many years that way.
Go with the narrowest tire that still a high enough a load rating for the weight you will have on that axle.
A limited slip rear axle and extra weight on the drive axle help too.
Go with the narrowest tire that still a high enough a load rating for the weight you will have on that axle.
A limited slip rear axle and extra weight on the drive axle help too.
tiresntracks
Member
I would have agreed with with you about traction tires on all four corners until a couple of weeks ago.
I had almost bald tires on my pickup, and the roads have been covered with packed snow and ice, so I put new traction tires on it. Now I can take off from a stop and go up hills better, but steering and stopping are much worse.
I had almost bald tires on my pickup, and the roads have been covered with packed snow and ice, so I put new traction tires on it. Now I can take off from a stop and go up hills better, but steering and stopping are much worse.
Take a good set of casings to a Bandag dealer and have them cap them with a Drive Trac Deep with an open shoulder. About as decent as you'll get for traction compared to the all terrain stuff you have. Then keep weight on the back... and make sure you do all four, not two. No good making it go if you can't point it anywhere and can't stop it...
Rod
Rod
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