OT---Geothermal Process

8Nr--WI · Jan 8, 2014

With all the recent discussions on heat and heat sources that have been posted recently since the country dropped into a deep freeze, I did some internet sleuthing and found this info on GEO Systems.....pretty interesting concept.

Tim
Poke Here

IaGary · Jan 8, 2014

Yup they have been installing those systems around here (SE Iowa) for over 15 years. Mine is 13 years old.

Read about costs below under the Electric baseboard post.

8Nr--WI · Jan 8, 2014

Hi Gary---I looked at your posts below, and saw you were willing to share costs, etc.

Otherwise, I wouldn't ask. What would you say your TOTAL energy costs per year are for your 2200 sq. foot home heated with the Geothermal are?

Thanks, Tim

IaGary · Jan 8, 2014

My electric bill for for winter averages $175 for 4 months. Summer averages $120 for four months.
The other 4 months where little or no heat or air is used runs $100 a month.

So 20 extra for 4 months and 75 extra for 4 months comes to 380 per year for heating and cooling.

Now my Eletric Coopertive that provides my electricity gives me a 30% discount for my heat electricity used in the winter. Heat only discount.

I have two meters on my house. One for heat one for the rest of the electricity.

Without the discount I could add $125 or so per year.

Gary

Wile E · Jan 8, 2014

What does one of those systems cost to install?
That is the real key, installation costs, then there is maintenance, (I know very little about the systems themselves)

IaGary · Jan 8, 2014

When this house was built in 2000 I got two bids. One for LP heat with central air.

The other for Geothermal with dug in water lines loops.

The geo was $5000 higher for installation.

Then the Electric Coop gave me a $1000 rebate as most electric companies are doing.

My daughter just got $3000 in rebates in 2013 for her new system. But the geo was $6000 more than lp and central air system.

They also get the 30% discount on heat electricity.

gary

Wile E · Jan 8, 2014

But, Wood heat is the cheapest, large wood stove with wood and more wood and more wood.
I have been told that if you have a geo-thermal system you still have to get a "booster" to bring the temp up to a managable level of 70F. Is this true?
Would a geo-thermal system be effective for a person living in say......Central Minnesota?

Ken Macfarlane · Jan 8, 2014

Cost is completely dependant on system size which depends on the house heat loss and the soils available to pull heat from.

The actual unit is cheap, its not much different than any a/c unit, its the dirt work to put in the grid of pipe to get heat out of the ground that costs.

If you have good wet soil or even better a spring you can have a small yard loop and get piles of heat. If you have dry soil with no snow cover you need a much bigger loop or drilled wells.

IaGary · Jan 8, 2014

Yup wood is cheaper if your time will allow to cut your own if you have a source.

-50 wind chill here on Monday night. The house stayed right on 72 degrees where the thermostat was set. Geo ran about 20 minutes of every hour.

At 0 it runs about 15 minutes per hour.

Central Minn. Yup. Manitoba Canada??????

I suppose if you put in more footage of water line at a deeper depth it may be okay.

I have 1600 foot of line buried in a pit 7 foot deep 20 foot wide and 75 foot long.

Gary

Ken Macfarlane · Jan 8, 2014

No, not unless the unit was undersized to begin with. They are more efficient with infloor heating or any other low temp heat emitter. If you are retrofitting a hot air house you lose a bit of efficiency because it needs hotter temps to heat the house. A brand new hot air house with geo will have a larger heat exchanger and a bit larger duct work so it doesn't have to run so hot.

IaGary · Jan 8, 2014

Mine is on a sand hill that is dry and works okay.

Wet clay would be better after it is settled good.

The 1600 foot of 1" plastic and the pit to put it in was $1600 in 2000.

Daughters 2000 feet of pipe and pit would have been $2500 this past summer. I dug the pit so saved her 1500.

Gary

Mike (WA) · Jan 8, 2014

Also, the average air temperature and cost of electricity are additional factors. In Pacific northwest, our winter temps are usually in the 40's, which is ideal for an air-type heat pump, and electricity is about 5 cents a kilowatt, so doesn't break you during the cold snaps when you have to use the heat strips. I don't know of any geothermal installations around here, because the minimal savings would not justify the additional cost.

Those are impressive numbers for the Midwest, Gary- it would sure pencil out for that area.

hd6gtom · Jan 8, 2014

son put this in this summer he even heats his water with it, turned the N G gas off to the house. said his electric bill is a tad higher but NO gas bill. We havn't discussed the cost. I will be replacing my LP gas system with 1 in the next 4 or 5 years. It pencils out even faster on Lp than natural gas.

Pair-a-dice farm · Jan 8, 2014

I had one at a house we sold a few years ago. It was a home made unit that was built by the guy that we bought the farm from. He was a heat and air man. Like Gary said, if they are installed right they are the most efficient heating and cooling systems. We never had an electric bill over $200 and in the months that we didn't run the unit it was about $100 so to heat or cool it was never over $100 and the old house wasn't very well insulated. Ours used 2 wells and pulled out of one and dumped in the other.
As far as maintenance, We lived there 9 years and only had to have it worked on once and all that was wrong was a $25 water valve.

8Nr--WI · Jan 8, 2014

Here is another link I just saw that says there is a 30% Tax Credit available thru 2016 on the total cost of the system, either in an existing home or new construction.....that's huge.....

Tim
Tax Credit......not meant to start political debate :

Pair-a-dice farm · Jan 8, 2014

There is a local company here that has been installing geothermal heat pumps for over 35 years.

MTC · Jan 8, 2014

Live in central Wi.Put a geothermal system in 9 years ago with a LP gas furnace as back up.Have spent 600.00 in Lp for the last 9 years.I have a back hoe and dug the trench for the lines myself.I put in lines and buried them myself.Brought the lines into the basement ready for the heat pump.Cost me 7000.00 for the installation of every thing.Let me see--was spending 2500.00 a year for LP times 9 years.You do the math.Has been my best investment ever.To be honest cannot understand why every one isn't doing it.

RamblinMan · Jan 8, 2014

You forget the cost of back hoe. Guess I should run out and buy a back hoe and save all that money.

RamblinMan · Jan 8, 2014

Best invest that three grand for the future repair bills.

MTC · Jan 8, 2014

Had the back hoe,like a lot of farmers do.I still think you could rent a small back hoe and be money ahead.

Anonymous-0 · Jan 8, 2014

How deep do the lines need to be buried?

Areo

farmerjohn · Jan 8, 2014

If you use trenches the pipes should be six feet deep.
As to the comments below about all the maintenance, my system was installed in 2003 and so far has cost me NOTHING except for filters.

MSD · Jan 8, 2014

Been running me $350 to have 3 one hundred foot lines dug 8 ft. deep for the lines. Not the expensive part for sure.

Leaky Boot · Jan 9, 2014

For a small 1200 ft home with an electric furnace forced air furnace, what would be the cost for all the needed inside unit to replace the furnace in the furnace closet? I can do a ground loop system very cheap as I have excavating and drilling equipment. If I went with wells which would be much neater in the yard how many and how deep? I have heard some here are in the 200 ft range which I can drill openhole as we have bedrock at about 10 to 15 ft so cheap and fast to drill. Static water level is about 120 ft if that makes a difference. Thanks, LB

Pops1532 · Jan 9, 2014

My sis and BIL installed a geo thermal system when they built their house in '87. Spent less than $400 on repairs in the 20+ years they owned the house.

W_B · Jan 10, 2014

(quoted from post at 03:55:09 01/09/14) If you use trenches the pipes should be six feet deep.
As to the comments below about all the maintenance, my system was installed in 2003 and so far has cost me NOTHING except for filters.

I had a geothermal system put in my log house in 1992. Only problem in the 10 yrs. we lived there was a circulation pump had to be replaced... under warranty. Electric cost were low, in A/C mode it was almost free (compared to conventional A/C unit or heat pump). Wish I had it in my current house. We have a heat pump for milder weather and an oil burning hot water system for backup and colder times (last paid $3.71 + sales tax at last delivery.... OUCH!).

OT---Geothermal Process

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