Ok, lets hear it one more time--running water doesn't fre...

Fountain in downtown Greensboro, NC. Picture from Fox 8's Facebook page.

My grandmother said that she....as a 15-year old....rode a mule-drawn wagon across the frozen Missasip between Golddust, TN and Luxora, AR in 1917.

In the blizzard of 78, I lived/farmed in Versailles, Ripley County, Indiana and tried to haul grain to Queen City Terminal in Cincinatti Ohio, but they were cloSed BECAUSE THE OHIO RIVER FROZE OVER. Now that takes a longgggggggg very coldddddddddddd spell.....

John T

Running water in a pipe doesn't freeze.
Thawed many water pipes out in the barn every morning and get them running they stay running until night . Next morning repeat again.
Later Bob

I was going to ask how far south the Mississippi would freeze. The web cam pics of St. Louis show the river freezing. starting this morning.

KEH

We're about 50 miles north of Memphis; 1917 is the only time I've heard of it freezing, but white peoples have only been 'here' for something less than 200 years.

I have a 1200 ft water line from a spring on the mountain to my hog lot and also use it to water my garden in the summer runs 24/7 lays on top of the ground.Its frozen right now and it freezes and thaws out all Winter at different times.

You might think it can't happen down south, but in the winter of 1983 the Red River at Shreveport (northwest Louisiana) froze solid all the way across. It was jagged, jumbled, like frozen whitecaps, but it went from bank to bank. We had a prolonged period of temps down in the teens that winter.

Trust me I didn't mean or want to start a debate. Despite that many people say running water in pipes doesn't freeze I still expect there are a lot of variables to making that an absolute fact. How fast the water is running which brings into play the size of the pipe and the volume of the water moving as well as how cold the temps are and how long it's been cold. There are so many articles on the web saying to let your faucet drip to prevent the pipes from freezing I couldn't find any scientific studies/experiments. It seems reasonable to me to expect that a faucet dripping wouldn't allow the water in the pipe to be moving fast enough to prevent at least some freezing. I'd expect the water would start freezing along the walls of the pipe and begin restricting the pipe. Of course as it does that the hole the water flows through would get smaller and smaller and thus the water move faster through it and perhaps it would never freeze completely shut which doesn't actually prove the water didn't' freeze just that it wasn't sufficient to bust the pipe--which is what preventing freezing in the pipes is all about anyway. Also on my mind is that as the water is being pumped from deep in the ground (well or a deep city water main) it's not freezing cold and it's passage through the pipe serves to warm the pipe thus lessening the start of icing too.

The fountain isn't really a good example of pipes freezing in a house as I expect a fairly large volume of water is running through a pretty small pipe to spurt out of the fountain--akin to a garden hose running wide open which is too much movement to freeze. What's frozen is the water running down the side of the fountain after it's spurted out the top.

Again, I don't doubt that letting a faucet drip/run will prevent pipes from bursting but unless the movement in the pipes is substantial I would expect to see some freezing inside if the weather is cold enough, long enough. And I personally wouldn't rule out complete freeze up if the water wasn't running at a good little trickle. I did find one article on the web that seems to agree with my theory though the New Orleans paper is hardly scientific.
"According to the University of Illinois, the alert threshold in the south for pipe freezing is 20 degrees Farenheit. At that temperature, even running water can freeze." See link.
Article on freezing pipes.

This may sound silly but, I suspect the freezing point of milk would be close to water??
When you are making home made ice cream, isn't the mixture moving during the process?
Might not freeze solid but it will sure get close.

Running tap water doesn't freeze when it is being drawn from a well or other underground supply because it is the temperature of the ground and relatively warm. As long as this warm water is running through the pipes they won't freeze. It is the heat in the water from it's source not the movement that prevents freezing.

If running water doesn't freeze, especially if it is running kinda fast.....then how come the Niagra Falls freezes????? A friend of mine did a bit of modelling, and ended up modelling swimwear at Niagra in the middle of winter and she told me it was frozen solid...She also said they could only stay out for about 2 minutes at a time....bet it was very 'nippy'!
Sam

That's pretty astounding for NC!

Small natural water falls freeze up like that around here.

.

Nice picture!

Well, technically that water was falling not running or walking. Lol neat picture!

Chris, there is a multitude of MisInformation readily available on the subject. Many towns ask you to run / waste water to keep town water mains from freezing when temps get this low. Opening the lowest tap and letting it run alone is stupid. I would close supply then open lowest hot and cold, then open all higher hot and cold taps to let whole system drain out before leaving house.
Later Bob

Is that a trick question kinda like how many ice breakers does it take to do a global warming expedition ?

I've seen big buildings burn down in the cold of winter like that, with three, four, five alarms called out and when the water hoses stop, looks a lot like that, as do the firemen. Cold and water can make for some artisic looking stuff under any condition.

Mark

When we are gone in the winter we leave a hose run from our artesian well to the lake, with the pump shut off. Runs about 3 gpm and the water comes out of the well at about 45F, has never frozen. -37F but it's under the snow for 75 feet.

(quoted from post at 20:33:50 01/07/14) Well, technically that water was falling not running or walking. Lol neat picture!

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Water flows, it has no legs and therefore cannot run.

T Just where are you. Around Covington , west of there out around the river?

When making ice cream we always put salt in the water, which lowers it's freezing point substantially.

Modeling swimwear in the winter, bet that gets a little "nippley"

Gene

Ripley

Opening the faucet so that water can drip doesn't is not meant to keep the pip from freezing. What it does help is when the pipe freezes pressure will build up in the pipe between the frozen spot and the faucet due to the ice expanding, possibly enough pressure to burst the pipe. Letting it drip leaves a place for this water to expand to and thus keeps the pipe from bursting.

Pooh Bear (aka Fluff For Brains)

(quoted from post at 22:26:06 01/07/14) Opening the faucet so that water can drip doesn't is not meant to keep the pip from freezing. What it does help is when the pipe freezes pressure will build up in the pipe between the frozen spot and the faucet due to the ice expanding, possibly enough pressure to burst the pipe. Letting it drip leaves a place for this water to expand to and thus keeps the pipe from bursting.

Pooh Bear (aka Fluff For Brains)

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have a 5000 gallon stock tank that is supplied by a 1 1/4" hose laying on the ground and aprox 5' uphill from an artesian well 300' to the tank.It runs a steady 3 gallon a minute into the tank.
It can get here as cold as -40-45 c , the water is running year round and has never frozen yet in the 20 years i been on this place.
The circulation in the tank keeps about a third of the surface open water in the coldest weather.

I have to agree with you. I always thought running water wouldn't freeze, but when i got home last night i had my pipes froze and a drain line. Had water running at two faucets when i left. It was -14 degrees when i left yesterday morning though.

As anyone in the north knows, it's not that running water, in a pipe or otherwise, won't freeze. It's that IF you have enough flow and IF the pipe or stream is protected enough from the wind and cold and IF the water never stops moving and IF it's not 33degree water to start with THEN it won't freeze. There's a whole lot of qualifiers that go with any statement on freezing temps and water.

The falls have only frozen solid once. Record keeping was poor during the times it was said to have frozen over, so it's possible it's never been frozen, or it may have been frozen once or twice(in the last 120 years)). The falls(American and Canadian) have never frozen completely solid in the last 50 years.

(quoted from post at 16:36:09 01/07/14) If running water doesn't freeze, especially if it is running kinda fast.....then how come the Niagra Falls freezes????? A friend of mine did a bit of modelling, and ended up modelling swimwear at Niagra in the middle of winter and she told me it was frozen solid...[b:7b2fd479a3][i:7b2fd479a3][u:7b2fd479a3]She also said they could only stay out for about 2 minutes at a time....bet it was very 'nippy'![/u:7b2fd479a3][/i:7b2fd479a3][/b:7b2fd479a3]
Sam

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Need pictures.

(quoted from post at 19:23:55 01/07/14) This may sound silly but, I suspect the freezing point of milk would be close to water??
When you are making home made ice cream, isn't the mixture moving during the process?
Might not freeze solid but it will sure get close.

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Try replacing the milk with plain water, and let us know what happens. LOL

Bingo. Jim

BTUs in vs BTUs out. If the in is less than the out whatever it is will freeze. Matters not what it is. There is a limit to everything, including water fountains.