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What are the odds?

Geo-TH,In

Geo-TH,In

Well-known Member
I have known 2 people who had a chimney fires on Christmas. One just happened yesterday and the other was about 20 years ago. Both people were burning wood. Both chimneys caught the house on fire doing extensive damage.

What are the odds of burning your house down when you burn wood inside your house?

How much more do insurance companies charge for wood burners?

George
 
Didn't burn my house down. I did have a chimmey fire though.

I was coming back to the house after chores, saw the fire out the top. I ran in the house shut off the draft and the fire went out.

That was the last day I burnt wood after 15 years of it. My family was more important than saving a few bucks with wood.

There will be guys tell me I did it all wrong. Didn't clean the chimmey, didn't burn it hot enough once a day, used green wood. I did all I could to do it right and it still caught fire.

Gary
 
my guess the fires on xmas are are a result of paper put in the fireplace, sends a lot of flame up the chimney toignite the creosote
 
It can happen to anyone, but keeping your chimney clean and burning dry wood will reduce the threat considerably. My house was built in 1938 and the only source of heat in MN winters was wood until the late 1990's. At that time a propane furnace was added so grandma wouldn't have to go down to the basement in the middle of the night to keep the house warm. When I bought the farm in 2004, I added an outdoor wood boiler, so now the fire and mess is always outside.
 
here is a hint: don"t tell the insurance company anything. Season your wood a full year. Keep your wood under cover. Clean your chimney 2x per year. Simple. No green wood sap, no goo, no chimney fire. Odds go way up when you break these rules.
 
Not to hijack your thread George.
But speaking of odds...
Last week I broke the left side tail light on my Chevy pu while unloading a back blade.
Got the part on Monday and installed it about 8 AM Tuesday morning then left for work.
On the way to work I got run off the road by a semi sliding on the ice so I hit the center median and fishtaled in the snow. Left corner of the pu clipped the guardrail and busted the new light.
Light was in there for maybe 40 minutes.
Arrrgh
What are the odds of that??
 
If they don't ask you may be fine. If they have asked if you burn wood you best be not burning it or they will not cover your loss.

I burnt wood in my shop for a few years only when I was in there. This was after my chimmey in the house. They could see the chimney on the shop and said the coverage on the shop would be $50 higher with burning wood. I quit.

Gary
 
Well George at 70+ I have helped my father in law put log chain down his chimney ever year and then go to the bottom and clean out the crud. I built a new home 5 years ago and reluctantly put a wood heater in the basement for stand by heat. Used triple wall stainless steel 8 in pipe for chimney, thing goes up about 8 ft then has an 3 ft offset. Really has worried me and we have only used the stove on a few real cold occasions. Got to figure some way to clean the chimney . I do try to use dry good wood but still have some concern after remembering how bad my father-in-laws would get.
 
I had the same thing, and did the same thing. Chimney had been cleaned less than a month, used seasoned wood, all that.
 
My folks burned wood in their house for over 50 years. Only time we ever had any trouble was when they lowered the ceiling, and not the stove pipe. They always burned quite a bit of paper through it, so maybe they kept the creosote burned out. I don't think they ever had the chimney cleaned.
 
I had a bad chimney fire about 20 years ago. It was one of our coldest nights that year and had a 35 MPH wind. Did not harm the house at all. The creosote in that chimney burned for a couple days before it went out completely.

All my wood is now burned outside, keeps me comfortable and my insurance man happy.

Not something I want to experience ever again.
 
I also burn wood,use double wall stainless for a chimney and have an airtight stove in living room(it heats the whole house). I worried more when I first put it in and cleaned it religiously. There has been a learning curve; I had 1 chimney fire while I was starting a fire and I have learned what wood makes creosote. I now hardly have any creosote compared to what I used to have. I mostly only use dead wood and season for 1 yr after cutting and splitting. I don't leave the stove door open very long and keep the damper closed almost all the way. I used to see creosote icicles on the chimney cap, but no more.
I replaced the chimney sections when I had my fire . Also I went into the attic to immediately check on the outer part of the chimney after the fire and could put my hand on it, so that eased my mind a little about heat transfer. But the fire scared me too=gave me a lot of respect for fire, and I made sure to take better care of wood and chimney. Also I replaced the stove with an identical one when the original wore out (became less air tight). My fire does smolder, which creates creosote, but I think the wood is the key. I also told my insurance agent when I first installed it, but my rates did not change as far as I know. You just have to be careful. Mark
 
Neighbor always threw his wood stove ashes out behind his garage in a pile.A couple years ago they somehow set the garage on fire.He lost 5
restored classic cars and 3 or 4 tractors.
 
George,
We have burnt wood for over 40 years,( wood delivered yearly,cut and split by us). Our secret is KEEP THE CHIMNEY CLEAN. We use a wire brush and a old circular saw blade for cleaning the chimney. Ours is considered a Class A chimney. Clay lined /cement flue block. We have a wood furnace with blower in the basement and a Lennox Oil furnace with priority ( top opening in the flue). No problem with insurance. Also use Creosote destroyer powder in the furnace at least twice a day. The destroyer turns the creosote to a grey powder,that doesn't stick to the liners,easy to brush off. Vacuum out of the clean out door in the chimney very easy. Hope this helps. Our creosote destroyer comes from Menards,(powder,not liquid) Birch wood with bark and pine is the most notorious for creating creosote,so we burn mostly oak, elm, maple and some ash..
LOU

PS, In case you have a chimney fire, use a piece of plywood or a metal bucket lid over top the chimney outlet, if you shut down the air source, it can't burn.
 
I only burn dry hardwood never had a problem.I also burn the stove hard at least once a day and don't close the draft very tight a 'cold' fire and wet wood will cresote a chiminey up quick.Insurance Co charges me $25/year extra for the wood stove and nothing extra for the fireplace in my living room which is odd because a fire in a fieplace is much more of a hazard.
 
I heated with wood for over 20 years, cleaned the chimney about once a month. Got out of synch one time and chimney caught fire. I didn't know anything was wrong because it was just smoldering at the bottom, until my son came in about midnight. When he opened the front door and the heater got a breath of fresh air, it took off! Called Volunteer fire dept. to put it out. Cracked the chimney, so next day I went to a tin shop and had them make up enough stove pipe from stainless and used that for a chimney liner. Worked very well and was easier to clean because creosote didn't stick as tight to the stainless.
 
Our neighbor had what looked like a chimney fire last night, just burning paper in the fireplace! Passer-by called the fire department, they came and checked it out. Good to know some drivers are observant and not on their phone or texting.
We burn a lot of wood, in a Jotul, dry wood is the secret, cleaned the chimney recently, only got about a quart of soot!
 

I have never had a chimney fire but then I have burned very little wood. I have been to many chimney fires as a firefighter for thirty-five years though. What we always told the people is that they need to have a "friendly" chimney fire every day. If you do like Traditional Farmer said and burn it hard for a few minutes everyday, first thing in the AM is best, The fire will carry up into the chimney and ignite whatever little bit of creosote you may have formed on the previous day. The friendly fire will clean it out good, and it won't burn hot enough or long enough to cause any problem, and you will have cleaned it every day. Many, many times people told us that they had had it cleaned just a few weeks ago. What most people don't know, however, is that under just the right conditions enough creosote can build up in just 36 hours to have a chimney fire that is hot enough to cause structural damage. So just burn it right after a good cleaning and rest easy.
 
I have been to alot of chimney fires as a 35 year FireFighter. I will not burn wood and none of my fellow FireFighters burn wood.
What I have seen happen is the creosote will come loose from the liner and fall down to where the stove pipe enters the chimney and block the gases and heat from going up the chimney.

Fireplace inserts are the worst, I can't count how many times we have carried them out of someones home.

The best flue is a round one. With the square or rectangle flues the corners stay colder and attract the creosote.
 
Proper mortar chimney, burn a hot fire every day none of this automatic all day smolder low heat fire. Have a good draw in your chimney.

Let the house get kinda cool, heat it up a little warm. That hot fire will clean out the chimney before the creosote builds up. Don't do a hot fire after weeks of low fires.... That is gonna cause you problems!

More to it than that, but the real basics of keeping a chimney good.

Paul
 
When we built our new log house 25 years ago, I built my own stove. Insurance man took pictures of the stove & chimney set-up & I have had insurance ever since. It is not UL approved.
 
my chimney is inside of house stays warm less creoste that way. also told by older guy to burn your junk wood on warm days and save the good wood for cold days. i can get a hot fire going with basswood and not get the house over hot and a good way to clean out fence rows.
 
My wife once was in an accident that totaled the Pontiac minivan she was driving.

A brand new steering rack and tie rod ends had 234 miles. $600 worth.

The insurance company did work with me on it. I didn't quite get it all back, but after we agreed on a price on the van, the insurance company added $400.
 
Not necessarily. Insurance companies work the odds.

In general, fireplaces are virtually always professionally installed, the fire burns hotter, people are more aware of what the fire is doing, and there is little chance of other combustibles getting near the fire.

Whereas, on the other hand, wood stoves are more flexible in how and where they're installed, other combustibles can pile up around them, and it's too easy to ignore what they're doing 'cause they might be out of sight.
 
There is magnetic thermometer that attaches to the stovepipe about 16" above the fire.It shows the pipe temperature and has the safe,too cold and too hot ranges marked on it.No chimney fires since we got that because the women keep the fire hotter than before.
 
Lou,
There is no chance I'll ever have a chimney fire. My 3 bedroom, 2000+ sq ft home in Indiana is total electric, very well insulated, anderson casement windows, brick. Last month's bill was $220. I didn't clean any chimneys, cut, haul, split, stack, have a smokey smelly house, dust, ash, spend thousands on outside boiler, chainsaws and I don't worry about a chimney fire. Guess you can say I'm lazy. Do the math, last month was a cold month. I wouldn't care if my electric bill was $440 a month, I would just add more insulation.
George
 
Only time I had a chimney fire noone needed to tell me. The roar was loud enough to be heard throughout the house. No damage to the house but the triple wall flue was ruined. I had a few cresote fires in my barbque pit while learning to cook on it.
 
in my 50 years of fire fighting very few of the chimneys set the house on fire. It all depends on your chimney construction---flue pipe inside of masonry block is by far the most safe. The higher the chimney the hotter it will burn.Many codes specify refractory mortar in the tile joints
if it does catch fire and seems to be getting out of control cut off the air supply at the bottom and shooting in a dry chem extinguisher at the bottom will quell it---NEVER use water
 
You have my attention. I have been burning wood for around 35 years. I have metal bestos brand chimney stove pipe it has stainless steel on the inside, a layer of non combustable material in the center with stainless steel on the outside. I have a 6 in brush I run down the 6 in. pipe every couple years, but don't get much off the walls. So what do you do if a fire startes? Will it just burn out the crud then go out if you have good round pipe? Stan
 
My primary source of heat is a Tarm wood boiler. The gasifcation process ignites the gasses that create creosote. It's pretty amazing, I get extra heat from the secondary combustion and don't have to worry about chimney fires, double bonus!

I do have an old parlor stove and cook stove. The parlor stove gets used on cold evenings to add a little extra heat, I usually try not to damp it back at all. Small hot fires vs loading 'er up. The house is pretty well insulated too so I have to do this anyway or risk over heating everyone!

K
 
every week I tossx a steel or aluminum ca in my fire to dissolve . seems like that keeps chimney fires away . I have had 3 that I recall over the yrs , the worst one had flames 2 ft above chimney !!!.... its a good idea to always keep a carton of salt ready to go in the fire ,, in case of chimney fire ,, maybe a wives tale ,,don't know what it does or if it worx ,,except when I did pour salt on the fireeverything came under control ,,, NEVER POUR WATER ON A CHIMNEY FIRE , someone already mentioned that , fire ext iguisher is best ,,. I use and LOVE my fireplace,, this house was built in 1930, when I came here in 1984 , we built a new chimney from the footer up , fireplace in the living room , wood furnace in the basement,i have not used the furnace in the basement yet ,,the chimney is entirely inside the house,i ca see the brix in each room ,,. until it comes out the roof ,, some cold days it gets a little warm ,, the square 8x8 tiles are side to side with alternate heights on the joints ,.. however after 29 yrs cracked at the top and I wonder about the condition throughout.. In 1984 we ,extensively remodefed , put a upstairs master bedroom suite (workshop) complete with a porch balcony ,..
 
(quoted from post at 20:00:24 12/26/13) You have my attention. I have been burning wood for around 35 years. I have metal bestos brand chimney stove pipe it has stainless steel on the inside, a layer of non combustable material in the center with stainless steel on the outside. I have a 6 in brush I run down the 6 in. pipe every couple years, but don't get much off the walls. So what do you do if a fire startes? Will it just burn out the crud then go out if you have good round pipe? Stan
Click to expand...

It depends on how much creosote has built up. If you burn it out everyday pretty much nothing happens. If it gets to say an inch thick, the highly combustible creosote starts to burn. as it burns it expands to three time it's original thickness, and mostly blocks the flue. The air rushing through is what gives it the freight train sound that everyone describes. The strong draft makes it hotter which can cause the metal to buckle or mortar to crumble and tiles to crack. Then the fire can get out into the surrounding structure. Not usually but it happens. I watched the creosote expand and burn through a mirror once as the fire chief and I burned out the chimney of a shed for an old timer in town.
 
Clean chimney annually by a professional.

Have DRY CHEM extinguishers.

Have a good fan.

If you have a powerful fan like a gigantic shop fan seal your house up when the chimney is on fire. Open the closest door to the outside and run the fan outside of the house pointing at the doorway. Run the fan so there is a cone of pressure surrounding the entire door. This creates positive pressure in the house, remember to seal everything but t he chimney. Shoot the dry chem up the chimney, the positive pressure inside the house will push the agent up the chute.

That's the best way to put a chimney fire out.
 
I burn my wood boiler in the basement 24/7 from November to April, I clean the chimney 2x a year and I never had a fire, I fire hot every morning and burn well seasoned hardwood. My chimney is also a warm chimney, meaning its in the center of the house., not on an outside wall. There a skill involved in burning wood, you have to know your stove, chimney, wood ect. It's not for everybody.
 
Been burning wood for over 40 years, NEVER had a stack fire. I burn Pine, Juniper, Sage, Creosote woods - (all soft wood), and Mesquite - (hard wood) - these are all that's available in the Desert. Two feet above the stove I have a "Stack Robber" to pull wasted heat from the stack. From the Stack Robber on up, I use Triple-Wall Insulated Stove Pipe, going through "Cold Collars" in the ceiling and roof. On the top of the stack there is an adapter and a globe shaped spinning roof ventilator - (creates Negative Pressure in the stack). Also, about once a week, I sprinkle about a Tablespoon full of Table Salt on the fire; the vaporized Salt dissolves any Creosote that may have formed in the stack and allows it to run back into the stove where it's burned up.
 
My mom works with a guy that had two uncles tip there combines over on the same day, one of them had to be med flighted, both survived okay.
 
We've been burning wood since the first oil embargo in the early 70's. We've burnt wood here pretty much exclusively since 98. Oil would run me at least $6-800.00 a month, maybe a lot more. Electric is already over $300.00 a month with no electric heat used. We've already added the insulation we could, story and 1/2 home built in 1880's, added good windows, etc. It's not economically possible for us to use oil, electric or propane. Not and still pay the mortgage, taxes, etc. and eat. I sometimes put 20 gals of diesel int he tank and run the oil, 20 gals lasts about 2 days this time of year if it's not real cold.

We have a wood furnace in the basement. We have insulated stainless chimney pipe. I clean it once or twice a month in the winter. As it is I've had 3 fires I know of. I love insulated chimney pipe, even if it is close to $100.00 a section now. One fire I had I put my hand on the outside of the pipe. It was hot, but not burning hot. Love that stuff. I want an outside wood boiler. It's the most common sense answer to our situation, it's just very expensive.

If I lived in a little, modern house in town wood might not make any sense. Out here, with more wood than I can possibly burn standing dead, anything else makes little sense.
 
Experienced wood burners rarely have fires and properly installed Selkirk type chimney is fine in a chimney fire.

That said the first year in our place we burned green slab wood because that's all we had and we had 20 ft of single wall pipe before the insulated stuff. We had at least 3 fires even with regular cleaning. Once we got proper wood and the proper flue installed no more fires and the chimney is clean as a whistle every time I go to brush it out
 
Wood stove was only house heat for 4 years back in late '70's until I added on and it wasn't practical. Still use it as primary heat in the main part of the house.

Triple wall vertical chimney with 3' extension above roof line, stove spaced from the wall 12", brick veneer behind, under, and in front of stove. Stove is sitting on a platform 10" above floor. Only burn seasoned oak and in years like this one pecan and hackberry. Nothing that throws sparks. If door is removed for fireplace effect, the cover is in place. Vinyl flooring in area of stove and no furniture within 6'. Have a chimney brush and brush out the creosote, what little there is, every fall when it is dry, scaley, and easily removed.

At Christmas, very thorough in cleaning up wrapping paper when it occurs and bagging it. Don't smoke.

HTH,
Mark
 
Previous owners of our place had a stove in the fireplace when we bought it. We took it out and had the chimney inspected and cleaned. Found out there had been a chimney fire at some point that damaged the liner. Almost $3,000 later we had a new stainless steel liner, chimney repointed and top damper (they cut out the original damper to put the stove in).
 

Well, George, your post started a fine discussion which resulted in me reaffirming my conviction that IF I ever burn wood again it will be in an 'outdoor furnace' of some type. Thanks.
 
mj,
I was reading about the pollution from the outside furnaces. EPA says they eat a lot of wood, produce all kinds of nasty stuff, have tried to control the stuff from chimney. I was reading where even the inside stoves can be a health hazzard to some.

Guess I did start a fire storm. Just trying to point out the odds, Not to mention 2 people having a real bad Christmas. Not to mention can't live in their house.

George
 
(quoted from post at 15:40:40 12/27/13) mj,
I was reading about the pollution from the outside furnaces. EPA says they eat a lot of wood, produce all kinds of nasty stuff, have tried to control the stuff from chimney. I was reading where even the inside stoves can be a health hazzard to some.

Guess I did start a fire storm. Just trying to point out the odds, Not to mention 2 people having a real bad Christmas. Not to mention can't live in their house.

George
Click to expand...

With due respect George, EPA says a lot of stuff that's bull feathers! We went through the same thing here in NY- morons in villages and small cities or congested areas burning trash, diapers, tires, soaking green wood, etc in their OWBs. Instead of NYS DEC going after the boneheads, they came up with a blanket approach type answer that in many cases effectively outlaws OWBs, not to mention makes them twice as expensive.

Find out what comes out any furnace stack and you'll find "nasty stuff". Find out everything involved in producing electricity, especially solar, and there's a huge amount of "nasty stuff" in the production. Thing is, it's all produced in China or India!

A properly operated and installed wood burning device is pretty tame in the big picture.
 
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