Need Advice...

Hi all, got to talking with a friend up the road about tractor restoration today. Here is the situation: He is 38 and lives with his parents on their farm. They have this NAA Ford sitting in a shed, and it hasn't run for years. He said that he and his parents want to HIRE me to restore it. He says that they might trade me a few dump trucks of gravel, and an old Ford 501 sickle mower or "we'll just figure that out later" in order for me to do the job. Their shop is so disorganized and screwed up, with no heat, that I have to bring the tractor to my house (4 mi away ) and put it in my DAD's shop in order to fix it up. He wants a full restoration, and he is going to take the engine out and have it rebuilt by a professional in town. I have all of the means to do everything else my self. My biggest concern is pay, and this is what I need the help on deciding. I don't want to trade for anything, period, but am unsure what a reasonable asking price is per hour. I don't buy the parts or anything, I am just to tell him what I want, and he is going to buy it for me. I work all year round for them for $12 an hour, and for me being 15, that is pretty good, but does that sound about right for restoring a tractor in my own shop and my own time??? To add to the frustration, he says that "it must be done before green grass." ??? Let me know what you think, I have a feeling that this is going to be quite a lively topic! Bryce

You're right, it will probably be a lively discussion.
Mostly based around how you define "restored".
Even if you can work all day every day, it likely won't
be "restored" by green grass.
It would take longer than that to find all the correct parts.

Anyway, how much are they (you) going to pay your dad
for the use of his shop and the cost of heating it?
I would definitely add that into the price. It's only fair.

If it's frustrating to you, just pass.
There's nothing says you have to take this on.
Just be diplomatic about it since you say you work for them.
Most people understand when your plate is simply too full
for another project.
Good luck!

RUN FOREST RUN!!!!!

First off your going to get in way too deep on this. The cost to fully restore a tractor like that Ford NAA is going to cost them more than they think it will. Just the parts alone will make it an expensive project. Then if you add in labor at any type of reasonable rate then your going to be up where they could buy a much new tractor for the same or less money.

They are not in the ball park on the cost. A few truck loads of gravel is only going to be maybe $400-500 dollars. Then the Ford sickle bar mower is only a $200-400 item depending on condition. So they are thinking $800-900 labor for the restoring job. It could easily be 3 to 4 times that amount.

You need to have a serious talk with them on what they think it will cost to do this restore job. They need to be thinking in the $2500-3000 without any major engine issues.

I have seen $5000-6000 stuck in one with the engine,lift and transmission needing work. That is without much labor included.

You beat be to it! Run like the wind!

Respectfully decline to rebuild it and offer to help them find one already rebuilt for less money.

There is a post from a few days ago about a tractor restoration gone bad with a non paying owner with all of the work done already.

At 15 you don't need the headache.

I have been in your shoes before. No good answer from my point of view. You will have way more into it than it its worth. I think you will have a tough time getting it done that quick. I have done restorations and prices varied from 20 an hour down to 5 or 6. The low end one was a lot more work than I anticipated and it was going on a ball park price.

The 20 an hour job came out around 6000, but that included 90% of the parts for a Deere b. However, I only showed the owner how to do it. He actually did a lot of the grunt work himself.

Guess I am saying watch how you do it and be prepared to eat time spent doing things over and over to get them right. I would say I can do it for X dollars, or X dollars per hour. Be up front about the costs- parts by owner, shop supplies by you, paint by ??? I would go with progress payments as you don't want him to get half way through and decide it is to expensive and think your total to date is to high. Be prepared to make less than 12 an hour. Good luck. Great learning experience and the next one will be easier.

first you better get them to put down what they figure restored means, a full resteration if you do all the work means the tractor is in as new condition down to the last bolt, mechanicly as well as cosmeticly,if you do everything yourself today you may wind up with around 7 to 10 grand in it and could take years to do, 2 dumptruck loads of gravel hardly equals that, now if by restored, they mean refurbished instead ,2 loads is still way light but your not into it as bad, when i refurbish a tractor and ive done several, it means that when done it runs and operates as it should and i put on a 20/20 paint job, [looks good from 20 feet away or passing by it at 20mph] the cost of that depends on what that tractor needs to start with ,that can be anything from a full tune up, and its fuel system repaired/ cleaned, to get it running, to needing some or all of its major componets overhauled, you first need to evaluate what the tractor needs before you agree to anything , and find out as much info as you can about when it ran last, and what condition it was in then, as far as what worked, and what didnt, your playing with trouble here, and you need to handel this carefully, or you'll wind up loosing your tail on the deal

If you want to keep him as a friend tell him no thanks.

If you were working in their heated shop, using their electricity, using their tools and the overall condition of the tractor isn't too bad 12 an hour would still be cheaper than what I would charge. But if there is rotten metal or the tin is all bent up it's going to take a lot of time and money to fix. Location? If you are up north and green grass isn't for another 3 months and you can spend the time without affecting school and grades you just might get it done. Time? Just how much time to do have to work on it? 2-3-4 hours a day? Just how many days are you going to get nothing done because they haven't purchased the parts yet? If you decide to do it get someone who knows that tractor and mechanics to go over there with you first and do a detailed tech inspection on it. Make a list of everything it needs. Then tell the owners OK, I'll do it but I will not start until all the listed parts are on hand. And them agreeing to order, that day anything else that may be found when you are taking it apart.

I have to agree, don't walk, run away. I don't like the "swap work for stuff". They will most likely want you to work for what they pay you now and then what about compensation for your dad heat, electricity and shop space? Then too you will have to be able to give them some type of warranty on any repairs you do. You don't want them coming back 5 years from now demanding that you fix something. X number of hours or 90 days for labor only. That's why you make them buy the parts. If a part they buy fails you can charge them to repair it again. If you buy the part and it's covered under warranty you have to fight the part company for labor.

Nope this is one you need to stay away from. Tell them time and your age plus lack of expertise as a mechanic means they need to find someone else.

Rick

Bryce,
I think just like danmcdonald said, Tell your neighbor "No Thanks".

My experience is when some one wants to trade something for work performed is a sign they don't have the money or want the work done for nothing. Then when some one pressures you for an answer or a job done by a certain time, they're trying to take advantage of you. Like Dear Abby would say, tell them "No Thanks" would be the most polite thing to do. It's non personal and puts you in control of the situation.

Bryce, at 15 you don't need to be bogged down in some one else's swamp. And it will become a sticky mess if you are not very careful. I commend you for asking advice before making a decision. It sounds to me like someone is just trying to take advantage of you. I ran into a similar situation some years ago. I was between jobs and signed up for a short course on starting your own business at the local community college. A woman in the class knew that I was unemployed and asked if I would be interested in painting her store building. I considered it, but the more we discussed it, the more concerned I became. I finally just turned the job down, and am glad that I did as she was a very demanding person.
I know that you have several awaiting projects of your own, and although I am sure you could use any extra income from this "project", consider the possibility that there may not be any "extra income" due to a customer who may claim that he is not happy with the results. You may not have encountered this yet, but I can say with confidence that most of those who reply here will tell you that those who you think you know well, or are your "friends" will often be the very ones who give you the shaft. I would respectfully tell them that you have more than you can handle at present, and continue with my personal projects and accumulate a little more experience and expertise along the way. JMHO, and good luck to you.

It is a great way to become framiliar with ripped off. Today it could seem that the good will and current employment would be a solid foundation, it is not. A timeline set before a project begins with no agreed upon pay is just wrong. Jim

"....got to talking with a friend up the road...."
If you value your friendship with the family, find an excuse to have somebody else do this. Or, perhaps you could wait till the weather is better and have him buy all the parts and pay for any machine work and then help him whenever you can.

I'll keep my reply short and sweet and say only thing. Read the replies this far and head their advice. Having worked for myself for a lot of years I can tell you for a fact, 'friends' and the ones that 'you don't have to worry about' will be the first ones to cheat you when it comes to getting paid for a job.........enough said......

Like everyone else has said here; if you want to remain friends don't do it. When I was your age I wanted to believe that everyone was as honest as I was. A life of experience has taught me that those type of things never turn out satisfactory. It's even worse with family sometimes. It seems like strangers won't try to take advantage of you because they don't know if you might be "crazy" but people who know you seem to feel that if you're a nice person you'll be nice enough to do it for free or something.

Run dont walk full restoration would run 5000 or more. You want half to start and paper to get full pay upon finished. Tell him to price other places. Body shop will want 2000 just for paint job or more new tires cleaning rims ect another 1000 then new seals wiring and the list goes on.

As everyone else said, don't do it!

It's not possible to make money restoring old tractors, if you do the job right. So if you charged them an honest rate for your labor, with parts they'll have way more in the tractor than it's worth. Even if you work for free (which is their plan), they're going to lose interest in the project when the price tag goes over a couple grand. Leaving you with a disassembled tractor in your dad's shop. So you'll be PO'd for putting in hundreds of hours for free, they'll be PO'd because they've sunk a lot of money into the project with no prospect it will ever get done, and most importantly your dad will be upset at the lot of you because this interminable project is taking up space in HIS shop.

Politely decline their offer.

I wouldn't do it. Most people don't fully understand the meaning of a full restoration. It is very time consuming and worth a lot more than they are willing to give from what you say. If you still want to do it, I would nail them down to exactly what they want done on every step and write it down on paper, then talk about price. I would also not assume everything works since it doesn't run. If you feel like it's not worth it, but you still want to work for them, tell them you don't want to dig into something you don't understand fully. Gerard

For all of the reasons mentioned already and maybe a few more I'd recommend you decline to do the project.

That's a big job to do at 15. I restored a Jubilee. Tell the owner, it will cost about twice what the tractor is really worth, no joke, and that may be in just parts alone. Good chance the hydraulics will need rebuilt, all new wiring, new gas tank, the list goes on. I removed all the metal, cleaned, sanded, welded on metal, painted, hundreds of hours. You need lots of tools too.

A few dump turcks of gravel isn't much. If you want to remain friends, walk away.
Lots of Luck.
George

Tell them you are having a hard time at school and need to spend your time studying to keep from failing, or something like that. Any 1/2 or 1/4 truth will do to keep you away from a complete rip-off deal like that.

There is a business in wilkinson that does rebuilds on your tractor. Their price for rebuild is $9270. base price "subjecy to change".I would just give them the info. My last pattial rebuild on my jubilee took all winter and 1300-1400 just for engine. You will lose a lot of time ordering/waiting on parts.
You might check if engine is locked up or free. If not locked up, maybe agree to "try" to get it running. That way the tractor could be accessed as to the repairs needed.
I wish you luck. Joe email open

Bryce

Short answer. NO!

Long answer. NO!

Everyone else has given you the reasons.

Rick

Well, it got parked after somebody drove by the farm and saw this tractor left out in the field, and they then decided to fill the gas tank with sugar... They SAID they realized what had happened and limped it into this barn to be fixed, and it has sat there for 10-12 years... Carb, and fuel tank are seriously PAPER thin!! Getting parts isn't a problem, and they don't want a full blown restoration, I have higher standards as to what I will allow to roll out of my shop than they do, so I don't think that quality will be a problem, they basically want it cleaned up and running well before haying season, because they are tired of raking hay with their Ford 5000, and this year, I raked it all for them with my to-30, so they want theirs back running. The tractor is in really good shape, and I told him after looking at it for 30 min, that if I was to restore it to my best quality, I would put 2500 into it, i told him that after he had the engine rebuilt, and bought all new rubber, he would probably be in the 5000 range at the highest, he said they didn't want to go over 7000. They aren't concerned about resale value of the tractor, his grandpa bought it brand new, and it will never leave the farm. They just like their stuff to look sharp, so toady I am going up there again to really look it over good, and we are going to talk about pay again, I am thinking I am going to ask 15 an hour, and if he don't like it, then good by! Bryce

Bruce,
Before you pull engine out, get it running. I replaced my tank. Bought it from YT for a little over $200. You may want to get a new carb and complete tune up kit from YT as well. Get her running first, then decide what you will need to do with radiator, clutch, hydraulics, which hydraulics is a real problem with a 60 year old ford that has no sump vent. You will find lots of rust and worn out parts there too.

The boys on the ford sight have tons of experince and advice on the NAA. They were very helpful when I needed help.

Just putting new rubber and rims on tractor far exceeds resale value. Let the guy know that first. He will be creating a money pit.

George

Any guy that would offer you a few loads dump truck loads of gravel and a sickle bar mower to restore a tractor hasn't got a clue what's going on in the world. Gravel is only a few dollars a yard so a 5 yard dump is worth less than $50 bucks. An old sickle mower's not worth much either. If he's that clueless I would probably say no thanks. Keep your sanity, keep your friend and let somebody else deal with the ford tractor.