(800) 853-2651
SHOP NOW

gas vs diesel

N

Neil Rowe

New User
I read in the tractor forum about the guy that was undecided weather to buy a gas or a diesel! I started with my first diesel in 1956 and have had them every since. I can not believe some of the comments on the diesel's. Why would anyone pull a diesel to start it or use either. Either is a good way to ruin an engine, bent rods, blown heads and a whole host of things. Put a tank heater on them. If used mine every day for 40 years feeding cattle hauling manure etc. Also buy good fuel. I started out using poor quality fuel and that just doesn't work. I have heard of people using kerosene in them and even mixing gasoline to keep it from jelling. This is sure disaster. The fellow saying they won't burn water! Didn't he ever hear of draining the water trap. I don't think a gas will burn water either. Also I only worked on one injector pump in all of those years. Don't be afraid of a diesel, just learn some of the basics. I have driven diesel's for so long it is just a big disappointment to drive a gas.
 
I'm always surprised to hear that IH deliberately encouraged owners to destroy their diesel engine by making an either assist standard equipment.
 
Before preheaters most of the IH tractors had an either injection system built right in if they think it's safe why should we worry about it.
Walt
 
Many of Deere's construction machines had either start on them.
Either is not bad, jut that a lot of folks think you need a gob of it to get them going, along with additional squirts to keep the worn out low compression ones running.
 
Agreed. A little bit goes quite a ways. One short can would last me a couple seasons. And that is with me using as a cleaner on hydraulic outlets and couplings. Works mighty fine as a cleaner.
The other end of the spectrum is I had a boss years ago that would empty a tall can into a 5hp Briggs to start it. I am surprised he never blew one up.
 
"Why would anyone pull a diesel to start it or use ether?" Well, to get it started! Lots of older diesels have tired starters, tired wiring and engines that will run OK once started, but won't start without a shot of ether. Ether is a buck and a half a can; engine rebuild is somewhere north of $2,500, which, in many cases, exceeds the value of the whole tractor. The math is pretty easy on that one. And ether will NOT ruin an engine, if you just give it a little shot while cranking it over. If it doesn't catch, wait a few seconds and repeat. If you just empty the can into it, you deserve what you get. I had an Oliver 1550 that needed a puff to start, and in all the years I had it, I never completely used a can of ether.

I like diesels, too, but if I was in a cold climate, I'd make sure I had a gas tractor capable of doing the winter chores. Fighting with gelled fuel and hard starting, accompanied by -20 temps, would not be my idea of fun.
 
I don't totally disagree and my newer diesels I will not use ether to start. But I've got an old 826 IH that will not start without a shot of either even in 100 degree weather. It's been that way since I got it 30 years ago. It also has had the 'hillside starter" used quite often. Saying it will destroy an engine is not necessarily true, you just have to use a little common sense.
 
I have the original operators manual for my Ford 4400, and the book includes: 3400, 3500, 4400, and 4500. When you flip to the "Starting Your Tractor" section, there is a special "Cold Weather Starting" section. In it, it shows a picture of a Ether can, up side down in a bracket by the operator, it says: Ether can assembly is an option from factory for cold weather starting, steps:
1 Set hand throttle to 1/3
2 Turn key to engage starter
3 While engine is spinning, push Ether release for 1/2 a second every 4 seconds until engine starts.
4 Allow extra warm up time for colder conditions.

So there you have it, my tractor didn't come with Glow Plugs, Block heaters, or anything else. My backhoe does have an aftermarket radiator heater in the bottom hose, but I store it under a tarp hidden by cedar trees 400 feet away from the shop, so electricity isn't really an option!
 
older john deere + others did have an approved either assist system-it used an orifice to allow a metered shot. directly into intake, so as to not get lost in air filter plumbing. true, common sense & spray can will work as well---
 
All the new Caterpillar construction equipment that I have worked on has an ether injection system. Programmed to give the engine a measured amount.
 
We have John Deeres with either kits on from the factory, 9000 Ford and 2-105 White have either kits on them never had a problem. I personally have had more starting trouble with gas than diesel. I got tired of teaching youngsters how to use a choke in 1975. I started buying diesel for the fuel savings, 3 cyl. Ford 4000 gas vs. diesel 12 gal to 30 gal. gasoline just can't afford gas!
 
You will stir some up on this.

I believe Ether in moderation is better than grinding on an engine to start. They are using Diesels in the arctic, it just takes proper precautions and planning.

I love my diesel tractors.
 
I prefer Diesel over gas except for when trying to start one on about 20 degree weather or lower. Gas just starts better at low temps.

As for using either/starting fluid or what ever. All my Deeres (except for the 620, it's a gas) have provisions for either injection as does my Gleaner F2. My Masseys have a built in place to access the air cleaner to give a shot of it.

Had to pull start most of my tractors at one time or another.

Funny none of them has had the engine apart since new.

I have a mouth. I sometimes put food in it.....

Maybe it's all just like eating. Do it right and we all live a good long life. Over do it and things happen.
 
It would take a really long extension cord to make a tank heater work in some the places I've had to start diesels.
 
i beleive most diesel equipment had ether as a starting aid even have oliver dozer with it so it not just an ih thing jd an everybody had that at 1 time just a little moderation and common sense goes a long way!
 
I parked a diesel skid steer out in the woods a month ago. Each time I've gone to start it the weather has been on the cold side. No luck.

I'm hoping the weather forecast is accurate for the weekend. It will be my best chance to get it started. I really like it when my equipment works not so much when it does not. I've played around with sharing cooling systems on old trucks and diesel equipment, piping exhaust into the engine compartment, propane blower, block heaters. They all worked to some degree. A well maintained piece of equipment is the best solutions. I should of known better (after market starter - got what I paid for.
 
Hate to burst your bubble, but in our climate sometimes -40 or colder ether is a necessity. Gas tractors are a lot handier to get going in the winter to plow snow, when you don"t have to wait a couple hours for your plugged in diesel to warm up. You would really freak if you saw us starting my sons PSD cummins pull truck. Steady spray for several minutes , sometimes have to reach for the 2nd can!
 
Pull choke out start tractor, let out clutch, kill tractor, pull choke out start tractor, leave choke out, foul plugs wash oil off rings. run battery down call me for help, comstant hassle. Put them on the diesel, they get the work done, just my experience.
 
I have an A/C 7020 that my Dad bought new in 1980, it came from the dealer with an ether system already installed, the ether button is right above the start button. Don't always need ether to get it started but when it's down below freezing you ain't gonna get it started without it. Been that way for 33 years and ain't blowed it up yet.
I have seen people over use ether and "ether lock" a engine, usually results in bent push rods or other damage, a can of ether don't come with common sense included, you're supposed to supply that on your own.
 
Long time ago at our local first tractor pull my Case 1070 outpulled all combers -Ih 1206 an some others-cousins Allis D21-couple John Deer. Well next year fellow with IH really beat us all ! Few years later at a farm sale secret was left out.On second year pull that Ih was fed ether an probably through the installed syatem on tractor.
 
Now that's an interesting comment Lyle.
I've been tooling around with these 3 cylinder Fords for a few years now.
Have had a few diesels and a few gassers as well.
Are you saying if I have a 4000 diesel hooked up and panting in front of a 6' bush hog I'm getting some work done but if I put a 4000 gasser in front of it and am putting out the same 52 horse I haven't a clue?
 
I can't even believe some of the comments below. I have 3 diesels and never ever owned a can of either, has no one heard of a block heater???? Or just me? I treat my fuel to prevent gelling, and plug them in a few hours before use in the cold, they all start fine. I don't put kerosene in them of use either.
 
actually they ran them on gas for 2 minutes before switching them to diesel... ha ha.
just showed this to a young 22 year old guy this fall and he was totally amazed.
 
(quoted from post at 08:58:20 12/18/13) I read in the tractor forum about the guy that was undecided weather to buy a gas or a diesel! I started with my first diesel in 1956 and have had them every since. I can not believe some of the comments on the diesel's. Why would anyone pull a diesel to start it or use either. Either is a good way to ruin an engine, bent rods, blown heads and a whole host of things. Put a tank heater on them. If used mine every day for 40 years feeding cattle hauling manure etc. Also buy good fuel. I started out using poor quality fuel and that just doesn't work. I have heard of people using kerosene in them and even mixing gasoline to keep it from jelling. This is sure disaster. The fellow saying they won't burn water! Didn't he ever hear of draining the water trap. I don't think a gas will burn water either. Also I only worked on one injector pump in all of those years. Don't be afraid of a diesel, just learn some of the basics. I have driven diesel's for so long it is just a big disappointment to drive a gas.
Click to expand...

Who's afraid of em? My 1206 gets used year round. Now if I had a gasser in the 60-70 HP range with a cab the diesel would get parked in the winter. When it's -30F it isn't any fun trying to start a diesel even when it's been plugged in.

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 02:57:22 12/19/13) Now that's an interesting comment Lyle.
I've been tooling around with these 3 cylinder Fords for a few years now.
Have had a few diesels and a few gassers as well.
Are you saying if I have a 4000 diesel hooked up and panting in front of a 6' bush hog I'm getting some work done but if I put a 4000 gasser in front of it and am putting out the same 52 horse I haven't a clue?
Click to expand...
ou're right Ultradog, gas is the way to go
 
Some of the folks working in the woods in Northern Wisconsin and Upper Michigan set it up so they hook heater hoses from their pick up to the diesel skidder that sets out all night in the woods. After a few minutes of circulating warn anti-freeze from their pick up the skidders will light fairly easy. Friend bought a new skidder with a Duetz engine, couldn't figure out where to hook the heater hoses on that one.
 
Interesting concept and in all honesty, I never thought of doing that. I'm long retired, but usta run 6 tractors, a combine, a cotton picker, a dozer and a backhoe; don't know how long it'd take to start 10 engines with a single portable generator..........guess I coulda bought 10 generators. 'course lots of times, we wouldn't run all 10 the same day, so I probably coulda got by with 5 or 6 portable generators. At the time, it just seemed so simple; a one second 'squirt' of ""either"" and a few seconds later, the engine is running.
 

Been using diesels farming for 45 years never had an engine problem resulting from cold weather. Plug them in they start every time ,just use common sense
 
i don't care what you say, i'm always careful and try not to get a drop on me or i almost feel like i have to go take a shower. stinkin stuff! lol. but i like the smell of it after it exits the exhaust.
 
Doubt it was ether. Ether in a warm running engine is likely to blow it up. The best ether injection systems allow a metered amount and are connected to a thermostat in the coolant that won't let it work if the coolant is hot. There are propane and water injection systems for diesels though. Somebody was probably feeding you a line instead of saying the engine had work done to it. Maybe they wanted someone else to try it and blow up their tractor?

I have never ever seen a can of either. Where do you buy it? The gas station, the farm store or either one? LoL

Used properly in engines designed for ether, it will not hurt them. If ether was so bad, how come so may new machines came with it and didn't have a disclaimer the warranty was voided? There are thousands of engines started every day using ether that haven't suffered any ill effects at all. Excessive amounts and improper use of ether is what causes the problems,not using it as directed.
 
I see a awful lot of gardeners running gas tractors on thier
mixer wagons feeding cows in the winter because they start
alot easier when it's cold. Then again you probably just came
up from the basement to stir things up.
 
Yeah Lyle! Go back down in the basement, ya dang sawyer! dontcha know that ya are stirring the(fuel) When its real cold, I have to use Jack Daniels to get me started. Wonder if it will work on a diesel?
 
US Army bus (International) stalled beside road. Shot some ether into it. Started right up---and then quit. Fuel gauge read full. Shot some more ether into it and actually had it running on ether. Would stop as soon as ether was removed. Got a 5 gal can of diesel and poured it in. Tried it again and it started right up. Turned out the driver left the motor pool with what he thought was a full tank. Gauge was stuck on full.
 
Cool. So now I get to start a cheap china built generator in 5 degree weather after it just spent half an hour with 70 MPH wind blowing through it before I start my tractor? Are you starting to see the problem with that idea?
 
(quoted from post at 06:47:57 12/19/13) Simlple, Portable generator.
Click to expand...

When you've got an hour to drive, and an hour to do a job, you don't have TWO hours to sit there freezing your heiney off waiting for the block heater to do its job.

There's nothing wrong with using ether. The problem is in using a LOT of ether.
 
Ya, lets use some common sense here! If you have to start 10 pieces of equipment all at the same time, than no the generator won't work. I'm talking about the guy that has one tractor in a barn, shed ect or outside with no power, then the generator works great. Besides most engine wear happens on cold starts , so I prefer to pre heat my engines. But if either works for you, that's great.
 
(quoted from post at 07:04:31 12/19/13) Ya, lets use some common sense here! If you have to start 10 pieces of equipment all at the same time, than no the generator won't work. I'm talking about the guy that has one tractor in a barn, shed ect or outside with no power, then the generator works great. Besides most engine wear happens on cold starts , so I prefer to pre heat my engines. But if either works for you, that's great.
Click to expand...

Ok, how do you rig it so the generator starts automatically so the tractor is all warmed up and ready for you when you get there? Simple answer: You don't.

You have to drive out to the site, start up the generator, plug the tractor in, and WAIT for TWO hours minimum. It takes time to warm up the coolant. It doesn't happen instantly.
 
Really??? As I said no it won't work. Let me explaine my
situation, that other people may have. I keep my tractor in a
barn that lost power for awhile, until we fixed it, power comes
from my brothers house to the barn, problem was in his house.
I went out started the generator, yes I HAD time to wait, do
other things ect, for the block heater to work,and it worked
fine, also your not supposed to use either with glow plugs i
was told. Now, If you need 15 peices of equipment, all at the
same time, at the drop of a hat, in the middle of nowere and
it's -13 degrees out, then no this WILL NOT WORK for you. It's
really that simple.
 
(quoted from post at 20:59:52 12/18/13)
Been using diesels farming for 45 years never had an engine problem resulting from cold weather. Plug them in they start every time ,just use common sense
Click to expand...

Seems to me that ND and northern MN get a heck of a lot colder that Neb. I, more than once left MN at -20 to -30 and by the time I got to Neb was in the +30 to +50 range.

Rick
 
Add to the list IH 312, 414,436 and 466 engines that came from the factory with an ether starting assist.

a small amount of ether won't harm a diesel designed for it.

If you have a glow plug engine you can't use ether as bad theings will happen.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

N
3020 Gas or 3010 Diesel
Replies
17
Views
1K
620 John
620 John
Geo-TH,In
Howes diesel treatment?
2
Replies
34
Views
1K
wilson ind
W
B
Old Diesel vs Old Gas
Replies
13
Views
518
Michael V (NM)
M
B
MF165 Diesel running hot
Replies
4
Views
190
Dieseltech
D
rustred
it was his turn today,
Replies
6
Views
1K
rustred
rustred
Tractor Parts Tractor Manuals

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy

Back
Top