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Are we going to see more older people get hurt without help?

J

JD Seller

Well-known Member
George's post below got me to thinking about how empty many places are during the day. I worry about how us older folks are going to get along with the rural areas emptying out of people in many places. In some smaller towns in the Plains there are only old people left anytime of the day. Here many of the small towns only have many younger people at night after they come home from work/school.

Have family in Ohio that are only 50 miles from Cinn. They talk about not having enough local people during the day to run the life squad calls in many of the smaller towns. Fire department would be the same.

Had a forty-five year old have a heart attack during the day. The youngest member of the life squad that responded was 65 and the driver was 78.

The community support that we are used too is not available in many areas now.

There are getting to be fewer jobs in the USA. It seems to be hitting the rural areas harder than the urban areas. So with more and more towns an villages becoming just bedroom communities there just are not many people around in the day time.

Also the trend of both the man and woman working is adding to the empty house issue too. My Mother did not work outside of the home until she was in her 50s. While us kids where smaller she helped care for several older relatives. She would check on them during the day. She provided care and support in person a few times each week for them. That is not possible in most households today.

I have no answers for the problem/issue but just wanted to see if this is a trend across the country or just here in the mid west and west.
 
Fortunately a great many of the older folks are rock solid tough. I had a great aunt living on her farm near Hector MN who passed away a few years ago at 103 Y.O. When she was in her 90's she was still tearing up and down the gravel roads in her big old Cadillac delivering meals on wheels to "old people". When the roads would get too bad for the Cad, she'd drive the old 1960's V-6 GMC PU. (RIP Hilda Johnson, you served your neighbors well.)

To add to the problem you are describing, the elder's need for seeing a doctor on short notice is increasing with age. And there are almost no doctors except in the regional area hospitals, and then there might be only one doc on duty in the ER. So what might be a somewhat minor heart attack can mean the end for that person. Thankfully cell phones have proved helpful in getting quicker responses. But folks need to carry that cell phone 100% of the time when out of the house, and we don't always remember to do that.

I do believe you are 100% correct, and this is a problem which has very few good solutions.

Paul in MN
 
JD,I live in the Eastern Panhandle of WV,which is in the metropolitan area of Baltimore and Washington DC,and its the same problem here.We have about 2 Volunteer fire and rescue stations here in town and they scratch on a daily basis.Three or 4 stations in the county which is only 15 minutes away.Our county has had to go to paid staff at our volunteer stations and a central 911 station that is maned 24 hours a day.Each resident has to pay a 911 fee each year on our taxes.All of this is still with the help of our volunteers.
In the countys of Virginia which is only 10 miles from us,the county has all but done away with the volenteers.With the cost of equipemt,training,and supplies,and State and goverment requirments,plus our 911 tax leveys the local people cant hardly afford it

jimmy
 
Add to that what's being said, many volunteer fire dept's may be closed because the govn't says their "employer" (though volunteers are unpaid) will have to pay for the volunteers' health care. Surely not, this needs a remedy!
 
Here in Northwest Iowa, smaller towns, with lack of
volunteers, have hired county law enforcement, and
contracting ambulance, service if necessary.
 
As far as the fire and EMS goes, in my state they've upped the requirements so much that hardly anyone wants to volunteer or can keep up with the training. On top of that, they have to do stuff like bingo 2-3 times a week to make extra money to "grow the organization". It's crap. All we need is a 1st response unit, a small pumper/tanker that can hold the scene for 15 minutes until the big company arrives. Can't do it, can't afford it, no one will help, no one wants to be part of it. Pretty sad and all the fault of lawyers and OSHA and the national fire people.

Old folks out here do okay. Our churches are pretty active. Our veterans organizations too. Our Amish tend to check their elderly English neighbors and that's a help. Mostly it's the churches though. That's about the last of our community spirit left.
 
I don"t know a thing about VFD insurance, but I do know that employers are not required to provide insurance unless they have over 50 employees.
 
Just the opposite where I'm located people moving in in droves,traffic is terrible,at least 7 Walmarts within 35 miles of my farm,endless food places and shopping areas.Most places in the US seem to be going in either of 2 directions like my area or like your area.Of course in rural areas most of the low tech plants to work at are gone and the farms are getting larger and larger with no need for many workers all pretty predictable that the population is dropping.That is until the Gov't finally goes bust and then everything will change most likely be a mass exodus from the cities to the countryside so be careful what you ask for as you might get it.
 
Here in Texas the cities and suburbs are booming and even the small cities within 30 - 40 miles of a major city are growing. The small towns farther out are dying. My hometown looks like a ghost town. The only people moving there are folks who went to the city to work and are moving back home after retirement. And immigrant workers who work the poultry farms in the area of course. A friend there told me if it weren't for the workers kids they'd have to shut down the school. I remember when you couldn't find a place to park on Main Street on Saturday. Sad.
 
Answer YES we are, because that generation, The Greatest Generation, tend to be self reliant and try to do for themselves and may be reluctant to ask for help THATS HOW THEY WERE RAISED AND THOSE ARE THEIR VALUES.

I have 2 older WW II Vet old farmer type neighbors (88 yo) who call on Old Jonh T for fixing mail boxes, fixing TV etc., fixing a plumbing or electrical problem, fixing cars and changing oil in mowers etc etc etc AND IM GLAD TO HELP yet not many others are so willing including their own family perhaps.

Its a sign of the times and a generational thing so YES were going to se more of it in todays me me me society.

John T Older baby boomer generation, sons of WW II Vets
 
The same 50 requirement applies to VFDs. My little town of 1100 has 26 volunteers on staff so a town of 8000-10000 could easily have 50. Wait until they decide to extend the obamcare 50 rule to other volunteer organizations such as Scouting, youth sports coaches, candy stripper volunteers, FFA, 4H, and the list could easily go on. It's time to really wake up to this mess.
 
Was she Dave"s mom? He was south of town, east side of road....met him years ago while politicking.
 
JD, No doubt it is a problem. But unlike some of the posters, I don't see it as somebodies fault. It is just the way our society is reshaping itself. Used to be 10 farmers, each with 160 acres...now it is 1 farmer with 1600 acres. Not anyones fault, just an economic change.
Yes, the small areas have been hurt the most by small low wage, low tech factories going overseas. It is a well documented fact. Lots of those people are unemployed, where are they?

What if we required the unemployed, getting unemployment payments to work on the fire station..like a CCC camp? I know...no skills...that is why they are unemployed generally.

I grew up in a county without a hospital, or an ambulance. They used to put people in a hearse (or a car) and drive them 30 miles to a hospital. Now they have a full time EMT staff, a full time 911 staff, $3 or $4 Million in new firehouses and trucks. Need an ambulance to go to the hospital with a hangnail. EMT guys say that 5% of the population cause 90% of the trips. Population is the same, costs up 1000%. No wonder counties are broke. Hard to see how life is all that much better.

PS: Ghost towns are not a recent creation...been around a long time.
 
Urban areas are growing and the rural towns are shrinking. This trend has been happening since the 1980's and probably much much longer. People still choose where they want to live.

Locally, many smaller towns are coordinating with other towns and the county to provide emergency services and reduce redundancy. It is working.
 
No, her 2 sons were Eddie and Gordy Johnson. Eddie passed away about Christmas time last year. Gordy still lives in Franklin. I errored last night when I said the family farm was in the Fairfax location, it is (was) closer to Franklin, maybe a couple of miles NE of Franklin. I occasionally stopped at the cafe in Fairfax when out in that area. Is there a bowling alley in Fairfax?? I think both Eddie and Gordy bowled there.

Paul in MN
 
Yes JD--its happening all over--even here in suburban Long island--I AM A 50 year active volunteer fireman and the makeup of the community has changed greatly--so many husbands and wives work out of town that we hurt for personnel during the day--so what we have done is hire first responders 24/7 for medical calls--this leaves more time for an ambulance crew to get together--and yes-us old timers are doing a lot of it. If we need assistance on medical and fire calls we have a good mutual aid system with the neighboring towns
Bret was right on the mark with the tremendous rules and requirements for training here in NY State--much of it totally unnecessary, which discourages younger people from volunteering.
 
Back in the late 1950's my wife's uncle fell from the hay mow to the floor. He was over 50 miles from a hospital in Harrisburg PA. He died before he reached the hospital. If that wasn't bad enough his youngest daughter was with him. She was in treatment for a long time. My wife's dad told me he was almost attacked by their Holstein bull. He jumped up and grabbed the hay rack to get away. He said got even later when he shot the bull that was being slaughtered. He even hog dressed the bull. Hal
 
People are just to wrapped up with their own life these days to care about their neighbors.
Dropping in on each other for coffee or a chat seems a thing of the past. I quit doing it too when i found out it was just a one way street
I personally have not seen a neighbor just for a visit on my yard in years. they only come when they need something fixed in a hurry on a weekend or in the evening.

About 5 years ago on a visit by a distant neighbor they were talking about not having seen an old guy living alone next door to them(1/4 ml) for a couple weeks. It looked abandoned they said, but the lights were on at night and truck parked in the his driveway but no tracks in the snow that showed it was used in a while.
I suggested to go have a look, the guy may need help or worse!.
Well it turned out the old bugger had died on his living room floor and was already half liquid and had to be scraped of the floor.
2 more neighbors, one living kitty corner across from the dude and another one within 1/2 mile.

Like i said,..no one cares!. :(
 

The way I see it, as long as the Guv'mnt keeps passing UNEMPLOYMENT Payment Extensions, people will keep expecting to refuse to look for work..

What is it 5 (FIVE) times they have passed an Unemployment extension..?

If the the people understood (that) if you don't WORK you DON'T EAT, people would be LOOKING for a job on your Squad..(and they would not be Demanding $60,000+ Salary to do it..

Ron.
 
When we retired, we moved to a Senior Citizen Community. Almost everyone there were in middle 60's and older and we had an ample workforce of volunteers. A few years later, we had an influx of younger retirees between mid-50's to mid-60's, with most of them coming from the western side of WA.

That generation would not volunteer to do anything, yet would go to the board meeting and demand more and more things. The board raise the HOA fees and hired some paid people but that didn't work out either.

The younger generation became disenchanted that the HOA wouldn't do what they wanted, so they all put their houses up for sale and moved to Florida. All of the other retirees were very happy to see them leave and become a problem for Florida.
 
BushogPapa: The life squad positions are VOLUNTEER ones not paid positions. So the unemployment checks/extensions would not effect the people available fore the squad.

I do agree with yours feelings about the unemployment being too easy/long to get/draw.

I have never drawn any unemployment. I never had to look longer than a few days for work. The job I found might not have been what I wanted to do but it was a pay check.
 
(quoted from post at 05:32:00 12/14/13) As far as the fire and EMS goes, in my state they've upped the requirements so much that hardly anyone wants to volunteer or can keep up with the training. On top of that, they have to do stuff like bingo 2-3 times a week to make extra money to "grow the organization". It's crap. All we need is a 1st response unit, a small pumper/tanker that can hold the scene for 15 minutes until the big company arrives. Can't do it, can't afford it, no one will help, no one wants to be part of it. Pretty sad and all the fault of lawyers and OSHA and the national fire people.

Old folks out here do okay. Our churches are pretty active. Our veterans organizations too. Our Amish tend to check their elderly English neighbors and that's a help. Mostly it's the churches though. That's about the last of our community spirit left.
Click to expand...

I was a volunteer for 35 years. For the last five we were getting paid when on a call but I signed my check over to the association. We got a new young chief, very insecure and pridefull who hated having the old timers around. Over the weekends the young guys were not turning out for calls and sometimes I was the only one. I was the sixth most active but the chief's feelings counted for more so I was forced out, and then four other old timers resigned. But it was the Lord's plan and now I volunteer at church, I am in charge of the building and I am hurting right now after spending the day spray-buffing and putting three coats of finish on a 2,000 sq. ft. floor. For the most part the old timers have to suck it up and keep doing the job because the young people will not. OLD GUYS RULE!!!
 
Times have changed.Many good carpenters are out of work.Talked with a young man who works with concrete in his own business ,has to work for another company this year.He helped me hay as a teenager, good worker.These are hard times for many people.
 

To hear the Spin the Leftists put on it, things are just Honky-Dori...

So glad he TOOK a job and didn't sit down and draw a check..

Ron.
 
(quoted from post at 05:40:14 12/14/13) I don"t know a thing about VFD insurance, but I do know that employers are not required to provide insurance unless they have over 50 employees.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately that's not quite true anymore. Same thing was supposed to apply years back to OSHA- you had to have a certain number of paid EMPLOYEES. Somehow that got changed and what used to apply to factories and such now applies to some VOLUNTEER organizations. Same thing is happening with external_linkcare and vol fire depts/EMS. It's not a sure thing yet, but it's been in the headlines over the past few days.
 
Don't be too hard on those drawing UI. In my corner of the world unemployment is still a huge problem. There are very few jobs available around here.
Underemployment is a big problem too and it's going to get worse.

Back to the original question...
I think the answer is yes, more older folks will get hurt without help. It's not just the country folks either. The real problem is older folks generally resist making lifestyle changes that would make their lives easier and safer.
My in-laws are a good example. They did an excellent job of planning financially for their golden years. They did a terrible job managing their living conditions. My FIL got transferred from IL to SC in his late 50's. They should have moved back to IL or made changes to their home and lifestyle in SC while they were still in good health. It's strange. Like most seniors I know they embraced learning how to use computers and other electronic toys, but balked at things like removing a tub and installing a walk in shower, or even very simple things like putting up grab bars and having a neighbor kid bring the mail and newspapers to the house from the boxes by the road. We eventually had to move them back to IL kicking and screaming. They were terrible about taking their meds because their memories are so bad. We figured my MIL was about 2 weeks from being hospitalized or worse when we moved them. They are doing much better now that they are up here where my wife and her brother can take care of them.
 
JD I don't think more old people are going to get hurt, more are going to die after they get hurt/have a medical issue.

We have 2 towns. Each about 7 miles away with vol fire and rescue. One has trouble keeping enough people. That town has more or less dedicated itself to be a tourist/bedroom community. So the folks young enough to really do the job are out of town and 20 miles away all day most days. The other town relies on AG for it's existence. They have several businesses in town with enough people working that they can respond and respond well. Our mailing address town has less than 100 people. They have a volunteer fire department. They are the ones who responded, on a work day to my BIL's tractor fire in 14 minutes. They are farmers and a couple of small business owners. But they are pretty good. If I didn't have bum knees I would volunteer.

Rick
 
(quoted from post at 09:46:42 12/15/13) JD I don't think more old people are going to get hurt, more are going to die after they get hurt/have a medical issue.

We have 2 towns. Each about 7 miles away with vol fire and rescue. One has trouble keeping enough people. That town has more or less dedicated itself to be a tourist/bedroom community. So the folks young enough to really do the job are out of town and 20 miles away all day most days. The other town relies on AG for it's existence. They have several businesses in town with enough people working that they can respond and respond well. Our mailing address town has less than 100 people. They have a volunteer fire department. They are the ones who responded, on a work day to my BIL's tractor fire in 14 minutes. They are farmers and a couple of small business owners. But they are pretty good. If I didn't have bum knees I would volunteer.

Rick
Click to expand...

Rick, get those knees replaced before it becomes both hips AND knees.
 
(quoted from post at 10:18:57 12/15/13)
(quoted from post at 09:46:42 12/15/13) JD I don't think more old people are going to get hurt, more are going to die after they get hurt/have a medical issue.

We have 2 towns. Each about 7 miles away with vol fire and rescue. One has trouble keeping enough people. That town has more or less dedicated itself to be a tourist/bedroom community. So the folks young enough to really do the job are out of town and 20 miles away all day most days. The other town relies on AG for it's existence. They have several businesses in town with enough people working that they can respond and respond well. Our mailing address town has less than 100 people. They have a volunteer fire department. They are the ones who responded, on a work day to my BIL's tractor fire in 14 minutes. They are farmers and a couple of small business owners. But they are pretty good. If I didn't have bum knees I would volunteer.

Rick
Click to expand...

Rick, get those knees replaced before it becomes both hips AND knees.
Click to expand...

I've been trying. Service connected and VA want's me to wait or it's I'm at 6'5" over 250 LBS and they want me under 250. I'm going to talk to the patient advocate after Christmas. If that fails I'll get the news media involved.

Rick
 
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