Has anyone seen a tractor wired like this?

It is a Case vac that has been converted to 12 volt negative ground(?). The positive goes from the battery to one side of the solenoid. The other side of the solenoid goes to the frame. The negative post on the battery goes to the hot lug on the starter. Every thing seems to work. The only thing I can figure is, it is grounding through the brushes and armature of the starter.

Well it's definitely NOT negative ground and probably not charging.

It does charge, and the only time the + makes direct contact with the frame, is when the solenoid is engaged. Positive goes to the lights an gauges as it should and they are grounded to the frame.

If it's wired as you describe, I'm not sure how it could possibly work.

Have you owned the tractor long enough to know that it charges for sure? It is possible that the ammeter is hooked up backwards and what you're seeing is DISCHARGE. You'll find out soon enough when one day you'll come out and the battery will be too dead to start it.

Why are you calling it "negative" ground? Considering your battery positive is going to the tractor frame (what we usually call "ground") - what added factor has you calling it negative ground instead of positive?

So basically the tractor is "positive ground" for the cranking system and "negative ground" for the charging system. I guess it can work but why would anyone bother?

John Deere use to make tractors with a groundless cranking system, an half the rest was negative ground on one side and positive ground on the other. But . . the starter and generator were isolated and not grounded at all.

Like I said, it is my neighbors tractor. He has had it for years and yes, it charges. The only place the negative post of the battery is connected is to the hot lug on the starter. Besides the starter and solenoid being reversed, everything else is wired like a negative ground system. That means all + current going back to the battery has to be going through the starter. Were sure it isn't right, just not sure why it works.

Sorry, I didn't say it is my neighbors tractor. The reason I don't feel it is positive ground, is because the only time positive goes to ground is when the solenoid is engaged. And then it has to go through starter to get to the battery.

(quoted from post at 10:31:43 12/06/13) Sorry, I didn't say it is my neighbors tractor. The reason I don't feel it is positive ground, is because the only time positive goes to ground is when the solenoid is engaged. And then it has to go through starter to get to the battery.

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t works because, as you said in your initial post, the loads & charging are functioning through the very, very, very low resistance of the starter windings/brushes. As jdemaris said, neg ground for loads/charging & pos ground for starting. The only real problem that I see is that if not a mag tractor, where does ignition get power to start? Seems as though that during starter operation, that lights & ignition should be dead. Do lights go out when hit starter? Does it fire off just as you let off the starter?

NO, never seen one wired like that, lets analyze what you said:

"The positive goes from the battery to one side of the solenoid."

That's what you would find on a NORMAL correct wired tractor that's NEGATIVE GROUND. On those + of Battery to starter solenoid, - of Battery to frame ground. i.e. Negative Ground

HOWEVER ON YOURS you say

"The other side of the solenoid goes to the frame."

In that case, if the solenoid engages then IT HAS THE BATTERY + TO FRAME GROUND IE POSITIVE GROUNDED

"The negative post on the battery goes to the hot lug on the starter"

In that case the battery - post is direct to the starter lug and to operate the starter its case/frame needs to be connected to the batterys other + post WHICH HAPPENS IF THE SOLENOID IS ENGAGED.

IT GROUNDS VIA THE STARTERS CASE FRAME (via solenoid) JUST LIKE ANY NORMAL SET UP and the batterys other post is to the lug SO IT WORKS ALMOST LIKE NORMAL LOL.

PS Did Billy Bob or his know it all brother in law Bubba wire that over a case of beer???????????????? When questioned they always respond HEY IT WORKS and you gotta give it to em, yep it does lol

John T

(quoted from post at 05:51:14 12/06/13) It is a Case vac that has been converted to 12 volt negative ground(?). The positive goes from the battery to one side of the solenoid. The other side of the solenoid goes to the frame. The negative post on the battery goes to the hot lug on the starter. Every thing seems to work. The only thing I can figure is, it is grounding through the brushes and armature of the starter.

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bet the battery has swapped polarity. - is now +
When run completely dry one can charge a batt back up with the charger leads reversed.

Good one

How is the rest of the electrical system connected to the battery. Positive terminal or negative

(quoted from post at 17:32:15 12/06/13)

(quoted from post at 05:51:14 12/06/13) It is a Case vac that has been converted to 12 volt negative ground(?). The positive goes from the battery to one side of the solenoid. The other side of the solenoid goes to the frame. The negative post on the battery goes to the hot lug on the starter. Every thing seems to work. The only thing I can figure is, it is grounding through the brushes and armature of the starter.

Click to expand...

bet the battery has swapped polarity. - is now +
When run completely dry one can charge a batt back up with the charger leads reversed.

Click to expand...

hat wouldn't change his goofy circuit. Draw it out.

I am not sure I am following this right, but there are solenoids that ground the starter to engage.

(quoted from post at 00:14:17 12/07/13) I am not sure I am following this right, but there are solenoids that ground the starter to engage.

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ell, may? be, but......the circuit that blackhole49 described is NOT one of them. Like I told the other responder, draw the circuit as he described it.