Diesel sleeve question

Royse · Nov 28, 2013

I'm working on a 3 cylinder Chinese made diesel with dry sleeves.
When I roll the engine over by hand, head off, the sleeves move
with the pistons.
The sleeves are fine, clean and shiny inside, and I can hold them
in place with my hand while turning the engine.
I'm told that's normal with this type of engine.
Anyone have any experience with these engines?
Does that sound normal to you?

mechanicfred · Nov 28, 2013

The last dry sleeve I"ve seen move with the piston
was because the block was wore. I haven"t seen any
engines where they should move that easily.

cole in mo. · Nov 28, 2013

Might be normal for a Chinese engine, but on every dry sleeve engine I ever worked on the sleeves were tight fit. If you had one that was loose, there was a problem.

Royse · Nov 28, 2013

(quoted from post at 13:02:42 11/28/13) Might be normal for a Chinese engine, but on every dry sleeve engine I ever worked on the sleeves were tight fit. If you had one that was loose, there was a problem.

That has been my experience too Cole, but this is the first
Chinese engine I have torn down.
Oh, and it's not just one sleeve that moves, it's all of them.

Royse · Nov 28, 2013

mechanicfred, I sure hope it's not a worn block.
It's all three cylinders and it's only 6 years old.

Bob · Nov 28, 2013

Is there a "lip" at the top of the sleeves that gets clamped down by the head gasket when the head is installed?

Paul from MI · Nov 28, 2013

If this is a dry sleeve engine a sleeve that loose wouldn't transfer heat to the block very well. If it's wet sleeve might not be a problem as long as it doesn't leak water into the oil.

flying belgian · Nov 28, 2013

who told you that was ok? If it was from a credible
source then probably is ok. I'm thinking it must be
ok if all three are the same. Is there anything on
the head or gasket that looks as tho it can
accommodate holding sleeves?

Royse · Nov 28, 2013

Yes, there is definitely a lip on the top of the sleeve that the
steel ring of the gasket sets on. It is actually quite pronounced.

Royse · Nov 28, 2013

I believe he's a credible source, he's a dealer and parts supplier who has
been very helpful and not trying to sell me parts until I know what I need.
I'll definitely be getting my parts through them if it's worth fixing.

Janicholson · Nov 28, 2013

To me it would seem that unless the sleeve was an eighth of an inch thick, it would fail at the rim and suck into the moving parts. I would ask were the original sleeves loose? If so do it. If not get different sleeves. If it is a customer, I would get them in on the decision. Jim

rrlund · Nov 28, 2013

The dry sleeves in that big 478 Hercules in the 2-135 White is that way. It said in the I&T manual that you could pull the sleeves by hand. I thought yea right,there must be a page missing. When I got the head off,four of the six came right up with the pistons. I got under it with a punch and was going to start tapping on the other two,but I didn't have to. They pushed right up from the bottom.

Ray · Nov 28, 2013

Bolt the sleeves down.You can usually take a big flat washer and screw a short bolt in to the head bolt holes.

Ozlander · Nov 28, 2013

(quoted from post at 11:11:54 11/28/13) Bolt the sleeves down.You can usually take a big flat washer and screw a short bolt in to the head bolt holes.

And then what, run it without the head?

pete 23 · Nov 28, 2013

I had many D-282 IH engine apart that had the original loose fit sleeves. You could just reach inside of sleeve and pull it up part way. We did this to add shims under the flange to get proper flange height over the block for head gasket sealing. Later they went to a hand push sleeve. Still not tight by any means.

Later than that they came with over size sleeves, .002 and .010. I put in a quite a few oversize ones to get a nice light press fit with a small amount of ridged honing to clean and straighten cyl.

The 450 diesel with the D-281 also was hand push. They used to come up and down with piston. The older thicker sleeves on the D-264 were some times tighter but not always.

David G · Nov 28, 2013

Ray has it, bolt the sleeves down, then remove bolts put head on and be done. Just do not turn crank after you remove the bolts until head is torqued down.

Welding man · Nov 28, 2013

Get a tube of Locktite sleeve retainer and put on the sleeves, shove them in and let them set overnight , problem solved.

Ray · Nov 28, 2013

He's not running it he's working on it.Bolting them down is standard procedure in any shop.

Anonymous-0 · Nov 28, 2013

They need to be at least metal to metal fit for proper heet transfer with proper hight on flange as per book for head to seal and hold down liner. RENE'

Royse · Nov 28, 2013

(quoted from post at 19:17:46 11/28/13) He's not running it he's working on it.Bolting them down is standard procedure in any shop.

Ray, you are right, I'm working on it, not running it.
You say "standard procedure in any shop" to bolt them down.
Is that standard procedure for diesels in general, or these
Chinese diesels or for all engines in general?
I've never had to bolt the sleeves down in my gassers, so I'm
honestly asking for the information as to what would be "standard".
The sleeves in my gassers are sealed into the block.
They don't move unless there is a problem.
I've never dealt with a Chinese diesel before, and diesel in
general is just barely within my realm of knowledge.
So I'll take any suggestions ya'll have.

samn40 · Nov 28, 2013

The Standard motors built diesel 23c engine is just like that....you
have to bolt the liners down to work on it....to remove a liner just
put your hand inside and make a fist and withdraw the liner!!
Doesn't always work but that is how they are supposed to be, So
your Chinese diesel may be the same?
Sam

Robert Major · Nov 28, 2013

Hi
Never done a Chinese dry sleeve, all the ones I've done have been Perkins and a complete pain,getting old out and new in.

when you look at the head face can you to see any circular marks, where the flame ring on the gasket/or on top of sleeve if it has a raised ring on. have worn into the head surface.
In wet sleeve motors when liners move it makes those marks as the sleeve pounds on the gasket or the flame ring hits the head.
I would be thinking the dry sleeve would do the same if it moves any with the head on when running.
Regards Robert

showcrop · Nov 28, 2013

I had that situation with my ford 960. I found that you are supposed to glue them in with the special Lock Tite product like Weldimg Man says. It gives you the heat transfer that you need too.

Robert Major · Nov 28, 2013

Hi
I get what you say with the loctite but what concerns me now is, if those sleeves are dry and they should of been locked in with a glue product.
Whats been happening for the years it's not been glued in.
I'm kinda wondering if it's worn out now and chinese how good it is anyway, if it's some newer cheap import. Maybe it should be heading back to china on the next free boat L.O.L
Regards Robert

VicS · Nov 28, 2013

Just got my little 2-53 detroit back together. As
soon as I got the sleeves in I made a strap to bolt
them down while I got the rods hooked up. As per
instructions in the Detroit book.

rustred · Nov 29, 2013

i have did sleeves on the 282"s amd the 281"s and i agree with pete 21 , its just as he says.
also the sleeve will get tight from combustion heat. they wont just pull out on a later overhaul.

Royse · Nov 29, 2013

Thank you all. I guess I'll just leave them be and see what happens.
It was running fine when I tore it down, so I guess it's not hurt too bad.
Had antifreeze in the oil and oil in the radiator, that's what I'm fixing.

Diesel sleeve question

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