More on alternative energy

NCWayne

Well-known Member
Just reading the posts below about alternative energy sources and many seem to feel that solar power isn't really viable. To some extent I agree as solar panels are largely inefficient when it comes to the ratio of size to power output. Why though are we restricting ourselves to harnessing the suns power through a solar panel? Granted solar panels seem to have the attention of the masses, so to speak, but there is another way.

I can't remember where I saw it, but there is supposed to be at least one power plant that harnesses the suns heat to create steam and make power through a turbine. Basically all it does is take a mirror array and direct the suns rays onto a target that heats a liquid that, in turn, heats the water, turning it to steam to turn the turbine and therefore a generator. It's been quite awhile since I saw the article about the plant, but the KW output vs the footprint of the plant was way smaller than the usual array of solar panels needed for a similar output.

Too, I have yet to see anyone mention the methane being recovered from landfills and burned for energy. I remember reading one article a while back about a sewage treatment plant somewhere that was being powered by a turbine generator burning methane harnessed off of a neighboring landfill. Maybe that power plant wasn't large enough to handle an entire city, but for every small plant like it, that's that much power not being drawn off the existing power grid.

Right down the road from me they are in the process of building a plant beside a sewer treatment plant that will bring in dried cakes of waste to burn. Can't say with 100% certainty as all I know is what I was told by the plant personnel, but the plan is supposed to be to burn the cakes to create steam and turn a turbine.

Along the same lines we once had a local plant that burned trash. In that case it supplied power to the grid, as well as supplying steam to a college for heating, etc. It was eventually shut down because it supposedly wasn't profitable to operate. Thing is less than 5 miles away is a transfer plant where all they do is bring in individual truck loads of trash and dump them. Once dumped the material is then loaded onto larger trucks/trailers for transport to the actual landfill.

Ultimately there are quite a few 'alternative' fuel sources. Thing is many aren't built because the initial cost is so high that modern companies looking for an instant return on their money aren't willing to put out the money upfront. Too, the EPA, which is supposed to be protecting out environment, is doing just as much harm as they are good. The technology is out there to keep the emissions from pretty much any type of power plant within 'regs' but often it's at a cost far to high for many companies to handle. I mean look at what the current administration has done to the coal industry. If the plants already in existence were going to 'pollute us out of existence' they already would have done so. In other words what's the use taxing them to death, forcing them to install machinery/technology to meet emission standards that take all the profit out of the equation, when all it's going to do is create even more demand for alternative technologies that are, in may respects, still in their infancy, or not invented yet?

Ultimately there are a lot of alternative energy sources out there. The problem is that until they reach a point that they are economically viable for the companies putting them into practice, we're going to be stuck using fossil fuels for a long time to come.
 
They just burn off the methane at the landfills in my corner of the world.
As for the transfer stations....Garbage is hauled from the transfer station to a sorting plant. Recyclables are pulled out and sold. That can be anything from various metals to gypsum, to wood and plastics. I suspect some is burned as fuel. Whatever is left goes to the landfill.
 
The problem is,we here in the US skipped a step in the evolution of solar technology. Several years ago there was a small company here that made panels that heated air. They sold a bunch of them around here. They bolted them to the south sides of houses,cut a hole for a duct and when the sun was shining,they blew hot air in to the house.

Fast forward 25 years and we got a huge new pair of tax payer subsidized factories to build panels to generate electricity on an industrial scale. That whole deal lasted about a year.
We totally skipped over panels for individuals that heated water and the tanks to store that hot water in the home. In Europe the technology is common as dirt,but we Americans have to be too smart by half.
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Solar panels
 
in my area somerset pa 1 state prison uses methane gas from a landfill for heat it is piped in !!!!!
 
Goggle the words MagneGas.
You might be surprised we already have things that can produce cheap energy and clean up the envirement at the same time.
The goverment won't give those people the time of the day, but their biggest customers are some foreign countrys.
 
European countries are a lot more receptive to these kinds of things. Sweden for example produces no oil of their own and still their government voted a year or so ago to stop all oil imports by 2020. There's no doubt in my mind that they can pull it off. The majority of their cars are 60mpg diesels and they can make diesel fuel without petroleum.
 
We have on our co-op lines a bio-digester that uses a 600 dairy cow manure pit to produce all the farm's electric and some to sell back.
 
The huge dump,"Mt.Trashmore".on I-85, near Spartanburg,SC, is a source of Methane that is piped to the BMW plant. They use it to run gas turbine generators helping to power the plant.
 
There'a a highschool near here that has a solar array on the roof. They claim that they make enough electricity to provide most of the building needs. (Which I doubt) Teacher showed me that they were coming out ahead, but any sell back is sold to power company at highly inflated price.
 
Solar cells are getting much more efficient and longer lasting. I do not know if it is better to use them or collectors and spin turbines.
 

There is a 240 acre landfill about thirty miles from me. a few years ago they laid pipe for about ten miles from it to the state university in order to get the methane there for heating. That collector that makes steam doesn't make much. it would take a series of huge concentrating collectors to make enough steam to accomplish anything.
It is true that these alternative energy cost a lot to build but a lot of your tax dollars are going to programs to help people build them.
 
Make of this what you want.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2013/08/19/out-of-ideas-and-in-debt-spain-sets-sights-on-taxing-the-sun/
 
Talked to guy today has a "Lister " single cylinder engine he heats shop with and generates electricity. Burns waste oil . They have some cool videos on YouTube
 

I have a waukesha 145GZ -817 cubic inch engine

in the shop for rebuild now. It runs on methane

from the manure pit from a dairy farm in cecil

county md.generator is 115 kw.

Also bored and honed a final stage nat gas comp,

ready to be picked up , did one 4 or 5 years

ago also.


george
 
Getting back to the OP- 30 years back we had co-generation plants all over up here. The idea was they were supposed to burn trash and make power. Not a one remains because they were massively inefficient. We have another form of co-gen plant that heats, with nat gas, 2 prisons and a phsyc center. They aren't even producing 10% of their rated out put, but as I understand since the it's a State/private enterprise deal they can't sell the power on the open market. The solar array thing? They had a proposed set up int he south west desert some place a few years back. I forget if it was solar to gen power or steam to power, but either way it got killed off because the greenies blocked it. The shade from the arrays would have created a cooler climate in the desert and some cricket or toad might possibly have had to move 6 feet over to a sunny spot! Same for tidal generators. Can't have them, or off shore wind farms, because it ruins the view and might smack a bird or a fish.

For every answer you offer, there will be 100 well funded anti-power organizations that sue to block any good idea. Meanwhile natural gas is burbbling out of the ground near me and there are laws specifically preventing anyone from collecting it and using it.........

Follow the money trail and you'll find out why we don't do what is sensible and why we invest in the outlandish.
 
Our landfill's methane powers a brick factory.

A very large dairy farm in northern Indiana makes methane too.

Tend to think bio-methane has a lot of promise.
 
NC Wayne, What you are not factoring into the account of whether an alternative energy source is economically feasible is the health risks of emphysema, COPD , lung cancer and other pulmonary diseases associated with coal generating power plants.
 
(quoted from post at 08:35:03 11/25/13)
Follow the money trail and you'll find out why we don't do what is sensible and why we invest in the outlandish.

True words.

Can't speak for the power plant ideas or grid tie jazz. But I run my camp off grid. I don't need a noisey generator. Plenty of power for refridgeration, lights, charging tools, laptop etc.
 
I'm 1-1/2 miles and up wind from the nearest wind turbines. I would like to shove a turbine blade up an orifice of the persons responsible.
 
wind energy kills millions of birds a year, I hope you like eating bugs. Wind energy is the biggest fraud pushed on the American people.
 

Wind energy is the biggest fraud? I thought the other threads said it was ethanol.
BTW, if you are worried about birds, cats kill far more birds than windmills.
 
I have a feeling cars and trucks kill far, far more birds than windmills will ever kill, and frogs, turtles, toads, fox, woodchucks, beaver, snakes, deer, etc.
 

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