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Dilemma on how to approach an issue???

O

Old Iowa

Member
Five years ago a young fellow was riding with a friend from a party. They both where drunker than skunks. The drunk driver wrecked his truck right at the edge of my property. The drunk passenger was throw out of the truck. He died while in route to the hospital.

Now the issue. The fellow that died was an alright young man, he was only 20 years old. He was just a regular kid. His family put up a small cross at the accident site. Then over the years they added a few flowers. This is not really any big issue. Now they came to me and want to put a permanent Marker up. I do mean headstone type of marker. This is the problem.

The kid is buried in a local cemetery. That is where any marker should be in my opinion. (There is a headstone there already) I understand how losing a young man like that effects parents. They are not rich people by any means. They are what we would have called working poor years ago. The trouble is that they have elevated what there son was to the point he is just like Lincoln or JFK in their eyes. So they think the accident site is important.

I have tolerated the small cross and other things in consideration of their "feelings" and their loss. I kind of figured that they would gradually get over their loss and would quit the shrine deal. Now they want a concrete footer and stone marker there. This would be within 250 feet of my front door. I really do not want this there. I think it could really hurt the value of my home when I would go to sell it. Plus I own the land where this all happened. It is not their's just by squadding on it.

Am I looking at this wrong??? I feel they are out of line in doing this there. Their son is buried at a cemetery. That is where they should be putting these kind of things.

I see the fade of marking the accident locations where people have died. I do not think this is the way to do this. Am I out of line on this??? I see this marker setting there forever. Then when the kid's parents die whomever owns the property has to keep up the maintenance on this marker.

If they want a shrine to honor their son it should be in/on their home/land. How would you handle this??? I told the Father I would have to think about it for awhile.
 
Aren't there county codes or something for preventing this. Or road or highway commission rules to prevent it? I see your point.
 
Assuming the site is on a road rite-of-way and not in a field, I would ask that they get a stainless steel pipe about 1-1/2 " diameter and one foot long with SS caps on the ends put memorial content into the pipe, a little teflon tape, and tighten it. Have them use a pincher type post hole digger and put it down at least 3 feet. (burries it so to speek).
this lets them have a "permanent" memorial, but is no longer visible. They will have the knowledge of the memorial, but you will not have to see, nor mow around it. A compromize is thus met, and feelings not hurt. It is after all not a public reminder, it is a private one. Jim
 
I wouldn't be having it. You never know what may turn off a buyer in the future, and a superstitious one won't like know what happened there. Maybe you need to take that angle with them. "I understand your loss and your desire to always remember your child, but I don't think this option is the best for everyone involved."

If they are wanting his name to be remembered why not use that money to set up a small scholarship to a Vo-Ag school close by or something? I would even offer to donate money to help the scholarship along. $100 now could help the sale of your land in years to come. If you know what kind of scholarship would be up their alley you could help steer them and make the process easier for them. You aren't a cemetery groundskeeper.
 
I agree with you. Marker should be where he is buried. Not on your property.My son died on my kitchen floor. Not putting a marker for it.I can understand the loss. But a marker on your land is wrong.
 
Kind of like small lights on stones in cemetery. There is getting to be to many of them. It will be something the highway department will have to mow around. I don't think you are looking at it wrong.
 
The cross is where the accident happened but he didn't pass away there. He died on the way to the hospital. The cross is their way of reaching out to him to somehow let him know they haven't forgotten him. Marilyn and I have been there and done that. I feel for them, their hearts are broken and their grief has obviously completely taken over their lives if they want to put in a permanent marker like that. But they have to respect your wishes to refuse the marker. I'd hate to be wearing your shoes right now but you need to tell them no. Jim
 
I"m with you- markers belong in the cemetery. What they plan sounds like another roadside hazard......dangerous to others, and certainly not necessary. Remember loved ones in their hearts, not in anchors in the roadsides. That others may hit!
 
Same thing happened on my mile maybe road. parents put cross up before you knew it kids were party-in around it owner took cross out. still party-in around. 1 call to state cop freind put an end to the party, cop told them to take there party else where. I'm sure several tickets could have been written but owner ask the cop to just get them to stop being there and to not write tickets... everything is quiet now... peace is a good thing (IN THE BOONIES)... MTP...
 
I've always wondered about the upkeep, and having to go around them when mowing. Actually, isn't this in the right of way? Anytime you start putting a footing down with a permanent anything I would think that permits are involved. Might want to check with the county/state and suggest that they deal with it for you.
 
Still can"t understand why anyone would want to mark the place a loved one was killed under such horrible circumstances....If it was that much of a necessity to mark the place of death, then hospitals, nursing homes, and anywhere else someone died should be under a mountain of monuments by now. That said, I think I would have had no problem tolerating a temporary monument for a short period of time, but 5 years is WAY too long, and that would have never gone over with me. Personally I"ve got enough problems of my own to dea, have suffered enough lost loved ones of my own, that that I don"t need to be reminded of, or bothered with someone elses day in and day out.

Ultimately, in your position, I think I"d have to "play the bad guy" and tell them straight out that they have an extremely misplaced sense of grief, or what ever you want to call it. That being the case I"d be inclined to tell them not only that they can"t build their permanent monument, but that they also need to remove the "temporary" one as well, as it had outlived it"s welcome. Further I"d recommend that they find a good therapist to help them get over their desire to immortalize the place that their son died such a horrible death as it"s simply not a healthy thing for any of them. Basically, he"s dead, he"s gone, mourn him if they must, but life goes on, and it"s time for them to move on with it.

But do it all in the nicest, most respectful way possible............
 
Sometimes the road right of way extends way beyond the edge of the road. The area with the marker may be in that space then it is belongs to the city. Stan
 
Maybe you could let them plant a tree there, possibly with a little plaque attached, if it wouldn't be in your way. They just want something permanent and visible there to mark the spot, and a tree will outlast them by a long stretch.
 
I help run the local cemetery,this is where it belongs,it will be trimmed around for ever.the kid didn"t die at your place anyway,he died enroute,on the road or in a helicopter over someone elses land...
 
Trespassing is trespassing.

As much Christian compassion as I have, I would NOT put up with that.

What happened is VERY sad/tragic, especially to the family and friends of the loved one, but is is NOT your problem, nor does it transcend your property rights.
 
To the parents their son was a million times more important than Lincoln of JFK! Actually, what makes anyone more important than anyone else, especially a politician? That being said, the parents are partly responsible for his death. I'm more than certain they would have came to pick him up. A headstone may help them to remember their son BUT it would also remind you(and your neighbors) that someone died from injuries there due to drunk driving. Maybe if you could find a nice way to say that, they would reconsider. I don't think too many people would want to be reminded of that every time they walked out the door. If there's an intersection close by, maybe they could put a nice sign there? In the city here, they put coffin signs on the light posts at intersections that have had a high rate of accidents/fatalities. It's not a fad to put up a marker where someone has died. It's to show respect and they are usually removed after a year or so.
 
I am not a fan of roadside memorials. If the kid OD'd in the bathroom, would they put a marker in front of their toilet? I certainly would not allow a stone marker on my property. And I'm equally certain your local road commission will not allow a monument on their right-of-way, given the hazard it presents to the next drunk who runs off the road at that same spot.

Many states prohibit or regulate roadside memorials; check your local laws.
 
I would go to the family and say.....Ummm...No...Sorry...aint happening.

Then if they put up a stink, then get an attorney skilled in these types of problems.

Like a fella below me said, trespassing is trespassing.

You have been nice all these years and put up with it. And there is a limit to it.
 
I understand the little lath cross and flowers for a year.

Beyond a year it gets kinda weird for me......

No way on a headstone type deal.

Just no way.

No.

Paul
 
He would.....sometimes you have to bite the bullet and stand up for yourself. It could be money well spent. Or....he could just wing it and ask the township what is done in these matters.

There are some attorneys that will give a 30 minute consultation, for a fee of $50. I did this once 20 years ago on an issue, it was worth it.
 
We had another road death out in front of our place, last April a year ago. Guy came out and put up a plastic cross, right in our lawn, without asking me. Knowing it would accelerate, not decline from there, I yanked it out when mowing, the same week he put it up. I held it for a while, to see if he was man enough to ask for it back. He didn't so I threw it away. Do I feel bad? A little, but If I had to mow around crosses from every death on that stretch of road, I'd be mowing a cemetery, and that costs extra!

Honor your dead at your home, or where they are buried. putting up these roadside memorials smacks of paganism, and/or false piety! JMHO!
 
You might come from the angle that a cold piece of stone would be a daily, constant reminder for you and your family and that you, too, need to let your "mind heal" and have a reprieve. Rather than them putting money into a stone marker, maybe you could suggest a scholarship in memory of their son to a community college or some trade school. Even if they gave $500 each year for 2 or 3 years it would help someone else, be cheaper than a stone monument and be an ongoing tribute. I would also suggest to them a flowering tree of some sort rather than the plastic crosses and flowers. Might be a win-win for both of you.
 
The answer is "NO". The nerve of some people now-a-days. Always asking for something. I know of people who make the comment, "You never know till you ask". I constantly have people asking me for money. Not $10 or $20 dollars, but hundreds & thousands. The answer is "NO". Once you start, you'll be sorry. Ask me how I know.......Nip it in the bud Now. The answer is "No". If you're a softy, you can always play the permit, higher taxes, or insurance card. Don't let it happen. Stand your ground.
 
There was a young girl, about 10 or 12yo, that was killed crossing a very buisy highway on the north end of the Twin Cities. Parents built a marker there with cross, flowers, teddy bears, etc. But they didn't stop there. They got involved politically, got the local TV stations involved and managed to get a $3 million pedestrian bridge built over the highway. When MN DOT balked and said there wasn't enough ped traffic to warrant the bridge, the TV stations made them look like bad, insensitive sobs.
So they built a bridge and named it Tegan's or Megan's bridge (whatever the name was) and have a plaque in her honor on it.
So the taxpayers were on the hook for s bridge that's never used because the parents were well connected and couldn't let their loss go.
I feel sorry for the parents but think the bridge is a travesty.
But getting back to your dilema; No way would I allow them to build a monument on my property.
I would compassionately - but unequivocally - say NO.
 
I don't think he needs an attorney.
If the parents tried to force the issue and put the monument up against his wishes they would have to hire an attorney and likely go before a judge to do it. Then Old Iowa might want an attorney. But I doubt the parents would find an attorney willing to take on a losing battle and I really doubt they'd win.
 
I remember reading about a situation in a cemetary where the parents of a 16 yr old girl had eternal lights and a large display of stuffed animals etc. and kept adding to it untill neighbors and others with family bearied there put up a fuss.Don't remember the end results but it went on for some time.I guesse people can go overboard even in a cemetary.
 
The answer is no, they should not be allowed to put a marker on your land... of any sort. I would politely tell them that and it they put one there anyway, then I would remove it.

When I was nine, my brother AND my brother-in-law were killed in a car-train accident. My other brother was nearly killed too. EVERYONE was 100 sober - my brother just did not see the train on the dark country road and drove right into it.

While it was terribly, terribly hard to deal with for my entire family, and we were all saddened almost beyond comprehension... but no memorials were ever erected any place except the cemetery.

I just don't agree with people doing this type of memorial - not ever, not even for a few weeks... not in any location.

Some people around here had there son killed in an accident. They started with a little wood cross and graduated to one welded together out of large steel pipe... I figure someday someone could hit the ditch in that area - then they in turn will be responsible for killing another person. These people live in town and they also put a graveyard marker in there lawn... not really fair to their neighbors to have that there either.

People now days have lost the ability to deal with grief. We cried a lot of tears many, many times at our family's loss. We talked with each other a lot about our loved ones. I just do not understand the need to plant a marker at accident sites.
 

I agree with everyone else. But I REALLY agree with Prawn Farmer. The real problem is to find a nice way to say no, and the best nice way is to offer a reasonable alternative. You can tell them that you know what a great young man their son was, and that he deserves (we know that this is really about the parents), and that few people will see the marker at your house. Suggest that they should take the money, and go to the school and radio station and newspaper, to help get support for a a scholarship in his honor. I be that they will love it and you could see them off with ten bucks to help get it rolling. Once they accept that $10.00 the deal is sealed. They would be ashamed to come back and try again.
 
The answer would be no. For the many reasons suggested, and there must be rules for building anything permanent. Our town has regulation as to how close to property line you can build. And you know the town, county, state will not let them put in the right of way. So I don"t think you have anything to worry about. Just say no. Jim
 
A thought had occurred to me after posting my comment.

What if EVERYONE that died on the roads and highways of the USA had a memorial at the sight where they ate the pavement. The roads would be littered with this stuff, a total mess, everywhere you would look while driving. Every mile or so, a cross there, a headstone overthere, a large bible opened up to read the 23rd Psalm, etc. It makes you wonder how long until a state or municipality will not allow roadside memorials?
 
I sure wsh that people would not put the memorials up along the road sides.there is a curve on a highly traveled county highway where someone got killed in an accident, and one day as I was heading up that strech of road the people were messing with their crosses and teddy bears and stuff with their car parked in the middle of this dangerous S curve, I nearly got into an accident because of them being parked right in the road in a highly traveled rout I thought that they were selfish I can understand greiving your loss but memorials everywhere are not appropriate. i do not drive through graveyards so quit putting memorial markers along the roads!
 
If your laws are like ours you the land owner is responsible for things in the right of way so if someone goes in the ditch and hits a tree, rock pile or in this case a marker you can be held liable for injuries, I know this is a hard position and you don't want to be thought of as inconsiderate but in todays world you need to CYA-cover your a ss.
 
I don't believe a permanent marker would be allowed here within a certain distance of center line of road, on state and or town roads, both have criteria that would negate this. Not sure about the county roads, likely the same. On town roads, mailbox posts, (per U.S. Post Office specifications) directly conflicts with town specifications in their code, which states you are not supposed to have the post that close to the road. I'd have to read it again, but I think one would have to have some cantilevered arrangement to comply, no one enforces it anyway, and I believe its mostly for snow removal.

A good friend's dad, (who was also a long time good friend) decided for some reason, (we still suspect medication was part of it) decided one saturday morning in late '09 to go out behind part of one barn, in front of where the tractor is parked in the attached barn behind it and check out with a 16 ga shotgun. For whatever reason, a small patio stone or paver was placed where his feet were. We go by there often, try not to drive over it with the tractor, and or because its a hidden spot, please don't relieve yourself on it LOL ! He probably did hundreds of times right there anyway LOL ! I find myself clearing dirt and sod away from that marker, it was almost covered up this year.

I am still unsure what the significance of it is, other than it marks the exact spot where he passed away and that it meant something to remember that. No you would not erect a headstone there, that is for burial, and it would block his tractor from the barn, but we center the marker under the tractor while driving it in/out every time we park the tractor in there, you always think of him when you get on or off the tractor. it does not seem like a bad thing, its informal, low profile but you know its there. Maybe a small marker kind of paver, inscribed would be ok, takes 20 seconds with a string trimmer to keep it cleared off, If were me, I'd be ok with that, would maintain it as said above, being no trouble or heavy maintenance, but would be quite frank to the parents, stating that it this is ok, but its still non permanent, and its clearly my right to remove it at any time, additionally stating that nothing else is to be added to it ever. I can also understand flat out no, I don't want any of it on my land, and that I do not want to set a precedent here or elsewhere. Purely up to you, the locations rules, codes and so on as related to the road or building code.

Its perplexing as I don't think many of us would not want to honor any decent person when deceased, just don't force that upon someone.

We often go to the nearby cemetery for a toast at the headstone, or are asked to after a family dinner, in remembrance of the fellow I spoke of above, some of the family find it excess, as apparently do the grand kids, who's father says it kind of freaks them out a little, so everyone has a different take or way of dealing with this, its nice to be sensitive to that, but again, don't force it upon me or anyone else, respect the wishes of others, which these people should do in your case, regardless of what you decide.
 
It's a touchy subject. Like walking on egg shells. There was a guy killed right in front of my house. It was just a little later in the year than this. His wife (who was in the process of divorcing him) wanted to put up some monument. I told her it was alright,but it would have to come down after Christmas. I told her I didn't want my kids to have to look at something every day to remind them that somebody was killed right there in our front yard. I guess it worked. She never did even put anything up and she's still speaking to us.
 
I agree with you, I wouldent want that in my front yard either. I'm sure the people are overly emotional from the loss, but that's not the place for something like that. That being said, last week here in NY I read in the newspaper were the troopers escorted a family, with lights flashing to a crash site on the Adirondack Northway, a pretty busy highway. They put some markers on the trees of there jersey numbers or something. Well the trooper warned people not to stop at the site or even slow down. The mother also posted on face book pleading people not to stop. I guess the school principal told the students to put up a memorial at the school. I don't agree that they should have put anything on the side of a highway like this one. Just my opinion though.
 
My vote goes with RRLund and Prawn Farmer.

I would say the permanent marker would be a little to morbid for all your friends and visitors that come to your house. Common around mid-Michigan is a nice white cross made out of wood, lettered wit the name.

Starting a scholarship at the local school level would be a great way to remember him.

Now... figuring out to politely tell them no.

Rick
 
Not sure how I would handle that issue. A lot of Western states put up crosses or some sort of small post marker at a fatal accident site as a reminder to be safe and sober.
 
A suggestion that may help. Instead of having a headstone located on your property, give the parents a little soil from the site so they can take it to their property to use for a perminate marker. every one would be satisfied all around. Like I said, It's only a suggestion. Good luck. Regards Lou.
 
I can understand the parents grief. But I wouldn't allow a permanent marker like they want on my property.
I like the scholarship idea. It wouldn't just be a way for the parents to remember their son, it would be helping someone else as well.
An inscribed paver like Billy NY mentioned could be a good compromise but the current or future land owner should retain the right to remove it an any time for whatever reason they wish.

Temporary crosses or wreaths are often put up at fatal accident sites around here. I can think of two that have been there for years. One is on a country road where a car load of kids on their way home from school went off the road and hit a culvert killing 2 of the 4 occupants of the car. There are two crosses right at the end of the culvert.
The other location id beside a US highway. I'm sure the memorial violates the rules but no one has tried to remove it. That ones been there 16 years. I don't think it's so much for the family that lost their kids (the family lives 60 miles away) as it is a reminder to the family of the (local) drunk driver that ran a stop sign and killed two sisters.
 
Last year there was a young man trying to run from the police on a crotch rocket . He lost it ,dead on the road . Of course family blamed police for chasing him. Crying about leaving a widow and son . They then build a huge ,,6 ft cross right on side of the road on a very busy place , right across from a Menards . Buddy is head of county dot ,,he took it down , left a note explaining laws on roadside memorials, and how they are not allowed on public right away , but if they got permission from landowner they could put one up other side of ditch. Nope ,,not good enough ,,they cried and hollered , went on the news and hollared some more. Got people blaming the police, DOT ,everyone except the idiot that ran from police instead of pulling over . People were stopping on roadside causing conditions for more accidents , buddy tore it down couple more times. Think they finally moved it across ditch .
 
I would say for the family to keep it to the cemetery, the temp is a fade as you say. I remember when I was a kid in Iowa the state erected a white marker with a cross on it at every fatal accident site along a state highway. It was not long when there could be a dozen at a bad intersection or such. I do not remember when they discontinued this practice, maybe in the 50's.
 
I love that idea and you both get something in turn for it. I planted some Giant Sequias on my land a monument that will be there for thousands of years.
Walt
 
I didn't read all the posts so this may have already been suggested.

If it isn't gonna be in the way suggest a tree instead. As long as it is JUST a tree (no plaque or such) it would help the family, you get a tree in your yard. You can attach whatever significance to the tree you want. Only issue here is the tree needs to stay and live. Just a thought.

I agree that a stone marker is a definate NO. Just needs to be handled with tact. The way you describe the family I hope they didn't put money down before asking.

JM2CW

jt
 
I see these "Shrines" all over in western
Wisconsin. Were I the County Roadside Mower
driver, I"d shred them all, and all of their
trashy plastic flowers too !
 
Just like others have said "NO". No explanation needed.

I don't even like the temporary crosses I see along the road. They do not belong at the side of a road. That is what a cemetery is for.

When I'm gone, my family has agreed to let me be buried in a wooden box (no concrete vault), no embalming,with no headstone or other marker. In other words, a natural burial, not a commercial one.
 
No!! If something is erected along the highway everone tries to read them and while they are doing that they cause a wreck.
 
I wouldn't particularly want a monument there either... but in reality, if it's on the limits of a public right of way such as it is around here, there isn't a thing you can do about it unless the owner of the right of way refuses to allow it to be placed there. If it's on YOUR land, then I guess you can tell them to do whatever you like... In that case I don't think I'd allow a stone. The little wooden crosses that they place around here are sufficient and eventually they fade away as they ought to...

Rod
 
A lawyer writes a simple letter, $500 is about the norm. A consultation is just information but if you need anything done, then you pay. Nobody can force you to put a headstone on your property.
 
We have a lot of them around here too, but I"ve never understood why people put them up.

I"ve always made it VERY clear to my family, that, if I was to die in a highway accident, please don"t put up some kind of marker or memorial at the spot where the WORST thing in my life happened to me!

Heck, I wouldn"t be there anyway....
 
Only thing I get like that is political and maybe realty signs which I promptly remove and bring in the house for sign painting practice boards. No way no how. I live on a curve and have had plenty of accys but thankfully no fatalities. If you run up on my lawn the only thiing you get is buying me new shrubs and your car parts tossed in the road.
 
It would have been an issue with me from the get go. These markers are dangerous and inapropriate no matter where they are. That"s what cemetery"s are for. Folks don"t need a reminder where someone dies just because it makes someone who"s lost feel a little better. Can you imagine how morbid hospitals and nursing homes would be if everyone did this?
 
I agree with you on not wanting that on my property. In most counties there are restrictions on any roadway signage or marker. If you are on a state highway any permanent sign must be preapproved by the state. Check with your county supervisor and see where they stand. Maybe you can be a politician and pass the buck as to the marker not being legal. Good Luck
 
Never understood memorials like that. It's not like their soul is there. It's just a place they died. Their soul is in the appropriate place as determined by GOD and the body is at the cemetery or wherever they spread the ashes. I don't have an issue with a temporary marker just to say someone died here be careful yourself, but nothing more than that.
 
Respectfully decline. It"s your property. If it was me I would express sympathy and condolences but just say I really don"t want a monument in my front yard. I can not begin to understand your loss and Im sorry but no. Leave it at that.
 
In our county any structure has to be 30 feet back from the road center line (except a mail box). I would guess your governing authority has some similar regulation for road right of ways. Or this could be a utility right of way and I presume they would not want such a memorial in their right of way either.

I'd tell them no, in the kindest way possible. I see these crosses all over the place on our rural roads, but they seem to disappear after a time. These folks are wallowing in their grief. My aunt and uncle lost their 18 y.o. daughter (adopted) to a rare heart condition. They are still grieving 20 yrs. later.

Found out the 30' deal I mentioned above because the county engineer stopped by when my neighbor was building her fence along my driveway on the property line. He measured the first post at something like 29 feet back from center line. I told him I appreciate him stopping, but it wasn't my fence and I had nothing to do with it. He went on and on about it and I had to tell him several times, IT'S NOT MY FENCE! He finally got the message and left.
 
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