OT local TV channels

Trying to set up a newer television in my shop and seem to remember that you need some sort of converter box since everything is digital. Last I had a TV set up it was on a dish, this shop I would just like to get the basic local 4-5-7-9 etc.
What is the converter called? do they sell them at a place like radio shack?
I have a pretty new rooftop antenna with a rotator, any hints or suggestions.
Thanks

If the TV was made within the last couple of years it should already have the converter built in. If it's older than that then you will probably need to purchase a converter, & yes, Radio Shack should have them in stock.

Yeah...analog TV is no longer broadcast over the airwaves. So you need a DTV signal converter box. The ones I've seen are cheap POS type affairs, and your POS remote that comes with it controls the channels on the converter box. So once you get it working, you NEVER change channels again on the TV itself. BUT if your TV still needs a regular remote for such things as volume and on/off, you end up having to keep track of TWO remotes.

I was "blessed" by my old TV going out a couple months before analog TV went dark, so I bought a digital set when I replaced it...so I've never had to mess with the converter box on my own TV. But I've had to try to keep my 81-year-old mother straightened out on hers, so when I say that most of these converters are in the POS category, I'm actually being charitable about it.

When the big change happened, everyone from Radio Shack to Rite Aid, CVS, and Walgreens sold those converter boxes...and none of 'em impressed me with their quality.

I"ve got mine hooked up to digital, took several different antanneas from Walmart, finally got one that does good. But I HAD TO elevate it, get it set just right, carefully move it around. MIne is very touchy, but it will drag in good signals. Other thing I recommend, do you have access to a 15 year old kid?? They will understand how to make it work. I have wound up with two clickers, don"t have any idea wny, but my younger son just rolls his eyes and says "Here Pop, just click "em here....." Works great .

Are you sure you need a converter? If your set has a wide format, it's probably digital-ready. And even if it isn't, for a little bit more than the cost of a converter you can buy a brand new TV, which will be mo' betta.

Good advice from Mark.

No converter needed if it's a newer TV, i.e. newer then 2007. Antennas are just the same as they were before digital. Main difference is where the signals may be coming from. Many TV companies changed the locations of their transmistter towers when they went to digital. Some also moved from VHF to UHF. Also - channel numbers can now be "fake" and not the real channel you need to tune into. Called "virtual"channels. Several companies are still transmitting in analog. Only the big ones were forced to change. I still get two analog channels here in N& and get four in northern Michigan (two from Canada).

Like another posted said - the cost of a $45 converter is hardly worth it when you can buy an LCD/LED digital 19" TV for $79-99 on sale.

Just a couple of comments here as I had to assist cousin at the farm with "the change". While previous antenna should work there is no frequency drift in digital so if any of the elements are missing you will have issues. Also it has to pointed directly at the transmitter tower.

DTV in my area is the pits. When the wind blows or a car goes past and sometimes it seems if someone 200-300 miles away sneezes the picture goes bonkers. We needed a new antena as well as the convertor box since the rabbit ears would only get 2 stations and 1 of them was PBS. Ended up making my own using coathangers I seen made on that PBS station. Works mostly good as now get 17 stations however still goes bonkers when a car, wind, sneezers are happening

Dr. Walt is correct, Walmart or radio shack has them. And there called digital converters.

One thing I noticed with digital that I should have known. With Amplitude modulated TV, like we used to have, when the signal gets weak, you have a thing called signal to noise ratio and the noise level starts getting up to where the signal level is. Noise is SNOW and with my fringe reception it was a real problem with reception.

Now, with digital, there is no (noticeable) noise and it is really nice with the same antenna.

Mark

Like others have said, older TV's need a converter, newer ones don't. It was only a few years ago that the FCC mandated all tv's have a digital tuner, but digital tuners were available long before that. Tuners in early digital tv's were not very good, and many converter boxes have better tuners than early-gen. digital tv's. Many converter boxes had other quality issues, though.

Analog TV stations are still on the air in many markets in the USA. All are low-power, some are translators/repeaters of full power stations for rural, isolated, or terrain-challenged areas. Some are in the process of converting to digital (or coming up with the money to do so), and some never will, and will eventually go off the air. Last I read the FCC proposed a date in 2015 for the final, final end of all analog tv broadcasts in the USA. There may not be a thing you want to watch on any analog station still broadcasting in the USA, but they still exist.

The same "blocks" of frequency are used for digital broadcasting that were used for analog. Channels 52 and up are gone forever. 2-51 are left--2-6 are low-band VHF, 7-13 are high-band VHF, and 14-51 are UHF--and nobody in the USA uses 37 for tv. FCC wants channel 51 back now too, because they fudged-up and didn't create a guard band between tv and the services they sold channels 52 and up off to, and, according to the FCC, channel 51 interferes, or will potentially interfere with those services in the markets where channel 51 is used (they're not worried about the other services interfering with tv).

Be aware of "virtual channels" and actual channels. When stations had a digital signal and an analog signal at the same time, they both couldn't operate on the same frequencies. Some stations have returned to their original allotment they had for analog, some didn't, and some couldn't, because of 52 and up being deleted, and some still are trying to move around. Some stations that had VHF allotments before are UHF now and vice-versa. A station that still calls itself "4" could be, and likely is elsewhere. Any station that uses 52 and up as it's number is guaranteed to be elsewhere. Different antennas are needed for different frequencies.

Good websites:

RabbitEars: http://rabbitears.info/ Lots of good information. Longley-Rice maps provide good estimates of how far signal can travel based on terrain, etc.. Great information on digital subchannels and the actual/virtual channels. Information on stations that have went off the air/shouldn't still be broadcasting (deleted allotments) as well.

TvFool: http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29 Good info here as well.

AVS Forum: http://www.avsforum.com/f/ As YT is to old tractors, AVS is to TV's and electronics.

AG

Don't waste your time with a converter box,buy a new digital tv. Televisions are cheap now,especially the smaller ones.With the converter box it takes two remotes to operate the TV.One for the converter box and one for the tv.

One thing, the rotor becomes kinda difficult to use - most digital TVs any more you need to scan for channels. You don't get to add more new channels, you start from scratch and scan for what is out there.

So, rotate the antenna, and you need to scan - forgetting the channels you were watching.

Any time you rotate, you start from square one, with a lengthy scan needed.

That is silly.

I think one or 2 brands allow you to add channels, without wiping out the already learned channels?

Paul

We moved from one area that had poor DTV reception,
to an area that has NONE. Can't afford Satelitte,
and have weak DSL.....Progress.....

There should be a lot of used digital converter boxes around for next to nothing. As more and more people upgrade to new TV's they are not needed. I am keeping one to use in my fishouse but I still get two good channels on analog so I haven't had to use it yet.

We sell antennas where I work. This big change was a boon for antenna sales. I marvel at the number of people who would come in and want a new "digital" antenna. The brand we sell didn't change anything except for the part numbers. (Changed the two letter prefix from CA to HD)

When that customer would come in I asked them first if they had actually tried using what they already have. Many said no, they assumed they had to change since the channels all changed. Yes, I lost a few sales that way, and I am not upset about it. In our area a wire stuck out the back of the TV will pick up most of the stations. An outside antenna will pick up everything within 50 miles around here. After that it gets tricky.

But, I am not addressing the question of the post. The converter boxes were meant to be temporary until all of the old analog TV's die off. It's getting to that point now. In other words, those boxes weren't meant to last more than a few years anyway. I'm still watching an almost 20 year old Toshiba 27" that has a good picture. I don't have to see 3D to enjoy good programming (a topic for another rant somewhere). I bought the Zenith converter boxes because they had some extra features like a zoom and other things that made them kinda nice. The analog stations that are left will soon have to go off the air or go digital as well. As someone said, they are mostly local and low power on low budgets anyway. Channels 2-6 don't exist any more. Many stations retained their old logos, keeping the channel number (example: Channel 5 has been our PBS station, now transmitting on channel 39), but most with few exceptions are actually transmitting on UHF frequencies now. We have one VHF station here that kept the same channel.

A good rule of thumb to determine if your TV is analog only or digital capable is to look at the size of it. If it still has the big hump in the back it has a picture tube and is likely analog only. There were a few made in the transition that were digital capable but not many and not for long. If yours is thin, like a modern computer monitor, it's going to be digital capable and you won't need the converter box.

Walmart still has'em.I bought 8 of 'em for the changeover. Six have crapped out!!!!!! All RCAs.

My Sansui and Sceptre TVs save the channels already registered when a rescan is done. Our RCA does not. They all allow adding channels manually.

Wow, thanks for all the info. I'm cutting wood today and won't get to mess with it till later.

One more time YT Mag proves to be an incredible source of information.

(quoted from post at 15:35:53 10/27/13)

Channels 2-6 don't exist any more.

Click to expand...

Incorrect. Although sparsely populated today compared to analog's time, there are many digital stations still broadcasting on real channels 2-6/Low band VHF.

According to RabbitEars:

http://rabbitears.info/statistics.php

There are 39 full-power digital stations in the US still broadcasting on channels 2-6, and 165 low power digital stations broadcasting on those allotments. This doesn't count LPTV analog stations, either. Most broadcasters have stayed away from digital broadcasting on channels 2-6 (and even 7-13) because of noise issues interfering with signal reception on the viewer's end. For example, with each lightning strike, you used to get a crack of static on the tv with analog, now you can loose the signal for several seconds with digital. Electrical appliances can cause major issues, too. There's all kinds of issues with people trying to use indoor antennas for VHF, especially low band and getting nowhere. Channels 2-6 also are effected more by certain atmospheric conditions.

Fun fact: channel 6 analog has long been popular for it's "Franken-FM" characteristic of the audio broadcasting at 87.75 on the FM dial. Several channel 6 analog LPTV stations are holding out until the very end, or as long as reasonably possible to convert to digital because, although this could be made to continue with the digital tv conversion, the FCC won't let them and has closed that loophole. These stations probably have as many or more radio listeners as they do tv viewers.

AG

Radio Shack has the converter boxes for $59.95. Add another $59.95 to it and you can buy a small digital tv. We bought four converter boxes, "back when", and three have already bit the dust. I know they were only intended to fill the gap until the older tvs expired, but they should hold up better than that! I had just bought a new tv a few months before the change went into effect. It should be good for another two or three years.

Those converter boxes are junk. I would buy a new low end tv instead.

Unless you already have a converter box, I would just buy a new TV with a built in HDTV tuner. They are much easier to connect and use. The new TV's have multiple connectors including HDMI. Samsung an LG are two brands that worked well for me and they are widely available. Look at www.Amazon.com for info.

Many new computer monitors are available with a built in HDTV tuner for the same price as a regular monitor or TV.

Well, I stand corrected, to a point. The power output on these stations has been severely limited and the FCC has mandated that ALL analog TV transmissions cease by September 1, 2015. I do realize that the original rebanding and digital transition dates have been changed several times, so this date may or may not be set in stone.

That being said, I appreciate the correction. But, eventually, 2-6 will be legislated away.

(quoted from post at 18:37:51 10/27/13) Well, I stand corrected, to a point. The power output on these stations has been severely limited and the FCC has mandated that ALL analog TV transmissions cease by September 1, 2015. I do realize that the original rebanding and digital transition dates have been changed several times, so this date may or may not be set in stone.

That being said, I appreciate the correction. But, eventually, 2-6 will be legislated away.

Click to expand...

I have found nothing about 2-6 going away anywhere. If you have a source on this, please post it.

The FCC has proposed to remove everything above channel 30, and has other proposals to chop off UHF frequencies and repurpose them elsewhere, but nobody wants VHF, especially Low-band, with the exception of those who want 6 or 12 MHz added to the bottom end of the FM radio allotments. If the FCC chops UHF down any further, someone's heading to VHF in many markets. Many low power stations would almost certainly end up there.

In many markets stations would love to pack up and move from VHF to UHF, but there's no room for that to happen. In Chicagoland, WLS moved out, from 7 to 44 well after the transition date and after trying to up the power on 7, WBBM's trying to get a low-powered UHF translator for city residents, as 12 isn't cutting it, and there's no room left for another full-power UHF station in that area without causing interference to others. All of the other full-powered VHF analog stations got a UHF digital allotment, and stayed there. One low powered digital station on real channel 4 asked to use triple the juice because of reception issues, and got permission to.

At one time, an engineer from WPVI (ABC 6, Philly) bragged something like VHF was great, and he wasn't running a transmitter, he was running a hair dryer. With large increases in output power (they ain't running a hair dryer no more, maybe a salon), they've still had serious reception problems reported, and they really have nowhere to go, either to another allotment, or by upping the juice without interfering with someone else, so they're stuck with 6.

There has been a mass-exodus of sorts from VHF with good reason, but VHF, low- or high-band isn't going away from the US television spectrum allotments any time soon.

AG

Unless all signals and transmitters are all on the same town in the same direction from your antenna . The system needs a rotor. I"m not certain why some people are so cheap or so proud to go outside and manually turn the antenna.
The antenna needs to be a channel 7-51 extreme high gain. Eliminating channels 2-6 rids much of the ice load, wind load and interference from FM broad cast radio. Removal of channels 52-83 reduces wind and ice loading.
Need a decent amp to overcome losses that even RG-6 cable has. RG-59 , the cheap junk at Walmart is best left on the shelf.

In addition to what others have discussed, if reception is poor, buy a flat indoor tv antenna, like radio shak's cat #1500080. It is a powered antenna, and I get all but 4 PBS stations, without moving it much. They also make a more expensive one that can be mounted outdoors, and Walmart has similar powered antennas, about the same $50.

A converter box is $50 and mine never worked worth a darn. Bought a new HDTV for the shop for $125, Works great, great picture. But only works if you have a decent signal. No signal, no TV will work.