Bryan inIowa
Member
Got insulation down . Tubing laid out and manifold set. Need to get expansion strips along walls and then call concrete guy.
- Thread starter Bryan inIowa
- Start date
Larry Loose
New User
I would never put ins under floor heat you lose your heat sink the best way is foot of sand and bury pipes
Bryan, I see you have several separate loops, that's the way to go.
One thing I learned is to not make a long loop like the one at the
top of the second photo looks like it might be.
Where the water goes into the loop it's hot, then as it travels back
and forth through all the zig-zags it cools. By the time it gets to the
end of that loop it is cold and you have a cold spot in the floor/room.
If you want one portion a little cooler, that will work out fine.
I have 6 separate loops in my 32x32. Couldn't be more even heat.
No fans, no noise, no dust blowing around. Awesome!
One thing I learned is to not make a long loop like the one at the
top of the second photo looks like it might be.
Where the water goes into the loop it's hot, then as it travels back
and forth through all the zig-zags it cools. By the time it gets to the
end of that loop it is cold and you have a cold spot in the floor/room.
If you want one portion a little cooler, that will work out fine.
I have 6 separate loops in my 32x32. Couldn't be more even heat.
No fans, no noise, no dust blowing around. Awesome!
Bryan inIowa
Member
The loops are 250 ft each. The one with wider spacing will be a
cooler area and if I remember the stairway will be going other.
Pretty fancy manifold set up. It has flow meters and controls for
each loop. Looking forward to getting it fired up.
cooler area and if I remember the stairway will be going other.
Pretty fancy manifold set up. It has flow meters and controls for
each loop. Looking forward to getting it fired up.
Ray Weidner
New User
Unless you want to heat the 50 degree ground and not the concrete on the floor you need the insulation. The only time you need the heat sink is if you want to maintain less then 50 degrees in the building. I know my shop is only heated to 40 so the 50 floor is a heat source that is why I did not install insulation in the floor. In three years I burned less then 150 gallons of oil total it is 3000 square ft building well insulated.
I have this in my house for several years, you just cant beat this type of heat. I will put it in my garage when I build it too.
Your loops are OK but are not optimal for hot water heat, they should start around the perimeter and spiral to the center, make a 180 and spiral back to the starting point, this gives the most even heat.
tube spacing can be from 6 to 12 inches depending on how much heat you need ..tubing is cheap so I lean towards the 6 inch spacing ..after all, this is a one time project
zones are important so you can heat only areas that are being used
Your loops are OK but are not optimal for hot water heat, they should start around the perimeter and spiral to the center, make a 180 and spiral back to the starting point, this gives the most even heat.
tube spacing can be from 6 to 12 inches depending on how much heat you need ..tubing is cheap so I lean towards the 6 inch spacing ..after all, this is a one time project
zones are important so you can heat only areas that are being used
Jaden
Member
- Location
- Eastern Nebraska
I put in a similar system a few years ago. Advice I got was to put about 30 PSI air on the system and check for leaks. Leave the system pressurized during concrete pour. If a pipe gets damaged, you will see bubbles coming up out of the concrete. Quickly uncover the area and install a PEX splicer. (Have some ready, just in case.)
I did the new house basement in "97 like that.....I put concrete wire over the insulation...attached tubing to the wire, following the wires...wire was 6x6 so I can measure most anywhere and get a real good estimate of where the tubing is, if I need to drill or nail into the floor. I saved the pix and have reference points to go by.
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
I don't understand why you'd rather try to heat the dirt under your house or shop rather than the building itself. Only a cheapskate would try to save money by leaving out the insulation under a heated floor. Kind of like trying to heat your house with all the windows wide open.
Larry Loose
New User
iam not being a cheapskate by not using ins on the floor its experience.the only ins we use is 2 ft vertical around the permiter heat rises. its much easier with ins you have something to attach pipe to but energy costs will be higher
Mark, Larry might not have told you the whole story. I heat with an inside the house wood boiler so I can,t store and circulate 1,000 gallons of hot water.
I have a bathroom in the basement that has no outside walls. When I built the house I dug down about a foot from the tub to the door and from the vanity to the wall. I have a seven foot by three foot area dug down one foot. I put two inches of insulation on the bottom and two inches around the perimeter. Next I put six inches of sand over the insulation. That bathroom is the last room of the single zone basement. The return line after the baseboard heater in the bathroom makes two runs the seven foot direction and back to the boiler. 3/4 copper was used for the underground runs. Added six more inches of sand before the floor was poured.
Just say zero degrees outside we go to bed with a warm house and a hot boiler. The fire in the boiler dies out in two hours. The next morning the house may be 60 to 65 degrees. Inside that bathroom after the door was closed all night the room is 70 degrees and the floor is still warm.
I got the idea when I was told of a guy that did that with electric heat. He dug down three feet put in the insulation then heat tapes then sand and he buys the electricity on the off peak time.
I like my system, each and all to their own.
I have a bathroom in the basement that has no outside walls. When I built the house I dug down about a foot from the tub to the door and from the vanity to the wall. I have a seven foot by three foot area dug down one foot. I put two inches of insulation on the bottom and two inches around the perimeter. Next I put six inches of sand over the insulation. That bathroom is the last room of the single zone basement. The return line after the baseboard heater in the bathroom makes two runs the seven foot direction and back to the boiler. 3/4 copper was used for the underground runs. Added six more inches of sand before the floor was poured.
Just say zero degrees outside we go to bed with a warm house and a hot boiler. The fire in the boiler dies out in two hours. The next morning the house may be 60 to 65 degrees. Inside that bathroom after the door was closed all night the room is 70 degrees and the floor is still warm.
I got the idea when I was told of a guy that did that with electric heat. He dug down three feet put in the insulation then heat tapes then sand and he buys the electricity on the off peak time.
I like my system, each and all to their own.
Indiana Ken
Well-known Member
The old saying "heat rises" is only true if you are heating air, and then, it is the heated air that is rising. Heated air is less dense (lighter) and floats on the cooler air that surrounds it.
When one burys hot water pipes in sand/soil/concrete, the heat is carried by conduction in all directions equally. Deleting the insulation below can provide a larger heat sink. However, if the heat sink temperature is greater than the soil temperature the heat loss downward is not recovered.
Respectfully, Ken
Bryan inIowa
Member
The loops are 250 ft each. The one with wider spacing will be a
cooler area and if I remember the stairway will be going other.
Pretty fancy manifold set up. It has flow meters and controls for
each loop. Looking forward to getting it fired up.
cooler area and if I remember the stairway will be going other.
Pretty fancy manifold set up. It has flow meters and controls for
each loop. Looking forward to getting it fired up.
Blackhole49
Well-known Member
- Location
- White Lake MI
Post lift in a basement?
A great source of info about this kind of heat is at heatinghelp.com. Dan Holohan has written a book for the layman about infloor heat that can keep you out of trouble and guide the average person. Its the best heat available, by far the most comfortable and often times uses the least fuel.
Larry Loose
New User
many good points. I heat 11000sq ft to 50 for $300 month neighbor heats 12000 to 50 putting his pipes on ins because cheapest plumbing bid wouldn"t put them in sand his bill is $700 he wants me to help him pay for natural gas line I say iam happy where iam at
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
So, if insulation was free, you still wouldn't insulate under a slab?
You said "heat sink" but I think you really meant "thermal mass". But in your case heat sink is the the correct term, because the earth is an infinite heat sink with an insatiable appetite for heat. You wouldn't try to heat your house with the windows wide open; trying to heat an uninsulated floor is no different.
It's good that you insulated the perimeter, since that's where the majority of your heat loss is. And if the ground under your building is reasonable dry you won't get so much heat loss, but it's silly to think that you'll lose less heat through an uninsulated floor than through an insulated one. Heat transfer simply doesn't work that way.
You said "heat sink" but I think you really meant "thermal mass". But in your case heat sink is the the correct term, because the earth is an infinite heat sink with an insatiable appetite for heat. You wouldn't try to heat your house with the windows wide open; trying to heat an uninsulated floor is no different.
It's good that you insulated the perimeter, since that's where the majority of your heat loss is. And if the ground under your building is reasonable dry you won't get so much heat loss, but it's silly to think that you'll lose less heat through an uninsulated floor than through an insulated one. Heat transfer simply doesn't work that way.
jared in wi
Member
Looks good, I am sure you are glad the end is in site. Just curious as to what you are going to do with all your spare time?
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