Engine knock, Ford 660

davisford · Sep 22, 2013

I have had my ford 660 tractor for about a month, everything working great UNTIL this weekend. I was driving and heard a loud engine knock. I turned engine off. Checked oil, all looked good. I removed the belt for the water pump/ governor/ crank. Re-started engine and noise still there and just as bad.

I am feeling I either spun a bearing or cylinder sleeve came loose. I HOP NOT THOUGH

2 questions

1- What else can it be, where do I start looking
2- If I need to rebuild any good links for kits or tutorials?

Thanks in advance

pete 23 · Sep 22, 2013

First thing I do when looking for a knock is take off the oil filter. If you find bearing material you immediately know you have major problems, and in what general area it is. If you do not find any metal, then you start checking other things like missing screws if carbureted engine, or valve train failures like valve seats or gears etc.

old · Sep 22, 2013

What type of oil pressure does it have??? Does the oil on the dip stick look like it has sliver shine to it?? Is the knock forward or back on the engine?? Crank pulley loose can cause it and many other things

davisford · Sep 22, 2013

Oil gauge is showing nothing. But I am not 100%, that it was operating, I have only used in half dozen times. (I would assume it was working but not sure)

Oil on dipstick does not have silver sheen or anything on it.

Can't tell where it is coming from front or rear, just real loud. I didn't want to leave it running to check.

I will drop the oil drain and pan next time i am out at acreage. Maybe I'll pull valve cover off too.

Thanks

davisford · Sep 22, 2013

I have read a few reports that a loose gear on the hyd pump can sound similar. How would I check that too? (in case I don't find metal in oil pan or anything obvious under valve cover.

JD Seller · Sep 22, 2013

I would drop the oil pan. You can see real fast if something is out of sink there. These little Ford engines are not too expensive to overhaul if you do not have to have the crankshaft ground.

When they where being used for serious farm work it was not uncommon for them to be overhauled every 3-4 years. The rod and main bearings would be worn pretty bad.

Used to see a fair number of them with holes in the blocks because of worn rod bearings. They would get worn where the rod was lose. The the stead slap when running would pop the rod cap off and then the next turn the crank would knock the rod through the side of the block. Many times you could patch the block and rebuild it and drive on. The hole many times was not in the water or oil half of the block or even in any of the main webs if it.

SO I would drop the pan and check the rods and main bearings out first. The reason being that running it even just few more minute may ruin the crankshaft or block. Right now you may be able to just do an in frame overhaul if the crankshaft is not worn too bad. This can be done just about anywhere.

Years ago my Neighbors farmed with six of the Ford 4 cylinder gas tractors. They would do their own overhauls in a dirt floored shed. They had a stove in there and would work on them in the winter. One spring they had one go down unexpectedly in the spring. They did an in frame overhaul in under 6 hours with two of them working. That was new sleaves, pistons, rods and main bearings, and the valves/guides replaced.

So check it out. Even with just modest mechanical abilities you can overhaul one.

Ultradog MN · Sep 23, 2013

Good post JD.
They are pretty simple engines.
I can't imagine someone not knowing if they have oil pressure or not but to each his own I guess.

Ultradog MN · Sep 23, 2013

No sense pulling the valve cover. At least not at this point. As JD Seller says pull the pan off and start pulling rod caps off one at a time.
Look at your bearing shells for evidence of copper color. If you find any that is probably the rod that is knocking.

showcrop · Sep 23, 2013

(quoted from post at 20:55:17 09/22/13) I would drop the oil pan. You can see real fast if something is out of sink there. These little Ford engines are not too expensive to overhaul if you do not have to have the crankshaft ground.

When they where being used for serious farm work it was not uncommon for them to be overhauled every 3-4 years. The rod and main bearings would be worn pretty bad.

Used to see a fair number of them with holes in the blocks because of worn rod bearings. They would get worn where the rod was lose. The the stead slap when running would pop the rod cap off and then the next turn the crank would knock the rod through the side of the block. Many times you could patch the block and rebuild it and drive on. The hole many times was not in the water or oil half of the block or even in any of the main webs if it.

SO I would drop the pan and check the rods and main bearings out first. The reason being that running it even just few more minute may ruin the crankshaft or block. Right now you may be able to just do an in frame overhaul if the crankshaft is not worn too bad. This can be done just about anywhere.

Years ago my Neighbors farmed with six of the Ford 4 cylinder gas tractors. They would do their own overhauls in a dirt floored shed. They had a stove in there and would work on them in the winter. One spring they had one go down unexpectedly in the spring. They did an in frame overhaul in under 6 hours with two of them working. That was new sleaves, pistons, rods and main bearings, and the valves/guides replaced.

So check it out. Even with just modest mechanical abilities you can overhaul one.

Not long before he passed on about ten years ago, my uncle told me that he rebuilt his 860 motor three times. It was the main horse for about 14 years. Every autumn he would chop corn with it. Hour after hour, day after day, week after week in first gear. Then, when he was in FL my cousin bought a 5000 at auction. My uncle was upset at first, but he was smiling when chopping corn went twice as fast.

Lyndon - AB · Sep 23, 2013

(quoted from post at 04:02:50 09/23/13) No sense pulling the valve cover. At least not at this point. As JD Seller says pull the pan off and start pulling rod caps off one at a time.
Look at your bearing shells for evidence of copper color. If you find any that is probably the rod that is knocking.

Never hurts to pull the valve cover. Easy place to start. I had an 8.3 cummins in a tigercat feller buncher that spit out an exhaust valve bridge. Sounded like it was going to explode, it was hammering so loud.

mudcreek183 · Sep 23, 2013

Check the hyd pump we had 961 that did the same thing it was the pump.

davisford · Sep 23, 2013

How do you check the hyd pump?

Bill Radford · Sep 24, 2013

My 641 recently developed a knock.Compression and oil pressure were good.Nothing strange was in oil pan. To make a long story short, it was the cam gear loose on the camshaft. A new Woodruff key, cam gear and crank gear made her like new. Also rebuilt the hyd pump.
Main thing I did was get a seasoned engine mechanic to listen to the machine and review what I had found. He pointed me in the right direction and after that it was pretty easy actually doing the work.
One hint: does knock go away briefy while lift is being raised? If so, the pump is being loaded and that suggests either pump gear or camshaft gear problems.Fair amount of work, but do-able.

davisford · Oct 12, 2013

OK I pulled off the oil pan.

The connecting rod for the piston (closest to drivers seat) was actually off! One of the bolts was loose in the oil pan, it was really bent, the nut must have worked loose. The other bolt was still attached, but loose and also bent a bit. The bearing material was broken up and in the pan too.
The attachment on the connecting rod (still attached to the piston) looked messed up too.

The crankshaft looked good

I can move the piston manually, so it is not seized.

How do I pull the piston so I can swap out the connecting rod?

I am thinking of pulling the piston, changin out the connecting rod and seeing if it works? I know it is more a band aid, but if i can get away with that until spring that would be awesome!

Thanks

showcrop · Oct 12, 2013

Easy just pull the head and push the piston out the top. I would at least check out a couple other bearings while in there and re-torque all the rods and mains.

Engine knock, Ford 660

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pete 23

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