Safety lock outs at work

Had some of my annual safety refresher training tonight at work. One thing covered was safety lock outs. They stated that we were not to remove any lock out put on by a manager or service technician, also not to operate machine unless all lock outs were removed. Told them that the person who put the lock on the lock out should be the only one with a key for it and if the lock outs were installed properly, you couldn't operate the machine. Instructor told me I didn't know what I was talking about. Spent over 40 years in manufacturing and have dealt with many lockouts and OSHA regulations. Some safety program.

You are right, one key. 35 years in industrial maintenance, things got a lot more strict towards the end. But we never ground anyone up in a machine!

Try this one on, we had a mait guy remove a clasp with anothers lock, they were working on a gear box. She reported it and he lost his job. About 3 months later he is back with a no infraction clause. Should never got his job back. He put someone else in danger.

The one key for the person locking out used to be the rule at the machine shop I worked at until they went 24/7. They found that repairs done on another shift to equipment required an authorized person to handle all lockouts that is transfered at shift change because if the person went home for the weekend the machinery was down until the person came back and it could also be they went on vacation. There was some rule used but I cannot tell you where to find it.

We were in port doing some major maintenance on the ship. Anyway, a valve had been removed from the main fuel oil transfer line. Navy protocol is to tag out 2 valves on either side. Some dipshot ignored the tags and started transferring fuel. I forget how many gallons of marine diesel fuel ended up in the bilge, but I do remember holding a fire hose getting ready to head in if the primary hose team wasn't successful with the foam.

Spent 6 years in the Navy and the lock out/tag out program was a HUGE deal for us. For those of us in the engine rooms we did more Tag Outs then anything else because there was no way to put an actual lock on the majority of the valves that had to be closed to isolate a machine. Too every time possible the machine was double isolated (ie at least two valves isolating it from the steam lines) to prevent the possibility of an accident. When double isolation wasn't possible special permission had to be obtained before anything was done.

That said your exactly right, done correctly a properly locked/tagged out machine can NOT be operated, period, and the person in charge of doing the lockout should be the ONLY one with a key. With a tagout, every red tag was signed by the person putting it on, and then cosigned by another person to insure it was in the right place. The ONLY person that could remove that tag was the person actually applying it.

Sounds to me like your safety instructor might be in the ballpark on the issues, but without a little more schooling he's going to strike out and get someone killed one of these days.

Underground miner for over 40 years. Any time anyone worked on a piece of equipment, he locked out the power source. If ten people were going to work on that piece of equipment, everyone of them put his own lock on the lock out device. No one could remove someone else's lock. MSHA regs. Most company rules: grounds for immediate dismissal. Not eligible for rehire put into their personnel record.

When I worked at Monsanto - Port Plastics our molding machines were locked out by both the operator and maintenance, 2 locks.

I read that failure to lockout a machine during maintenance was a top reason for on the job deaths.

I chuckled as I read you post. Also having been in the Navy on a cruiser in A Gang we tagged out equipment constantly! One time underway we needed to get the Old Mans's ok to tag out single valve protection to repair a clay valve for our main space eductor.

Every night the Chief engineer would review the tag out log and call those doing the work to central for status.....good times?

Stumpy EN2

That is the reason an electrician has a padlock in his tool box

Sometimes instructors have the occasional brain fart just like anyone else. But having dealt with OSHA in my former career, I think it's most likely he's suffering from chronic severe brain farts! :lol:

Everyone that works on the machine should have their own locks on it. This is why the metal lock out devices have 6 holes for multiple locks that can be installed on them.

You are correct in what you are saying.

AS a retired electrical design engineer and plant engineer type person I THINK YOU DO KNOW WHAT YOURE TALKING ABOUT FWIW

Our electriciasns each had their own locks and their own keys. That way if they were going to work on say a 480 volt 3 phase motor they would first open the safety switch and lock it in the off open position then go work on the motor etc not worried some pencil necked geek would turn it on and kill them dead.

John T

We also had managers that insisted when a machine in their area was locked out, they would have a key also. I always carried a copy of OSHA regulations and would kindly share that with them every time. I got one fired over his stupidity. But never had a funeral for one of my team either. If work was to be continued on the next shift, the next maint. operator would get a detailed walk thru as to what was/was not done and he signed off that he understood. Then there would be a change of locks with sign off by both parties. Always had a good working relationship with all shifts that responded to our area.

At GM, it was grounds for dissmissal. I saw a maintenance boss get fired over having guys not locked out. They did have a 2nd key, in case the repair went beyond 1 shift. They had a procedure to be followed.

Your instructor is an idiot. When I was working on electrical power systems. I put my lock on it and no one had the key but me. No other locks allowed. Had a manager put his lock on one time. Came time to restore power. Manager no where to be found. Called his home. Kid answers dad is out for the weekend. I got my bolt cutters out lef6t him a nasty note.

If the lock out is done properly. The machine can't be operated.

Your instructor is a idiot. All of this is spelled out in OSHA rules.

The person that installs a lockout is the only one that is authorized to remove it. Most do this by having only one key.
The lockout should isolate the machine from any and all energy sources.

There is a exception to this rule but the procedures and training for the exception have to be done in advance.
It includes such things as......
The employer has chosen who will be authorized to remove lockout devises or have a master key.
The person that installed the devise in not onsite.
A reasonable effort was made to contact said person.
And the person will be told his lockout was removed on his return; before he resumes work.

You are right, one key for each lock. If there is a shift change, there should be a procedure and a shift change meeting to change the lock and custody of the responsible party for the lock out.

Also, putting a lock on a piece of equipment is worthless if it doesnt disable it. It's like putting baricade tape or cones up. People dont pay attention or think that the rules apply to them.

(quoted from post at 02:37:55 09/11/13) Underground miner for over 40 years. Any time anyone worked on a piece of equipment, he locked out the power source. If ten people were going to work on that piece of equipment, everyone of them put his own lock on the lock out device. No one could remove someone else's lock. MSHA regs. Most company rules: grounds for immediate dismissal. Not eligible for rehire put into their personnel record.

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As an underground coal miner, (Maintenance Forman), myself, this is how it is still done. I now also require all MSHA inspectors, to put their own lock, on equipment when they are doing inspections. Pisses some of them off, but hey it's their rule. Besides, I trust no one but myself, and expect EVERYONE, to play by the same rules.

I"ve pretty much always worked industrial construction. You would be surprised how damn dumb some of these safety people really are. I have actually had to stop a safety person from walking under a load and his excuse was he had only worked there for three weeks. Some safety people have the book knowledge but not a clue to what is on site.

I copied the instructions I received from the instructor and OSHA regulations on lock outs. Will give both to the manager today along with name and phone # of company safety officer. Found out with this manager, when you have copies of everything, you get an answer instead of a dumb look. I have taken a safety issue to the safety officer before so the manager knows I'll call him.

All the locks I have used have a master key to bypass the system. Did you know that you can open any Master Lock with only 5 keys. When I had my service station I was offered a set of 25 keys that would open and operate any American car. Ever wonder who has all these master keys well I had them and it only took 5 minutes to get them from other inspectors.
I don't trust any lock for that reason. A friend of mine had a large set of master keys to open most any house lock.
Walt

We call our building maint. guys and they tag out/ lock/out the switch at the machine. Then they put a lock on the main circuit breaker box and the keys go to the building maint office. When bring a aircraft in and have to put power on or off, they come unlock the box and watch you flip your breaker and the box is locked back. When the parts come in for what ever is tagged out, they get the keys out and unlock when the work is done. They keep a detailed log on all items ordered, and what has been disassembled.

I worked maintenance for Kraft foods. Our lockout/tagout program was strict at the time. I lived 50 miles from work and was called back to work once after forgetting to remove my lock. I didn't like having to go back but it was the right way to handle it. When I quit we were over 9 million no lost time hours. In fact the plant have been running 19 years before they had a lost time accident and it wasn't a real serious accident.

Hear is one that will make you think, At ware I use to work I ran 4 draw benches that were computerisied, Each one had the main computer drive were up on the mez over the machines. These cabinets were 16'long x 8'tall x 3'deep 480 3 phase and one for each machine. Now part of my training as an operator was to reset the computer drive if it went down so I could get it back up and running again. Now there were 14 steps to reset the drive witch ment having all the doors open to reset it. Our safety director came in one nite while I was in the middle of a reset and had a fit with me doing this. He said are you lock out certified? No. Then why are you doing this? Its part of my job description to reset the drive. He said you have to have the power supply off and locked out before you open that cabinet to reset the drive. I then asked him how do you reset the computer drive with the power off? Not my problem. You turn the power off now and I will lock it out till the proper personal get here to fix it. Ok with me, BUT you will explain to the higher ups why the machines are down and lost the programming because you shut the power off in the middle of a reset. He pulled the power switch off and shut down all 4 machines and the drives, He put his lock on and walked off. Then things got ugly!!! 1 am is not the time to be calling my department head or the plant manager or the head maintenance and the head of the IT department to tell them what was going on. By 2.30am it was a 3 ring free for all shouting match going on with me and my supervisor with ring side seats to all the bosses going at it. By 4.30am there were 20 people called in early to fix the computer system. 3 days and $150,000 in parts they were running again. It was decided after this mess if I had to open it up to do a reset I was to call maintenance and someone was to come back to open the cabinet doors and step back and let me do the reset then they closed the doors when I was done. And this is an ISO 9001 company. Bandit